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SeaWorld Orlando: General Discussion

Mistreatment and abuse does not just mean physical acts of cruelty by trainers, but psychological and physical effects of being confined in literally a goldfish bowl. Orca and all cetaceans can travel over 100km per day in the wild, so being enclosed in these small concrete tanks is indeed cruel.

They use echo location in the wild all the time, but when they are in captivity, they are relatively quiet as when they do echo-locate, it literally bounces off the walls and can cause pain and discomfort.

SeaWorld have split families apart by separating young from their mothers and moving them to different parks. In the wild, pods of orcas have very strong family ties and stay together. Yes, the males do go off for periods to reproduce with other pods females (they are intelligent enough to not breed with their immediate family !!), but they do come back. This separation causes pain and anguish to the mother and is cruel.

I have also witnessed with my own eyes at SeaWorld, Orca being held in very small holding tanks for very long periods. These holding tanks are tiny to the point where the Orca cant really do anything. Is this cruelty? In my eyes, yes it is.

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I could go on all day with this !!! :) SeaWorld and their trainers do care about their cetaceans, but the artificial conditions that they have to live in have a massive effect on their health and mental stability which is very very cruel.



SeaWorld has to move on from living off the name of Orca, so I predict that the ride offerings at their parks will increase (if the parks aren't sold). They have got to start to diversify and moving into installing more rides is what I think will happen. There is a lot of fake news about SeaWorlds attendance, in that BlackFish started it. It didn't, it was in decline before that, check out the attendance figures from 10 years ago to today. It was declining when the parks didn't install new rides, as soon as they installed a coaster, the attendance rose, before declining again.

Personally, I am torn with regards to SeaWorld. If it hadn't been for a captive Orca, my wife would probably have never developed a deep love for them, which eventually saw her study Marine Biology and now sees her conduct Whale and dolphin surveys to study the numbers of animals in certain areas. However, from a very young age, she knew it was wrong to keep cetaceans in captivity and she still does to this day and she is very vocal with regards to it and I agree with her. They are ambassadors, but its not fair to them to keep them in the conditions they are.

The below image shows why Orca (and other cetaceans), should not be in captivity. This is not SeaWorld, I hasten to add, but is Lolitta at Miami Seaquarium. Is it really fair for an animal which swims many miles each day in the wild to be held in a goldfish bowl like this? This is literally all the space that Lolitta has.... :(

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Sorry for the long post, but cetaceans are very important in my life now, due to learning this from my wife. Would I go to SeaWorld again? No, I would much rather spend time in the wild looking at them through binoculars or on a non evasive whale watching boat.

I actually agree with more of this post than you might expect. I agree completely that Lolita's conditions are unacceptable, I really do feel for her. Her habitat and social grouping are clearly not anywhere near satisfactory.

Cetaceans can travel hundereds of km in the wild, very true. However, the primary reason for this is to find food. The Orcas at SeaWorld don't have to travel to find food, but excercise is important, so they make up for this through high energy behaviours (such as breaching) that are beneficial both mentally and physically. I'm not trying to pretend that the habitats at SeaWorld are the same as the ocean, they clearly aren't and they will never be. As a result, life is different for SeaWorld's animals, but different doesn't always equate to worse.

There is no evidence that SeaWorld's Orcas are psychologically damaged, quite the opposite. Key indicators of mental health in any animal include reproductive drive, animation and of course, longevity. SeaWorld's Orcas reproduce (well, they used to), they are animated and whilst lifespan is a widely debated topic, research by the Alaska Fisheries Science Center shows that the Orcas at SeaWorld have lifespans relatively equal to those in the wild. With this said, it is extremely difficult to quantify the average lifespan of wild Orcas because we haven't been studying populations for long enough but more importantly, there appear to be significant differences between ecotypes.

I agree with you on the direction of the parks as well, there are definitely more rides being installed and this will continue until the park has a more balanced ride & animal offering like what is currently seen at Busch Gardens Tampa.

I have to say that your wife has chosen an absolutely fascinating career path and it is heart warming to learn that places like SeaWorld are affecting people as they have affected me. The CEOs may be all about the money but inspiring people is what drives the passion of the staff that care for these animals every day, after all, the bigger picture is that the oceans are in crisis and if we don't do anything about it, there will be a day when there are no Orcas at all.
 
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There's an old cat saying: "It's better to live one hour as a tiger than a whole lifetime as a worm."
 
Mate, you don't need a degree in anything to know that this is unethical.

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Well there are people with marine biology and veterinary science degrees that would disagree with you as well as some of the most respected animal welfare organisations in the world.


On another note, SeaWorld Orlando have recently welcomed Aku, a Walrus calf rescued by the Alaska Sealife Center. Aku will be growing up in the park's Wild Arctic facility alongside Ginger who was born at SeaWorld Orlando in June.

https://seaworld.com/orlando/blog/welcome-aku/?linkId=44163657
 
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Times change. PETA are definitely on the extreme end of opinion on these things, and Seaworld have done a lot of good work for animal care and rehabilitation. However, public taste for Seaworld's star attraction has been on the turn for decades, and while Blackfish is far from flawless, it's not a work of fiction either. Do Seaworld employ passionate people? Sure. Is it really a soulless corporate entity powered in no small part by the actions of one of the world's most majestic and intelligent creatures, repeatedly jumping in and out of a small pool to 'honour the troops' and/or 'raise awareness'? Yes.

I don't think anyone is going to win you over, MakoMania, given that your very online identity is predicated in celebrating and defending the place, but even as someone who has enjoyed the very pleasant park in the past, the rank hypocrisy is plain to me.
 
Times change. PETA are definitely on the extreme end of opinion on these things, and Seaworld have done a lot of good work for animal care and rehabilitation. However, public taste for Seaworld's star attraction has been on the turn for decades, and while Blackfish is far from flawless, it's not a work of fiction either. Do Seaworld employ passionate people? Sure. Is it really a soulless corporate entity powered in no small part by the actions of one of the world's most majestic and intelligent creatures, repeatedly jumping in and out of a small pool to 'honour the troops' and/or 'raise awareness'? Yes.

I don't think anyone is going to win you over, MakoMania, given that your very online identity is predicated in celebrating and defending the place, but even as someone who has enjoyed the very pleasant park in the past, the rank hypocrisy is plain to me.

You have some truth in what you wrote here, although I do think that it's a pretty wide tendancy to make it seem like shows are all that the animals do. In reality, shows make up an extremely small portion of an animal's day. Play, socialisation and husbandry are far more important and take much more time out of a typical day.
 
I was expecting worse and so were investors as the share price has gone up a tad today. It was always going to be a bad quarter with the continued negative press coverage and hurricanes damaging & temporarily closing more than half of the company's parks.

Good to see that they are increasing marketing spend again, it has not helped that they let it slip in 2017.

There is a great lineup of attractions coming to the parks in 2018 so I hope that this will give them at least some stability next year.

EDIT: Some more information from the conference call today:

-Season pass sales for the company as a whole are up mid single digits, double didgits at SeaWorld San Diego.

-SeaWorld San Antonio grew in attendance and revenue so far in 2017.

-"From Park to Planet" advertising campaign highlighting SeaWorld's conservation efforts soft launched in California in October, will roll out nationally in Q1 2018 after positive response.

-SeaWorld Orlando & San Diego are both in a strong position to grow in 2018 with improved season pass sales and large new ride investments.

-Large roll out of new seasonal events at the Busch Gardens parks and SeaWorld San Antonio in 2018.

-Largest rollout of new waterpark attractions in the company's history in 2018.

-Attendance from the UK is down 28%, almost entirely due to a brexit related downturn in UK visitation to Florida.

-$40 million of cost savings on track for the end of 2018, will be reinvested in new attractions & marketing.

-SeaWorld Orlando is gaining market share from guests living within 300 miles of the park due to greater brand awareness Disney & Universal continuing to raise prices.

-SeaWorld Orlando will recieve major new investments every year for at least the next 5 years in order to help drive domestic (outsise of 300 miles) attendance.
 
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Wow a 28% fall in visitors from the UK is hefty, I'd imagine the figures are similar for Universal and Disney. Thanks to Brexit, UK theme park goers can now enjoy the wonders of Lightwater Valley as opposed to Islands of Adventure! :p
 
I’m not sure if Brexit would have caused a downturn in UK visitation to Florida because apparently, Merlin’s UK Resort Theme Parks have done badly this year as well.
 
It's become a lot more expensive to travel to the states since the pound crashed after Brexit. I was looking to do a quick trip to the Indy 500 this year and the cost literally doubled overnight.
 
It's become a lot more expensive to travel to the states since the pound crashed after Brexit. I was looking to do a quick trip to the Indy 500 this year and the cost literally doubled overnight.

Can confidently say this is absolutely true!

I did a week in FL at start of October and the whole holiday including spends cost 2 of us £5k, but 7 years ago I did 2 weeks in FL at the same time of year for £4.5k. Just couldn't afford 2 full weeks this time around so naturally missed out on doing a lot of things.

It's a real shame.
 
I just wanted to ask a completely random question; to those of you who have visited Orlando/SeaWorld recently, has Mako become very rough/rattly since it opened? Like extremely rattly? Because Robb Alvey recently posted a 4K POV of Mako on his channel, and quite a few of the comments were saying about how shaky the ride is, with one even calling it a "really rough B&M". When I rode it in August 2016, I had 3 rides on it, one in row 2, one in row 6 and one in row 7. All of these were incredibly, incredibly smooth; one of the smoothest coaster experiences I've ever had. That's just a small part of why it's my number 1 coaster, paired with the awesome airtime and great pacing amongst other things. I'll be really sad if it's now very rough. On a more general note, would you guys say that the front or the back provides better airtime on a B&M Hyper? From my Mako rides, I personally thought that all the rows provided outstanding airtime, but row 2 provided the best, although that may have been helped by the fact I had a slightly looser lap bar on row 2.
 
I just wanted to ask a completely random question; to those of you who have visited Orlando/SeaWorld recently, has Mako become very rough/rattly since it opened? Like extremely rattly? Because Robb Alvey recently posted a 4K POV of Mako on his channel, and quite a few of the comments were saying about how shaky the ride is, with one even calling it a "really rough B&M". When I rode it in August 2016, I had 3 rides on it, one in row 2, one in row 6 and one in row 7. All of these were incredibly, incredibly smooth; one of the smoothest coaster experiences I've ever had. That's just a small part of why it's my number 1 coaster, paired with the awesome airtime and great pacing amongst other things. I'll be really sad if it's now very rough. On a more general note, would you guys say that the front or the back provides better airtime on a B&M Hyper? From my Mako rides, I personally thought that all the rows provided outstanding airtime, but row 2 provided the best, although that may have been helped by the fact I had a slightly looser lap bar on row 2.

I just messaged a friend who was at the park yesterday and she said that Mako was running just like opening day. I find it very hard to believe that a modern B&M hyper is anywhere near rough.

Personally, I think row 7 is the best because of how you get whipped over the first drop but as you say, every row is great.
 
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