TBC: SW9 Speculation

[Matt.GC]

Chessington will not get a B&M. Feel free to quote this and ridicule me if such an unlikely event ever occurs.

Whilst the need for Alton to spend millions building a new SW when they could spend a fraction of that sorting the park out, is akin to the park needing a hole in the head - when the time comes, AT needs launches and airtime. So a well designed and unique Mack mega in DF to replace Rita also utilising space behind BK if needed would fit the bill.

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[Tibble]

Last year we were talking about the Intamin Water coaster (I think?) - looking at the video on the site, I dont think it would be powerful enough for an SW

 

[Bert2theSpark]

I really wouldn't want to see something as major as a water coaster at Towers, it just wouldn't justify a £10mill+ price tag, as people would only ride it when it gets hot, you've got to remember that the vast majority of guests don't want to drive home cold and wet for something that wouldn't be held in the same regard as The Smiler or Nemesis.

I'd rather they'd get something simple but major like Tidal Wave and have it be part of a larger area with support rides like flat rides and then theme it really well. Hell, they could even completely rework Katanga Canyon with them bulldozing everything but the existing ride hardware and then open up the area with support rides, new shops and restaurants, as well as new theming and effects on the Mine Train and Rapids to go alongside the new theme.

 

[John_P]

I think due to the pandemic we're in unchartered territories. Major manufacturers maybe needing to diversify their catalogue and pricing options to try and fill up their order books (look at the recently announced 'family' RMC for instance). Who knows how many parks were cancelling their 2022/23 orders last summer preferring to lose deposits instead of struggling to pay for coasters they suddenly can't guarantee a crowd for.

I'd prefer Alton go down the Wickerman route of going for a tried and tested ride concept that they can bend to their ideas and themeing than some 'worlds first' that'll give a 30 second ride time and constant downtime.

 

[WickerwomanH]

I really wouldn't want to see something as major as a water coaster at Towers, it just wouldn't justify a £10mill+ price tag, as people would only ride it when it gets hot, you've got to remember that the vast majority of guests don't want to drive home cold and wet for something that wouldn't be held in the same regard as The Smiler or Nemesis.

I'd rather they'd get something simple but major like Tidal Wave and have it be part of a larger area with support rides like flat rides and then theme it really well. Hell, they could even completely rework Katanga Canyon with them bulldozing everything but the existing ride hardware and then open up the area with support rides, new shops and restaurants, as well as new theming and effects on the Mine Train and Rapids to go alongside the new theme.

To be honest I disagree that a water ride would be unpopular, look at Valhalla! Plus correct me if I'm wrong but I always remember The Flume having consistently big queues and CRR often too. I understand that an SW would be a bigger investment but I definitely think it could be pulled off

 

[Danscott22]

The Flume only really had big queues in decent weather iirc, which this country doesn't always get. I'm not convinced a water coaster would be the smartest move to be honest.

 

[WickerwomanH]

The Flume only really had big queues in decent weather iirc, which this country doesn't always get. I'm not convinced a water coaster would be the smartest move to be honest.

That's fair, I have lots of memories as a kid of doing those quiz questions in the queue over and over having long waits for it haha, but you're right that may have just been the hot days. I'm probably biased because I love the idea of a water coaster, especially as a replacement for CRR after ScrewyLoops made a video on that concept, plus I would love a water ride at Towers that would outshine Valhalla

 

[Jb85]

That's fair, I have lots of memories as a kid of doing those quiz questions in the queue over and over having long waits for it haha, but you're right that may have just been the hot days. I'm probably biased because I love the idea of a water coaster, especially as a replacement for CRR after ScrewyLoops made a video on that concept, plus I would love a water ride at Towers that would outshine Valhalla

Have you a link to the video

 

[WickerwomanH]

Have you a link to the video

There you go!

 

[Jb85]

There you go!

Thanks

 

[Tibble]

I had been on colder days and seen queues for the flume still, Maybe not outside the entrance but still 45 min waits

I guess it would be harder to push a water ride as a SW, unless it was one of many elements on it

 

[s_g_k]

My prediction is on an indoor coaster for SW9.

 

[jon81uk]

If they moved all the rubbish and storage in "coaster corner" (the area behind Flavios Fandango) then I'm pretty sure a new building could go up. Only needs the front themed (same as all the other buildings in that area) but its an area where noise has been an issue so indoors makes a lot of sense.

 

[Jb85]

If they moved all the rubbish and storage in "coaster corner" (the area behind Flavios Fandango) then I'm pretty sure a new building could go up. Only needs the front themed (same as all the other buildings in that area) but its an area where noise has been an issue so indoors makes a lot of sense.

It’s a huge space as well
I remember it when it had actual coasters

For me though gloomy wood seems the best location

 

[Matt N]

In terms of SW9 or whatever Alton’s next major investment turns out to be; I’d look quite closely at whatever Gardaland concocts for next year, as I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if we ended up seeing something similar at Alton Towers to replace Duel. The park could probably do with a new dark ride or indoor coaster (especially the latter), and Duel is often earmarked as being on the chopping block in the same way that Ramses was at Gardaland, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we did see Duel get replaced. Merlin also likes to apply successful concepts to other parks after being piloted at one park, so if whatever dark ride or indoor/outdoor coaster Gardaland opens in 2022 is successful, I wouldn’t be surprised if Alton ended up doing something similar.

I was also thinking; if SW9 is a dark ride or indoor attraction, wouldn’t that in theory mean that planning permission and initial preparations might not need to start as early? DBGT at Thorpe didn’t have its planning permit filed until October 2014, and the ride was originally due to open in March 2016 had it not had reliability issues. I’d also imagine that a dark ride building would generate far less objections and such from locals than a coaster, as dark ride buildings don’t generate noise and aren’t usually considered “eyesores” like coasters often are. So in theory, the planning process should go more smoothly. If SW9 is due to be an indoor attraction, then that might still make 2023 a plausible suggestion for an opening date.

I reckon there’s a fair chance that SW9 could end up an indoor attraction, you know; the park is more in need of indoor attractions than outdoor ones, and I did actually hear a rumbling somewhere that SW9 was due to be “a dark ride in an already used area of the park”. Admittedly, I only heard that in one place, but aside from the RCCGB being told that SW9 “wasn’t wood” in 2019, that’s the only thing I’ve heard.

The RCCGB comment would suggest that a plan of some description was decided upon prior to COVID, so it wouldn’t surprise me if SW9 opens sooner than many are expecting. It was said at the recent Chessington consultation that now Merlin is under private ownership, they’re more keen to invest heavily into the parks than they were before in order to maintain visitor numbers and encourage repeat visits among those who might have visited for the first time during COVID. Even if the ride was altered due to COVID happening, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they had a set idea of what SW9’s basic description was going to be prior to 2020. It was said that the first tenders for SW9 were being submitted when Wicker Man was still being constructed, so that implies that they might have been fairly far down the road in terms of planning SW9 by the time COVID hit.

 

[Matt.GC]

It was said at the recent Chessington consultation that now Merlin is under private ownership, they’re more keen to invest heavily into the parks

I'd imagine the person who said this at this meeting was Jerry, the town drunk. The Merlin representatives, the local council planning committee and the members of the public all erupted into 2 minutes of laughter before giving Jerry a round of applause for giving them a good laugh before signalling for security to remove him from the room so they could get back to their real world consultation meeting.

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[Jb85]

In terms of SW9 or whatever Alton’s next major investment turns out to be; I’d look quite closely at whatever Gardaland concocts for next year, as I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if we ended up seeing something similar at Alton Towers to replace Duel. The park could probably do with a new dark ride or indoor coaster (especially the latter), and Duel is often earmarked as being on the chopping block in the same way that Ramses was at Gardaland, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we did see Duel get replaced. Merlin also likes to apply successful concepts to other parks after being piloted at one park, so if whatever dark ride or indoor/outdoor coaster Gardaland opens in 2022 is successful, I wouldn’t be surprised if Alton ended up doing something similar.

I was also thinking; if SW9 is a dark ride or indoor attraction, wouldn’t that in theory mean that planning permission and initial preparations might not need to start as early? DBGT at Thorpe didn’t have its planning permit filed until October 2014, and the ride was originally due to open in March 2016 had it not had reliability issues. I’d also imagine that a dark ride building would generate far less objections and such from locals than a coaster, as dark ride buildings don’t generate noise and aren’t usually considered “eyesores” like coasters often are. So in theory, the planning process should go more smoothly. If SW9 is due to be an indoor attraction, then that might still make 2023 a plausible suggestion for an opening date.

I reckon there’s a fair chance that SW9 could end up an indoor attraction, you know; the park is more in need of indoor attractions than outdoor ones, and I did actually hear a rumbling somewhere that SW9 was due to be “a dark ride in an already used area of the park”. Admittedly, I only heard that in one place, but aside from the RCCGB being told that SW9 “wasn’t wood” in 2019, that’s the only thing I’ve heard.

The RCCGB comment would suggest that a plan of some description was decided upon prior to COVID, so it wouldn’t surprise me if SW9 opens sooner than many are expecting. It was said at the recent Chessington consultation that now Merlin is under private ownership, they’re more keen to invest heavily into the parks than they were before in order to maintain visitor numbers and encourage repeat visits among those who might have visited for the first time during COVID. Even if the ride was altered due to COVID happening, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they had a set idea of what SW9’s basic description was going to be prior to 2020. It was said that the first tenders for SW9 were being submitted when Wicker Man was still being constructed, so that implies that they might have been fairly far down the road in terms of planning SW9 by the time COVID hit.

Your probably not far wrong when you say SW9 has already been planned m. Don’t these projects take 4-5 years to plan and execute?
My view on this though is that the original SW9 project may be scrapped in place of a lower budget ride due to COVID and revisited later on.

And also, I don’t see a dark ride happening.... not st the moment. SW9 may well have been designed to be one, but I can’t see any park kicking off a major capex project for and my indoor ride while covid is still around. What happens if new variants mean we’re still in a restriction position upon opening?

 

[Matt N]

I'd imagine the person who said this at this meeting was Jerry, the town drunk. The Merlin representatives, the local council planning committee and the members of the public all erupted into 2 minutes of laughter before giving Jerry a round of applause for giving them a good laugh before signalling for security to remove him from the room so they could get back to their real world consultation meeting.

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I’d like to assure you that I’m not making this up; it was apparently one of the Chessington/Merlin representatives who said it. One of the key quotes regarding the Project Amazon project was:

This investment is critical to the Resort’s recovery from the impacts to the business from the COVID-19 pandemic.

And apparently, the message from the Chessington staff in the room implied that investment is coming to all of the parks in order to help bolster and maintain visitor numbers. Merlin wants to capitalise on the pent-up demand following lockdown, as well as the new visitors who might have visited for the first time during COVID, by investing heavily to encourage repeat visits and hotel stays. As the company is now under private ownership, they are now able to invest heavily into all of their properties without needing to answer to shareholders, and the message in the room at the Chessington consultation was that Merlin very much intends to do this over the next few years.

COVID may have happened, but the other thing that has happened is that Merlin has gone private. This happened at the end of 2019, and as much as it might seem like private ownership would make little impact on the face of it, I think we are already seeing the impacts of this. Merlin don’t have shareholders to answer to anymore, so they can see more long-term, and invest heavily without suffering the consequences with their shareholders.

It’s no coincidence that Merlin’s investment strategies and general operations of the parks changed somewhat when the company was floated on the stock market. When a company goes public, it’s very difficult to justify investing heavily when success isn’t guaranteed, because the shareholders want instant gratification for any investment made, big or small. Now that the company is private, Merlin haven’t got that to worry about; the companies owning Merlin are very much in it for the long-term vision, and they can accept one short-term blip if it means that the parks are generating more money in the long-term.

Think about it; as much as me saying that Merlin will invest more heavily post-COVID seems ludicrously optimistic to most of you, things that have happened this year, like hugely extended opening hours, an events calendar rammed with events and new entertainment options might have seemed ludicrously optimistic to many even last year, yet they still happened.

I think that Merlin’s private ownership will have a really positive long-term impact on the park, personally.

 

[Matt N]

Your probably not far wrong when you say SW9 has already been planned m. Don’t these projects take 4-5 years to plan and execute?
My view on this though is that the original SW9 project may be scrapped in place of a lower budget ride due to COVID and revisited later on.

And also, I don’t see a dark ride happening.... not st the moment. SW9 may well have been designed to be one, but I can’t see any park kicking off a major capex project for and my indoor ride while covid is still around. What happens if new variants mean we’re still in a restriction position upon opening?

You say that, but Gardaland has green lighted a major investment for 2022 that is likely to be at least partially indoors. I’d imagine the green light probably wouldn’t have happened before COVID hit based on the fact that construction has only just started, so I don’t necessarily think Merlin cancelled all planned projects when COVID hit. With Merlin showing keenness to continue with CAPEX investment (Gardaland 2022, Chessington 2023), I wouldn’t be at all surprised if whatever was originally planned for SW9 does still come in 2023, or possibly 2024.
EDIT: Sorry for double posting!

 

[jmc]

Whatever we end up with, Its probable that it will be a scaled down version of what it was originally intended to be, given the current circumstances.

Which is a shame really, and I do hope I’m wrong. It always seems to be the case of ‘here’s what you could have had’ at Towers.


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