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TBC: SW9 Speculation

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Nemesis is still very popular. I get it's not as popular as the newer coasters but there's a number of things to consider.

It's throughput is one of the most consistent on park. It just eats queues, always has done always will.

Forbidden Valley is quiet early and late in the day. It does generate queues in the middle of the day but if you're an occasional visitor and you look at the app, you'd probably take the opportunity to get yourself to Wickerman and The Smiler as they quieten down at that time of day.

The fact that Nemesis can still generate 30 mins + queues with great throughput after 27 years of operation is quite remarkable when you think about it and m a testament to how great a coaster it is.

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I'm pretty sure oblivion on 2 stations on maximum capacity absolutely destroys Nemesis throughput. But unfortunately they never run that ride how they should
 
Ethan said:
I'm pretty sure oblivion on 2 stations on maximum capacity absolutely destroys Nemesis throughput. But unfortunately they never run that ride how they should
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It was on two stations last Sunday, and I'm pretty sure the queue time was around 60 mins most of the day. We rode later in the day when the queue was just 20 mins.
 
Heidi said:
I also don't think it's valid to say that Nemesis is more popular with enthusiasts than the GP, it's normally the favourite of my non enthusiast friends
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That’s interesting; I think it’s only my dad out of the 4 of us who has Nemesis as a favourite.

My mum and I both have Wicker Man as a favourite, and my sister always rated The Smiler as her favourite, actually saying that Nemesis was down there with Rita as one of her least favourites among the big 7! My sister said that she found Nemesis “very boring”, and is mystified as to why enthusiasts like it so much.

Alton Towers’ own feedback surveys have even said that it’s Smiler and Wicker Man that are rated the highest by guests as opposed to Nemesis.
 
I suspect if you flipped the tables and had The Smiler built in '94, and Nemesis in '13, then the feedback surveys would indicate Nemesis as higher rated than The Smiler. The newer the product, the more hype and general positivity there is for a ride in most circumstances from non-enthusiasts.

I'll be surprised if the cycle isn't repeated if/when SW9 opens unless it's an entirely different product.
 
Danny said:
I suspect if you flipped the tables and had The Smiler built in '94, and Nemesis in '13, then the feedback surveys would indicate Nemesis as higher rated than The Smiler. The newer the product, the more hype and general positivity there is for a ride in most circumstances from non-enthusiasts.

I'll be surprised if the cycle isn't repeated if/when SW9 opens unless it's an entirely different product.
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On the flip side; I’d argue that that isn’t necessarily a rule of thumb.

Look at somewhere like Thorpe, for example; I’d wager that Swarm isn’t Thorpe’s highest rated coaster among non-enthusiasts, even though it’s the newest. DBGT is also far from Thorpe’s most popular ride, although that is admittedly a dark ride. That title would probably go to either Stealth or Saw.

Also, look at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. Big One is the same age as Nemesis, and that must surely top the popularity stakes, comfortably beating out the newer coasters like Icon and Infusion. Or even things like Valhalla.

I also seem to remember hearing that Thirteen didn’t have the same popularity as Smiler and WM when new; Alton did a ride survey the year Thirteen opened, and Nemesis still came out on top. Yes, Thirteen may have attracted many guests, but it wasn’t highly rated and popular among non-enthusiasts like Smiler and Wicker Man are.
 
Matt N said:
On the flip side; that isn’t necessarily a rule of thumb.

Look at somewhere like Thorpe, for example; I’d wager that Swarm isn’t Thorpe’s highest rated coaster among non-enthusiasts, even though it’s the newest. DBGT is also far from Thorpe’s most popular ride, although that is admittedly a dark ride. That title would probably go to either Stealth or Saw.
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That's because The Swarm is a totally different kettle of fish compared to the rest of Thorpe's line-up; it's nowhere near as erratic or intense as the other major thrill coasters. When it comes to DBGT, there's no surprise the satisfaction isn't high. Long queue times, average breakdowns, ride availability, and even the inconsistent experience itself fails to deliver.

Matt N said:
Also, look at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. Big One is the same age as Nemesis, and that must surely top the popularity stakes, comfortably beating out the newer coasters like Icon and Infusion. Or even things like Valhalla.
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The Big One is the park's headline attraction, and likely always will be; it's the tallest coaster in the country. They could have built a Taron clone rather than Icon and it'd still fall short on popularity rankings.
 
Tibble said:
I love the swarm - Would be chuffed if AT built a wing coaster
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I would love an AT wing coaster too, actually; maybe a launched wing coaster like Thunderbird at Holiday World would work?

Seeing as one is rumoured to be on the table for Chessington’s 2023 coaster, I certainly wouldn’t rule out a B&M wing coaster.
 
Matt N said:
I would love an AT wing coaster too, actually; maybe a launched wing coaster like Thunderbird at Holiday World would work?

Seeing as one is rumoured to be on the table for Chessington’s 2023 coaster, I certainly wouldn’t rule out a B&M wing coaster.
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I would. Surely if Thorpe have a "thrill" wing coaster and Chessington have a family one, there is no reason for AT to get one too?

Also I would expect the width needed would make it hard to fit one into AT anyway.
 
Going for something out of left field here......what about the hotly anticipated Axis Coaster by S&S. That would be something incredibly unique which might attract Towers given in the past they have liked to have world firsts.

I really don't see them going for a wing coaster personally.
 
Benjsh said:
Going for something out of left field here......what about the hotly anticipated Axis Coaster by S&S. That would be something incredibly unique which might attract Towers given in the past they have liked to have world firsts.

I really don't see them going for a wing coaster personally.
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I seem to remember hearing that a park has reportedly already bought an example of the S&S Axis coaster for 2022, so they wouldn’t get a world’s first. But they might be able to bag a Europe’s or UK’s first with that one, dependant on where the first model was sold to.

An S&S Axis would be very cool and different to anything else they have, and might also offer some interesting theming opportunities, but it might be a bit too low capacity for Alton Towers.
 
Matt N said:
I seem to remember hearing that a park has reportedly already bought an example of the S&S Axis coaster for 2022, so they wouldn’t get a world’s first. But they might be able to bag a Europe’s or UK’s first with that one, dependant on where the first model was sold to.

An S&S Axis would be very cool and different to anything else they have, and might also offer some interesting theming opportunities, but it might be a bit too low capacity for Alton Towers.
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Tbf I haven't followed any of the latest gossip on them and if they had managed to enhance capacity. Didn't know they had sold one either. That's interesting then....

I think a manufacturer out of left field is fairly likely for SW9 given finances aren't the best across the company right now.
 
Benjsh said:
Tbf I haven't followed any of the latest gossip on them and if they had managed to enhance capacity. Didn't know they had sold one either. That's interesting then....

I think a manufacturer out of left field is fairly likely for SW9 given finances aren't the best across the company right now.
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Given that B&M are reportedly in the conversation for Chessington’s new coaster, which I don’t think any of us had seen coming, I wouldn’t rule anything out…
 
Matt N said:
Given that B&M are reportedly in the conversation for Chessington’s new coaster, which I don’t think any of us had seen coming, I wouldn’t rule anything out…
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I honestly would take those rumours with a pinch of salt. They were thrown in the hat with about 4 other manufacturers.

A B&M at Chessington, however awesome that would be, seems incredibly unlikely to me.
 
Benjsh said:
I honestly would take those rumours with a pinch of salt. They were thrown in the hat with about 4 other manufacturers.

A B&M at Chessington, however awesome that would be, seems incredibly unlikely to me.
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For what is effectively a family coaster, I can’t see them going for something as we’ll structure and engineered as a B&M

Hope I’m wrong though, would be an interesting project
 
Jb85 said:
For what is effectively a family coaster, I can’t see them going for something as we’ll structure and engineered as a B&M

Hope I’m wrong though, would be an interesting project
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The ride is due to have a 1.4m height restriction according to the park themselves, so it may not end up being as “family” as we expect…

On the topic of SW9, though; I think some form of new launch coaster would be excellent. I have visions in my head of a well-themed, rockwork-laden Intamin Blitz akin to Taron or VelociCoaster working really well at Towers. Or something like an RMC. Basically, I’d really like something that gives the park a real airtime machine, because as much as they have quite a few rides that have airtime, there’s currently no coaster at Towers that strongly focuses on it.

Alternatively, something that would still be a coaster while also satisfying the thirst for a water or dark ride that many have, like a water coaster or indoor coaster, would also work well, in my opinion.
 
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