Coronavirus

[RoyJess]

may I point out that NASA says there is a 0.042% chance of an asteroid hitting Earth. CDCGov states that there is a 0.026 % chance of dying from Covid 19.

Whilst the unvaccinated are being treated in hospital, this means that many people like my wife who pre-covid were getting essential routine hospital appointments have not been seen by a hospital specialist for over a year. Many people are dying as a result of not being able to get hospital appointments, having essential regular check ups as well as routine treatment.

 

[jon81uk]

Remember when it was only the vulnerable and elderly who were going to require vaccination?

Don't recall that ever being said. They were priority but not the only ones getting it. Thats why the government bought up 100million vaccine doses.

Oh, and as RoyJess mentioned helmets, may I point out that NASA says there is a 0.042% chance of an asteroid hitting Earth. CDCGov states that there is a 0.026 % chance of dying from Covid 19. Therefore, based on the odds, shouldn’t anyone wearing a mask also be wearing a helmet??

That might be the odds of it hitting Earth, but what specific part? I would imagine the odds of the asteroid hitting me is much lower.
Also the mask is to stop me breathing covid OUT not in.

 

[Rob]

Those who are medically exempt from taking the vaccine aside, are we saying that other people should be ostracised from day to day life as a result of not wishing to take a Vaccine that could potentially pose them more risks than the Virus itself ever would? Let’s also leave the whole selfish argument at the door as not everyone is refusing it due to selfish reasons. For example, someone told me that they won’t be taking the vaccine because they would rather someone else in the world who is more vulnerable to the virus have their dosage. How very selfish of them!

It’s also worth noting that not everyone who wishes to not take the vaccine is a crazy tin hat donning conspiracy theorist loon.

Let’s also not forget that these drug companies are not liable for any potential side effects and deaths (of which there have been many) and the long-term effects of which are largely unknown. Should someone otherwise fit and health really be coerced in to getting it? Remember when it was only the vulnerable and elderly who were going to require vaccination?

I find it crazy how the whole thing has become so politicised. As a nation, we’ve been manipulated and divided on so many different issues over the past few years- Left, right, leave, stay, race, class, culture, gender, sexuality and the list goes on. Division based on someone’s personal health choices is something that doesn’t sit right with me at all.

Oh, and as RoyJess mentioned helmets, may I point out that NASA says there is a 0.042% chance of an asteroid hitting Earth. CDCGov states that there is a 0.026 % chance of dying from Covid 19. Therefore, based on the odds, shouldn’t anyone wearing a mask also be wearing a helmet??

As Prof. Van Tam said yesterday, if there were going to be any long term side effects of these vaccines then it is extremely likely that we would have seen early signs of these by now, and we have not. I trust the scientific and medical experts far more than I trust any lay person when it comes to these matters. They know what they are doing and what they are looking out for. It is not as if vaccines are new, and coronavirus vaccines were being worked on prior to this pandemic, there just was not much funding available so progress was slow.

But we do know that there are long term and serious side effects of Coivd-19, even in people who were young and healthy prior to infection and even in people who had a mild disease initially.

If everyone had the view that we should not be taking these vaccines then we would probably still be locked down to some degree, and be facing a full lockdown this winter and in the winters to come. I guess that's preferable to you is it? Fair enough if so!

I also do not recall it ever being said that the vaccines would only be for the elderly and vulnerable. First priority, yes, but I have always been under the impression that I would get access to the vaccine.

 

[Alsty]

NASA says there is a 0.042% chance of an asteroid hitting Earth. CDCGov states that there is a 0.026 % chance of dying from Covid 19

Be careful when you throw numbers around.

0.026% of 68 million (the UK population) is 17,680. There have been over 129,000 deaths, suggesting the death rate cannot possibly be that low. Even if everybody in the UK had Coronavirus, it would be at least seven times higher than that (0.18%). In reality, not every person in the country has had Coronavirus so the death rate will be even higher than that. The official statistics put it at about 2.2% (although it's true that not every positive case will be detected through testing so that figure can be overinflated).

The thing about people who make claims such as "it's only got a death rate of x%" is they forget that for every one person that dies, many others are hospitalised, and even small percentages scale up when you multiply across millions of people. From the UK Coronavirus data:

• 491,098 patients admitted to hospital with COVID-19
• 129,515 deaths within 28 days of positive test

which gives a ratio of approximately 4:1. If we assume a 1% death rate, it would mean without any protections (vaccines, social restrictions etc) that around 680,000 people in the UK would die and around 2.7 million people would be hospitalised. That would lead to healthcare systems being overwhelmed and further deaths, including people with unrelated healthcare conditions going untreated.

are we saying that other people should be ostracised from day to day life as a result of not wishing to take a Vaccine that could potentially pose them more risks than the Virus itself ever would?

This is the kind of calculation that I entrust to scientists who have access to all the data. They have been clear that the benefits outweigh the risks. You're more likely to die or get ill from the virus than the vaccine.

 

[SirDossa]

You all make some valid points.

With regards to the hospitalisations and number of deaths recorded,I think it’s fair to say that the official data is misleading to say the least. For a start, reports are already being made that up to a quarter of Covid patients had other causes for Hospital admission. As for the number of deaths recorded and the way they are reported,I’m not sure we will ever know the actual number of deaths caused solely by Covid 19 infection.

With regards to the calculations made by independent Sage, how are the predicted 100,000 cases a day looking right about now?

Please note that I’m not of the opinion that people shouldn’t take the vaccine. I believe in a person’s freedom of choice and would never tell someone that they shouldn’t get the vaccine and equally would never tell someone that they should.

My main issue sits with the whole idea of Vaccine Passports. The very thought of it sets a worrying precedent ( on a worldwide level ) and I can’t help but think there are many other areas that are far more deserving of the attention. The cancer crisis for one? What sort of timescale do you envisage that these Passports would have *if* they are rolled out? Bearing in mind that there are already rumours that the contracts could be extended until July 2023.

Oh, and to answer your questions about lockdowns Rob, funnily enough I don’t ever wish to be locked down again but that’s a debate for another day!

 

[BigT]

I’ve had to cut my sailing holiday in Devon slightly short as despite hardly setting foot on land for two weeks both the Mrs and daughter have both tested positive for COVID this week.
My wife has had two AZ vaccines but only got the second one just before the holiday, my daughter is 14 so hasn’t had a vaccine, both are showing mild symptoms but both feel quite unwell.
I had my second AZ vaccine about 5 weeks ago and so far no symptoms and still testing negative.
Goes to show even with the best efforts it’s still out there and it will find you regardless of efforts taken to avoid it.

 

[Craig]

I’ve had to cut my sailing holiday in Devon slightly short as despite hardly setting foot on land for two weeks both the Mrs and daughter have both tested positive for COVID this week.
My wife has had two AZ vaccines but only got the second one just before the holiday, my daughter is 14 so hasn’t had a vaccine, both are showing mild symptoms but both feel quite unwell.
I had my second AZ vaccine about 5 weeks ago and so far no symptoms and still testing negative.
Goes to show even with the best efforts it’s still out there and it will find you regardless of efforts taken to avoid it.

All the best to the family BigT, hopefully a bit of resting up and they'll be back to full strength in no time

 

[Rojo]

Those who are medically exempt from taking the vaccine aside, are we saying that other people should be ostracised from day to day life as a result of not wishing to take a Vaccine that could potentially pose them more risks than the Virus itself ever would? Let’s also leave the whole selfish argument at the door as not everyone is refusing it due to selfish reasons. For example, someone told me that they won’t be taking the vaccine because they would rather someone else in the world who is more vulnerable to the virus have their dosage. How very selfish of them!

It’s also worth noting that not everyone who wishes to not take the vaccine is a crazy tin hat donning conspiracy theorist loon.

Let’s also not forget that these drug companies are not liable for any potential side effects and deaths (of which there have been many) and the long-term effects of which are largely unknown. Should someone otherwise fit and health really be coerced in to getting it? Remember when it was only the vulnerable and elderly who were going to require vaccination?

I find it crazy how the whole thing has become so politicised. As a nation, we’ve been manipulated and divided on so many different issues over the past few years- Left, right, leave, stay, race, class, culture, gender, sexuality and the list goes on. Division based on someone’s personal health choices is something that doesn’t sit right with me at all.

Oh, and as RoyJess mentioned helmets, may I point out that NASA says there is a 0.042% chance of an asteroid hitting Earth. CDCGov states that there is a 0.026 % chance of dying from Covid 19. Therefore, based on the odds, shouldn’t anyone wearing a mask also be wearing a helmet??

That's the odds from dying from it, what about the odds off passing it on to a vulnerable person or the odds of long covid or the unknown long-term damage of letting a virus. There's more to this than the young I'm alright Jack attitude.

I don't disagree with anyone's right to refuse a vaccine but in doing so you'd have to expect some push back from the venue's demanding double vaccine, requiring vaccines to travel (not a new thing) or being required to be vaccinated for certain jobs.

I also agree the idea of blindly trusting a vaccine isn't good but this was the best vaccine you're ever going to get. Globally funded, no red tape and piggy backing of years of research. People still throw thalidomide in the mix like we're still in the 1960's. That and having a crappy reaction to COVID made up my mind for me.

Whilst the agreement to not be liable for the after effects is slightly worrying it was necessary to get vaccines out the door. Even then companies are basing their reputation on this vaccine, if a huge percentage started dying from the Pfizer vaccine in 2 years time, Pfizer is going to go bust, who'd trust their products after that? Who'd even heard of Aztrazeneca, Biotech, Moderna, etc...until last year? There's still more incentive to get the vaccine right, surely.

Not wanting to rain on your whole parade @SirDossa, it's always good to see the opposite view, that's how we all learn and grown as a community

@BigT hope you and the family are ok and everyone recovers quickly!

 

[Danza91]

It does concern me the Government have taken a coercive approach to getting more people jabbed, especially with uptake being reasonably high (lowest being roughly 65% in 18-24s). I'm all for vaccines but through coercion rather than education I don't agree with. I can already see how it's putting some people's mental health on edge and only adding to this country's current problem of divisiveness. However, my bet is uptake will increase and vaccine passports won't come in. Mission accomplished? Yes. Ethical? I'm not sure.

 

[monkeyboy]

Don't recall that ever being said. They were priority but not the only ones getting it. Thats why the government bought up 100million vaccine doses.


That might be the odds of it hitting Earth, but what specific part? I would imagine the odds of the asteroid hitting me is much lower.
Also the mask is to stop me breathing covid OUT not in.

By the middle of February, if things go well and with a fair wind in our sails, we expect to have offered the first vaccine dose to everyone in the four top priority groups identified by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation.

That means vaccinating all residents in a care home for older adults and their carers, everyone over the age of 70, all frontline health and social care workers, and everyone who is clinically extremely vulnerable.

If we succeed in vaccinating all those groups, we will have removed huge numbers of people from the path of the virus.

And of course, that will eventually enable us to lift many of the restrictions we have endured for so long.

I must stress that even if we achieve this goal, there remains a time lag of two to three weeks from getting a jab to receiving immunity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Alsty]

From Sky News

"Our target is that by September to have offered all the adult population a first dose," Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab says.

This was on 17 January 2021, less than two weeks after that statement by the Prime Minister.

 

[pluk]

Let’s also leave the whole selfish argument at the door as not everyone is refusing it due to selfish reasons. For example, someone told me that they won’t be taking the vaccine because they would rather someone else in the world who is more vulnerable to the virus have their dosage. How very selfish of them!

Not deliberately selfish, but pretty damn stupid. This makes about as much sense as me leaving half of my roast for the starving of the world and putting it straight into the recycling bin.

 

[Matt N]

From Sky News

"Our target is that by September to have offered all the adult population a first dose," Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab says.

This was on 17 January 2021, less than two weeks after that statement by the Prime Minister.

Well, they’ve comfortably exceeded that target, as I believe all of the adult population has been eligible for a first dose for a good couple of weeks now!

 

[BigT]

All the best to the family BigT, hopefully a bit of resting up and they'll be back to full strength in no time

Thanks for the concern it is appreciated.

My daughter has more or less brushed it off now and is almost back to her normal self however it has knocked the wife for six, she is slowly recovering and her temperature has started to come down now at least, it goes to show even with two vaccines it can still be a nasty virus.
I have tested every day for the last 3 days and am still negative which surprises me as I have obviously had a lot of exposure to the virus in the last week.
Its a strange one as most of the stuff you read says you need around 15 minutes of exposure to catch it which is definitely not the case for the family, it had to be a glancing blow for them but I have obviously had longer than 15 minutes as I share a bed with the wife still even after 25 years together.
I still don’t think we completely know yet about how this virus transfers itself between humans, we have been so careful over the last 18 months and it still found us in the end.

 

[Rick]

All the best @BigT, I have heard similar stories whereby people have done everything conceivably possible to avoid it but have got it by means unknown.

 

[WillPS]

Not deliberately selfish, but pretty damn stupid. This makes about as much sense as me leaving half of my roast for the starving of the world and putting it straight into the recycling bin.

There was a particularly nasty teacher at secondary school who would hover around the tray collection table and have a go at people who didn't finish their drinks because there were people dying in Africa because they don't have enough clean water.

As if Severn Trent would divert what they had if only people didn't waste it.

Silly cow.

I am almost certain the "not selfish" person in question here is actually being completely selfish, it's a pretty thin argument as you have pointed out.

 

[BigT]

Back to normal again in our house, both Mrs and daughter are feeling well again and I’m still testing negative so after 10 days we can go outside again.
A strange feeling really, after being careful for so long it still managed to find its way into our household but at least it was after we had had the vaccines.

 

[GaryH]

Numbers going up quite a bit in our hospital of people being admitted with Covid. Age range is a lot lower this time along with quite a few 18-25 year olds. Also seeing more younger people in ICU.

In terms of those being admitted who have had the vaccine, it’s actually around 50:50. The main difference though is those who had the vaccine are not going in to ICU and their length of stay is shorter than those who have not.

 

[GaryH]

Small numbers at the moment but looks like we might have a new kid on the block

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ound-in-south-africa-has-concerning-mutations

 

[MattyH]

Couldn't get anywhere near the actual article from the number of pop ups. As long as we continue to move on with life now and don't go back into restrictions. Otherwise there was no point in vacinations.