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Duel: The Haunted House Actually Strikes Back - Refurb Incoming

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immelmanloop said:
To further this, if I remember correctly, Rita's launch is run by a PC on 98 or XP, and that still works perfectly well.
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You are correct. Windows XP. I am not sure if it is the monitoring software or partial control of the launch equipment is carried out by the Windows Machine. I would imagine a bit of both, with PLCs picking up the slack. With PLCs obviously fully controlling the block side of things.
rita-6_001.jpg
Source: Towers Times.

Unlike the consumer market, there is not the need or the pressure to upgrade all the time to the latest and greatest. There is absolutely no point.

Is it just the control system for the guns that is run by ME on Duel does anyone know?
 
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rob666 said:
I think in the grand scheme of things, the Corkscrew was far more important to the park than Duel.
Duel is a rehash of a former ride, that wasn't done with much imagination or interactivity.
I can't see the fuss, it isn't a closure, it is just another makeover.
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I think we all hope its more than that.
Corkscrew was definitely more important, but did get the send off. I just struggle to believe they will close this before scarefest when it's the only haunted themed attraction 😆
 
Jb85 said:
I think we all hope its more than that.
Corkscrew was definitely more important, but did get the send off. I just struggle to believe they will close this before scarefest when it's the only haunted themed attraction 😆
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Closing it before Scarefest would give them a lot more time to work though.
 
DistortAMG said:
You are correct. Windows XP. I am not sure if it is the monitoring software or partial control of the launch equipment is carried out by the Windows Machine. I would imagine a bit of both, with PLCs picking up the slack. With PLCs obviously fully controlling the block side of things.
rita-6_001.jpg
Source: Towers Times.

Unlike the consumer market, there is not the need or the pressure to upgrade all the time to the latest and greatest. There is absolutely no point.

Is it just the control system for the guns that is run by ME on Duel does anyone know?
Click to expand...
People see the computer screen and think it's running the ride. This isn't the case. It's never been the case but people still make these claims.

Every modern ride is controlled by PLC with the computer providing diagnostics only. Older rides typically by relays instead of PLCs but using the same principles.

A desktop computer couldn't even come close to the required level of redundancy and real time processing required for a safety critical system.

Maybe a PC could run the guns or scoring system on Duel as that's not a safety critical system but if the blasters are going I suspect that'll be in the bin by the end of the week.
 
Alsty said:
People see the computer screen and think it's running the ride. This isn't the case. It's never been the case but people still make these claims.

Every modern ride is controlled by PLC with the computer providing diagnostics only. Older rides typically by relays instead of PLCs but using the same principles.

A desktop computer couldn't even come close to the required level of redundancy and real time processing required for a safety critical system.

Maybe a PC could run the guns or scoring system on Duel as that's not a safety critical system but if the blasters are going I suspect that'll be in the bin by the end of the week.
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I agree. I am pretty sure parts of the hydualic launch systems are run by Windows though. Ancillary systems though. Because hydraulic launches are so complex they have many systems. All the safety critical systems and main launch are PLC though yeah. Alongside the actual ride being run by PLC.

A desktop computer can provide the required speed and processing for safety critical systems. But not when running Windows, it has to use a different OS, but they can do it. They do not have the level of redundancy built in though as they are not designed for that, they are designed for desktops. But they do have the power required to do it, many, many times over. But Windows is not, by design a real time operating system. But they do exist for x86 computers. There was even a branch of Windows CE which is an embedded OS that is real time and has been deployed into safety critical systems in cars such as braking system control. That is a discussion for another topic though.
 
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immelmanloop said:
To further this, if I remember correctly, Rita's launch is run by a PC on 98 or XP, and that still works perfectly well.
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Worth noting that this isn't quite correct - no ride itself will be controlled by a windows PC, but rather PLCs, which are inherently reliable and rated for safety critical applications like this.

Where computers are involved, such as the Stealth PC, they'll just be ancillary 'monitors', or HMIs (Human-Machine Interfaces), to use the swanky term. They'll look at information being processed by the PLC, and decisions it's making, and simply process this and log/display it in a way that can be interpreted by engineers. Also used to transmit such data as needed (I believe the Stealth PC can send info off to Intamin as needed), rather than risk putting the safety critical infrastructure online where it will be vulnerable.

Edit: rookie error, didn't notice the whole additional page of posts :sweatsmile:. But yeh, what I've said has mostly been said already.
 
DistortAMG said:
You are correct. Windows XP. I am not sure if it is the monitoring software or partial control of the launch equipment is carried out by the Windows Machine. I would imagine a bit of both, with PLCs picking up the slack. With PLCs obviously fully controlling the block side of things.
rita-6_001.jpg
Source: Towers Times.

Unlike the consumer market, there is not the need or the pressure to upgrade all the time to the latest and greatest. There is absolutely no point.

Is it just the control system for the guns that is run by ME on Duel does anyone know?
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I like the name of the programme. 'rocket coaster - control studio', did Intamin originally call the model rocket? In fact wasn't it Rita's code name?
 
DistortAMG said:
This is not uncommon though. There is even a company called Nixsys who specialise in selling brand new MS-DOS, Windows 98, ME, XP machines, complete with brand new (old) hardware.

There are many many reasons why you would need to run legacy hardware and software. Aslong as the machine is not connected to the internet (which most of them are not in industrial settings) you do not have to worry about security.

At work we have just purchased a brand new Windows 98, Pentium 3 machine to control a piece of industrial machinery. The software works fine, reliable and robust. There is no point spending hundreds of thousands to re write the software to make it work on a modern OS, where we will get no real benefits. Much easier to buy a legacy system and run it that way..

If it works do not fix it. I suspect that is the case here with Duel. As you can almost class ride hardware in the same spectrum as industrial equipment.
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Let me introduce you to…virtual machines…

Problem with old hardware is it doesn’t last, then getting replacement parts/software is even more difficult and often doesn’t have the resilience of modern hardware

Next problem is the people who are maintaining Windows NT machines, or understand any custom software are usually pushing or in retirement at this point.

That’s a risk. And 9/10. Expensive…


The idea because industrial kit is “air gapped” it’s not vulnerable to security issues is for the birds…

As can be seen on the Rita PC its standard HMI software using Rockwell/Allen Bradley hardware and software RS Linx for connection and DriveExectutive for remote setup/monitoring/programming of the drives used on the ride.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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I'm sure Duel will get some sort of event on it's final operating day. Bubbleworks did, and that was in a worse state than The haunted House is.

But then again, outside of social media stuff, SpookSlot at Efteling didn't get a closing day event. And that was one of Eftelings most important and nostalgic attractions.
 
Ash said:
Let me introduce you to…virtual machines…

Problem with old hardware is it doesn’t last, then getting replacement parts/software is even more difficult and often doesn’t have the resilience of modern hardware

Next problem is the people who are maintaining Windows NT machines, or understand any custom software are usually pushing or in retirement at this point.

That’s a risk. And 9/10. Expensive…


The idea because industrial kit is “air gapped” it’s not vulnerable to security issues is for the birds…

As can be seen on the Rita PC its standard HMI software using Rockwell/Allen Bradley hardware and software RS Linx for connection and DriveExectutive for remote setup/monitoring/programming of the drives used on the ride.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I am very well versed in virtual machines we use them all the time. They have more issues than they solve in this setting though, especially when trying to passthrough certain HMI's and hardware. Even more so with bespoke hardware (which is very common in industrial) It is simply not possible to pass through the hardware to the VM. You have no choice at all to natively use the software, natively on the hardware. The "old" hardware does last, a long time. New hardware is manufactured today, to old specifications and standards. Using more modern technology and manufacturing standards, because of this, it is more reliable than the original hardware 20 years ago. You do not go and pick up aging hardware, You use brand new hardware built to old standards using modern technology and manufacturing processes. An example of this is building new old motherboards with solid state caps, so they are much less likely to fail. Something that was not available 20 years ago mainstream.

Not sure what you mean about maintaining Windows NT machines. Windows 98 and ME were not Windows NT. Besides we still use Windows NT to this day, so there is no'maintaining'. It is still current.

Windows 11 for example is Windows NT 10.0. Windows 7 is Windows NT 6.1. NT is the most up to date, and widely used set of operating systems on the planet. Every single version of Windows released since XP has been a version of Windows NT. The fancy names for marketing such as Vista, 7, 8 and whatever are exactly that, just marketing names for what is Windows NT, which doesnt sound as good to consumers.

Windows 11 and Windows 10 are both exactly the same version of Windows NT. Which is the biggest piece if proof that Windows 11 is just a reskin of 10.

Sorry for going off topic here, this is an interesting discussion, perhaps we should start a dedicated thread at some point to discuss computers in rides.
 
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AT86 said:
It’s pretty rare for attractions to be announced as closing. The only ones I can think of are Black Hole and Corkscrew.

Most just close when they close with guests finding out after the fact including the likes of Flume, Ripsaw, Sub-Terra, Charlie, Twirling Toadstool, Submission and many many more over the years.

The sign put up in Duel is more ‘notice’ than most rides would get.
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Weren't most of these attractions subject to 'Towers Loving Care' - TLC meaning Kill It!
 
I had what will be my final two rides on Duel today.

I’m 35, and remember being terrified of the original Haunted House on my first ever visit to Towers, and enjoyed it every time on subsequent visits too. I also remember being so excited for Duel when it was announced, and have personally loved the ride since 2003 too (even in its current state). I was 16 when it had it’s first redo, so going on it with my mates and shooting zombies with guns was awesome to us of course.

The facade, the queue, the music - albeit, the current soundtrack doesn’t hold the nostalgia that the original and the Duel one do to me - everything about Gloomy Wood even is just my favourite area of the park, and always has been. I will say, I found it a little sad today knowing that the ride with all of its many components will be changing (possibly) beyond all comprehension very shortly. Yes, it’s been rethemed before, but it kept the vast majority of what it was (just with a load of lights and some crap zombies added) and I get a feeling that whatever is coming next will be truly a new experience.

Most of the props and scenes are probably too dated (if not rotting) now and it would be more effort to repair/up cycle than to just create brand new features. The ride needs this, of course it does, but I did feel that warm embrace of nostalgia wafting over me as I enjoyed my final rides. Looking at the closed up dolls house, the rocking horse, the book and wondering what awaits us even in the queue, let alone the ride. Memories will always be there, and YouTube and photos will allow us the ability to check in on the past - but still, melancholy.

Perhaps I am alone in that feeling as I fully understand the excitement around these changes, but this ride in both of its forms meant an awful lot to me. Whilst I am fully expecting ‘The Haunted House’ to be back as it’s name next year, I think it’ll be an entirely new experience due to necessity. As a result, enjoy the ride a few more times. Remember it for the years of joy that it’s current spooky inhabitants have provided the country over the last 30 years, and let’s give respect to a great ride.

(As a final note, I believe some lights have already been removed from a specific section shortly after the trommel/skull/bats/spiders. There was a decomposing chap that poked his head from the right hand side with a lovely orange light that I have enjoyed spamming for points over the years, now lightless!).
 
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