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Thorpe Park: General Discussion

Secret Weapon said:
What was the real reason why they didn't use "Icarus" ?

The story I heard (from "Making Thorpe Park") was that Merlin was unable to secure the copyright for the name, but John Burton said in this Guardian interview that they had simply decided not to use it?
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I believe it was a trademark issue, yes. So they could have used it I think, but would not have got a trademark for it.
 
rob666 said:
The real reason???

Icarus died because he flew too close to the sun.

Not an ideal name for a ride really.
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Seeing as Thorpe already have rides themed to zombies, a serial killer, and an alien invasion (and apparently also considered an apocalyptic meteor strike theme for Hyperia) then I don’t think Icarus getting a bit toasty and plummeting to his doom would have too out of place for the park. I’m definitely going with the trademark issue on this one. I am a bit surprised though that the article didn’t make or clarify a link between the name Hyperia and the convenient fact that it is a hyper coaster though.
 
Rob said:
I believe it was a trademark issue, yes. So they could have used it I think, but would not have got a trademark for it.
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How can a name like Icarus be trademarked? It is just the name of someone in a Greek legend - pretty sure those are all out of copyright. It's not as though anyone has come up with something original.
 
I believe a smart way of getting around the Icarus name issue would've been adding another name to it (like Voltron Nevera).

I thought "Icarus: Hyperia" would've been a fantastic name for the ride combining the two trademarked names. I'm not sure whether it would work with the greek mythology background and that.
 
NuttySquirrel said:
How can a name like Icarus be trademarked? It is just the name of someone in a Greek legend - pretty sure those are all out of copyright. It's not as though anyone has come up with something original.
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Generic names can be trademarked for use in specific areas. Apple being a prime example for music and electronics, I think they have one for visual media too.

The US parents office has 158 registered trademarks for the word "Hercules".

Curiouser and Curiouser: Copyrights and Trademark Rights are Not Perfect Reflections | Knobbe Martens

Much like the world of Underland created in Lewis Carroll’s book Alice Through the Looking Glass, the blurring between copyright and trademark rights can create a topsy-turvy universe.
www.knobbe.com www.knobbe.com

Trademarks protect others from using your name in specific areas. In this instance, someone had already registered Icarus for Class 41, which covers covers services related to education, training, entertainment, and cultural activities. There are some other classes probably registered too, for other services, but that's the first I can find that could cause conflict.
owenstreet7 said:
I believe a smart way of getting around the Icarus name issue would've been adding another name to it (like Voltron Nevera).

I thought "Icarus: Hyperia" would've been a fantastic name for the ride combining the two trademarked names. I'm not sure whether it would work with the greek mythology background and that.
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You cannot use another trademark, which you don't own, to create a new trademark. The owner of the original trademark can complain and make a case for consumer confusion.
 
Skyscraper said:
I think a UK theme park objected to the application as they have a ride named Icarus.
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This sounds right. If I’m not mistaken, Thorpe Park were prevented from using Icarus because Twinlakes in Melton Mowbray has a Zamperla children’s ride called Icarus Sky Flyer.

That article reveals some interesting tidbits. Some of the originally proposed themes sound interesting, and I actually quite like the name Euphoria and dispute that it sounds “too druggy”, but I am glad they didn’t go for OMG or Angel of the South…
 
Matt N said:
This sounds right. If I’m not mistaken, Thorpe Park were prevented from using Icarus because Twinlakes in Melton Mowbray has a Zamperla children’s ride called Icarus Sky Flyer.

That article reveals some interesting tidbits. Some of the originally proposed themes sound interesting, and I actually quite like the name Euphoria and dispute that it sounds “too druggy”, but I am glad they didn’t go for OMG or Angel of the South…
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You are mistaken. Whilst Twinlakes does have a ride called Icarus Sky Flyer, the park does not hold a trademark on the name and hasn't made an attempt to secure one. It's permitted to use the name, in this case, because there's no reasonable scope for confusion with the trademark holder for "Icarus", for Class 41 (the holder being Icarus Music).

The trademark application for Thorpe Park's attempt at securing Icarus can be found here:

The representatives of Thorpe Park attempted to secure protection for Classes 25, 35 and 41. Broadly, 25 covers clothing and headwear (useful if you're wanting to sell merchandise). 35 broadly covers advertising, including "promotion of rollercoaster rides". 41 covers entertainment and amusement, including "Provision of leisure and recreation facilities; rollercoaster rides; operation of rollercoaster rides, observation wheels, observation decks and platforms; amusement park services; theme park services; providing theme park rides; amusements and amusement arcade services;".

Other companies, not Twinlakes, hold protection for the term Icarus in classes 25, 35 and 41. This would have prevented Thorpe Park from successfully registering the trademark, or retaining it in the event of a legal challenge.

Whilst Thorpe Park / Merlin would have been permitted to name their ride Icarus, they would not have been able to promote / advertise it with the name, or have merchandise bearing the name either. This isn't ideal for Merlin's business model.
 
Shaggy_Dog_ said:
I am a bit surprised though that the article didn’t make or clarify a link between the name Hyperia and the convenient fact that it is a hyper coaster though.
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I'd also assumed that the Hyperia name was a reference to the fact that the ancient goddess flew over water, and the ride is situated over the old log flume - but I'm not sure if this is just a coincidence, as it wasn't explicitly mentioned in the article.

Matt N said:
Some of the originally proposed themes sound interesting, and I actually quite like the name Euphoria and dispute that it sounds “too druggy”
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I'm still disappointed that SW7 at Alton Towers was called "The Smiler" rather than "Delirium", as I personally preferred that name! (as with "Euphoria", it describes the sensation that riders ought to feel)

Also: it's interesting that Merlin wanted the Kremer Roll to be called the Burton Twist; if it had been named after John Wardley then maybe it would have been more appropriate, given his decades of service - but maybe it would have seemed a bit boastful to name it after somebody who is still relatively new in the industry?

Personally, I would have called it the "Chertsey Roll" (similar to the "Staffordshire Knot" on The Smiler), as it's promoting the region rather than a specific individual.
 
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Secret Weapon said:
I'd also assumed that the Hyperia name was a reference to the fact that the ancient goddess flew over water, and the ride is situated over the old log flume - but I'm not sure if this is just a coincidence, as it wasn't explicitly mentioned in the article.


I'm still disappointed that SW7 at Alton Towers was called "The Smiler" rather than "Delirium", as I personally preferred that name! (as with "Euphoria", it describes the sensation that riders ought to feel)

Also: it's interesting that Merlin wanted the Kremer Roll to be called the Burton Twist; if it had been named after John Wardley then maybe it would have been more appropriate, given his decades of service - but maybe it would have seemed a bit boastful to name it after somebody who is still relatively new in the industry?

Personally, I would have called it the "Chertsey Roll" (similar to the "Staffordshire Knot" on The Smiler), as it's promoting the region rather than a specific individual.
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Imagine if they named the bit where it’s stalled out both times after him. Then it could be called Burton’s Folly
 
Manchester1894 said:
On the ops front... What most of us presumed is oversold fast-tracks (or most sacking theirs for night rides) absolutely ruined the throughput of the main queue. We only moved forward due to people leaving for a good while.

Other than that fantastic night.
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Coaster said:
Same issue last week on Friday evening, the main queue barely moved during the evening (took 90 minutes to get round from past the shop to under the lift hill).
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Going back to this - I believe the max allocation for Fasttrack for Hyperia is 50 an hour so not a huge number. People shouldn't be able to save Fasttracks for a later time as only have an hour to use it.

Think RAP has a much higher number than that though.
 
When I was there last weekend the fast track queue for Hyperia was about an hour at 7pm. I strongly suspect that many people in that queue hadn't paid for those fast tracks but had received them as compensation after one of the many periods of unexpected downtime this year. (Indeed, we had two of these within our group.) Those comped FTs aren't dated and don't even have exclusion dates so of course everyone is going to save them for a night ride at Fright Nights.

Merlin really need to learn how to properly address guest feedback as opposed to chucking a handful of fast tracks at people and hoping they go away.
 
NuttySquirrel said:
When I was there last weekend the fast track queue for Hyperia was about an hour at 7pm. I strongly suspect that many people in that queue hadn't paid for those fast tracks but had received them as compensation after one of the many periods of unexpected downtime this year. (Indeed, we had two of these within our group.) Those comped FTs aren't dated and don't even have exclusion dates so of course everyone is going to save them for a night ride at Fright Nights.

Merlin really need to learn how to properly address guest feedback as opposed to chucking a handful of fast tracks at people and hoping they go away.
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That would make sense. When Hyperia ceased operation they closed the queue line of course. When it reopened a short while later it had just turned dark. We watched the queue line reopen and fast-tracks were flooding in more than general for a good minute. I said to my wife I've never seen that many go into that queue. Then we didn't move for about 30 mins. 💀
 
Call_um said:
Going back to this - I believe the max allocation for Fasttrack for Hyperia is 50 an hour so not a huge number. People shouldn't be able to save Fasttracks for a later time as only have an hour to use it.
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There’s no way they would enforce that though, too many variables.
 
NuttySquirrel said:
When I was there last weekend the fast track queue for Hyperia was about an hour at 7pm. I strongly suspect that many people in that queue hadn't paid for those fast tracks but had received them as compensation after one of the many periods of unexpected downtime this year. (Indeed, we had two of these within our group.) Those comped FTs aren't dated and don't even have exclusion dates so of course everyone is going to save them for a night ride at Fright Nights.

Merlin really need to learn how to properly address guest feedback as opposed to chucking a handful of fast tracks at people and hoping they go away.
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We received codes to redeem for single shot comp'd Fastracks at Alton Towers, after visiting on a VAFF day. The codes expire at the end of the season, but weren't redeemable for Nemesis Reborn at all, and nor were we able to use them against Wickerman during Scarefest (despite attempting to book it a week in advance). These terms weren't written anywhere, just the booking system wouldn't let us redeem them. It appears as though the ability to do as you've suggested is there, Thorpe just needs to enact it.
 
NuttySquirrel said:
When I was there last weekend the fast track queue for Hyperia was about an hour at 7pm. I strongly suspect that many people in that queue hadn't paid for those fast tracks but had received them as compensation after one of the many periods of unexpected downtime this year. (Indeed, we had two of these within our group.) Those comped FTs aren't dated and don't even have exclusion dates so of course everyone is going to save them for a night ride at Fright Nights.
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I was at the park in September and Colossus went down as I was in the station. After a while of waiting whilst they tested it and tried to get it running they announced that they were evacuating the station and that we’d all get given a fast track as we filed out, but it specifically stated on it that it wasn’t valid for Hyperia. I did wonder what those that were actually stuck on the cramped train for ages in the break run were given as compo such as a FT that did include Hyperia perhaps?
 
Shaggy_Dog_ said:
I was at the park in September and Colossus went down as I was in the station. After a while of waiting whilst they tested it and tried to get it running they announced that they were evacuating the station and that we’d all get given a fast track as we filed out, but it specifically stated on it that it wasn’t valid for Hyperia. I did wonder what those that were actually stuck on the cramped train for ages in the break run were given as compo such as a FT that did include Hyperia perhaps?
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Not sure how long you waited before the evac but me and my friends got stuck on the colossus brake run for over 30 mins and we didn’t get any fast track to use - does anyone know how much time usually passes before they consider handing out fastrack?
 
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