New Drivers

[MAC]

They’re looking to introduce restrictions on new drivers in the first year after passing, including a ban on passengers. This is due to the number of accidents involving young drivers,

I think this is a really good idea. I had a crash the week after passing my test, driving back from school with 3 mates in the car. Thankfully nobody was hurt (although the car didn’t survive), but it was scary. I think you should be restricted to carrying passengers over 21 or even family only for the first year.

Has anybody else had any bad experiences soon after passing?

 

[Jonathan]

For the record, I was fine, other than a slightly bruised ego. TL;DR is I was driving to pick my brother up from work in January 2011, went a bit too fast around an icy bend, tried to correct it, and then hit the side of a bridge over a small river. Car span around a few times and came to a stop in the middle of the road. Called my brother's work to let him know what had happened (it was a fish & chip restaurant, and he luckily picked up the phone, which made things a lot easier), then called 999, and then the dreaded call to my parents...who were 300 miles away in Leicester at the time. Eventually got home later that evening thanks to my older brother and his wife coming to rescue us. It was a bad evening for accidents as well, with another round the corner from where I had mine, and another one on the A30 a few miles away. It should be noted that I passed my test in October 2010, and turned 18 in November 2010. Given my age and that it was also just into the new year, I'm rather surprised that I wasn't breathalysed at all! I would've passed it regardless, but it was still a surprise for it to not be brought up at all - particularly when I found out a couple of weeks later that it was (and presumably still is) policy of Devon & Cornwall Police to breathalyse all drivers involved in RTCs.

 

[delta79]

As an long time driver, and Rospa advance (emergency response ambulance).
I think this ban on young passengers is a double edge sword.

The negative side is young parents or older sibling caring for younger sibling.
They will be disadvantaged by this, causing negative affects on their daily life.

I do think this would be better with exemptions for direct family and having a passenger that holds a blue badge.

I could go further and say add exemption for advance driving qualification. Like a 20 year old paramedic with a Level 3 certificate emergency response ambulance driving. Would driver better than most non advance drivers on the road but can't take their 19 year old sibling to the shop or alton towers.

 

[MAC]

For the record, I was fine, other than a slightly bruised ego. TL;DR is I was driving to pick my brother up from work in January 2011, went a bit too fast around an icy bend, tried to correct it, and then hit the side of a bridge over a small river. Car span around a few times and came to a stop in the middle of the road. Called my brother's work to let him know what had happened (it was a fish & chip restaurant, and he luckily picked up the phone, which made things a lot easier), then called 999, and then the dreaded call to my parents...who were 300 miles away in Leicester at the time. Eventually got home later that evening thanks to my older brother and his wife coming to rescue us. It was a bad evening for accidents as well, with another round the corner from where I had mine, and another one on the A30 a few miles away. It should be noted that I passed my test in October 2010, and turned 18 in November 2010. Given my age and that it was also just into the new year, I'm rather surprised that I wasn't breathalysed at all! I would've passed it regardless, but it was still a surprise for it to not be brought up at all - particularly when I found out a couple of weeks later that it was (and presumably still is) policy of Devon & Cornwall Police to breathalyse all drivers involved in RTCs.

That must have been frightening. I’m surprised they didn’t breathalyse you. At least your went a few months after passing your test, I lasted 1 week! I didn’t get breathalysed either. Then again I was only 17, in school uniform and looked about 12. Took ages to convince the cops I was actually old enough to drive!

 

[Matt.GC]

Then again I was only 17, in school uniform and looked about 12. Took ages to convince the cops I was actually old enough to drive!

Since you've mentioned school twice now, and I hope you don't mind me asking, why were you still at school at 17? You don't have to answer, I'm just trying to understand the circumstances.

As for putting further restrictions on youngsters, I'm not a fan. I was part of a terrible generation. We were given full driving licences at 17, with cars paid for with our full-time jobs (you were allowed to have them at 16 back then), and we were a bunch of hooligans smashing cars up all over the place. An entitled bunch of scum bags, disrespectful and poorly behaved. I smashed a few cars up myself, and I often look back and I'm appalled by my behaviour. Someone could have been killed.

Since then, car insurance for youngers has gone up even more, tests are harder to pass, and you're not given a full driving license when you do. You're also not allowed to go and get real jobs, yet further education will now skint you out, you're expected to behave like adults, but still treated like children. Pubs and shops won't serve you booze anymore, and my generation and above have destroyed the country and sold your futures short.

Youngsters get a bad rap. The fact that there is one in this thread actually calling for harder driving restrictions just goes to show how much you genuinely aren't like the hoodlums that came before you.

It's simple fact that young and inexperienced drivers are more dangerous behind a wheel. One road death is a death too much. But aren't younger drivers less dangerous than they were even a few years ago (genuine question, as I believe I have read that somewhere but don't have a source)?

I just wonder how many more privileges and opportunities that were afforded to us lot there is left to take away from younsters? My driving license is the single most important qualification I have to date. It's given me more prosperity opportunities than anything else.

If I wasn't allowed to drive in the dark or have someone sat in a passenger seat, I don't think I would ever have got to where I am. I consider myself very lucky in that regard, and as a father, I'm really worried that our constant bashing of young people is another example of us pulling the ladder up behind us?

 

[MAC]

Since you've mentioned school twice now, and I hope you don't mind me asking, why were you still at school at 17? You don't have to answer, I'm just trying to understand the circumstances.

My school had a sixth form so went to 18 rather than 16. I wasn’t still resitting GCSEs!

I don’t see this as bashing of young people but just a sensible approach to allow new drivers to build up experience without the pressure of taking passengers. It would only be for 6/12 months so wouldn’t be a massive change. I for one probably wouldn’t have had my accident if my mates weren’t in the car.

I think the number of young people killed is lower now but cars are a lot safer and the overall death rate has fallen. Kids still make up the majority of road accidents I think

 

[Matt N]

I only passed in June of this year, but being 21, I was admittedly older than a fair few when I passed.

Touch wood, I haven’t had any major slip ups so far. I’ve had no accidents, and I also haven’t sped or done anything of that ilk either. I’ve been relatively risk averse with driving thus far and kept it to a reasonable minimum outside of very local stuff; I don’t yet feel overly comfortable driving on motorways and dual carriageways, so haven’t gone overly long distance yet. I’ve been on the motorway only a handful of times, and never unaccompanied; the furthest I’ve driven was an hour or so up the M4 to Cardiff, and that was mainly so I could familiarise myself with the drive in case my train to Cardiff for university ever gets cancelled or significantly delayed.

The worst thing that’s probably happened to me so far was on the aforementioned drive to Cardiff, when I didn’t quite let a BMW into the middle motorway lane quickly enough for its liking (while all 3 lanes of traffic were queueing, I should add) and it nearly rammed into the side of me trying to force its way in and I had to stop abruptly to let it in and prevent an accident.

I sometimes wonder if I’m too cautious; I’m quite a nervous driver, and I’m not a fast driver of the ilk who slams their foot straight to the floor the second the speed limit raises. I feel bad because this seems to raise the hackles of some drivers; I’ve been overtaken and angrily beeped at many times, even when driving close to or at the speed limit (a motorbike once overtook me on a tight corner when I was doing 30mph in a 30mph zone, and ditto with a sports car on a windy 30mph village road when I was doing almost 30mph).

In terms of graduated driving licenses; I think they’re a double edged sword, and I’m undecided on them overall. I think some restrictions would make sense; for example, I would fully support a complete ban on alcohol and driving for younger drivers rather than the tolerance that exists now, as I have heard mooted. However, I think some of the ideas, such as this talk from some of needing an adult chaperone for the initial period after passing, would almost render getting a full driving license redundant for the first bit of time. One of the key incentives behind me getting a driving license was so that I could be more self-sufficient; if I’d always had to have my mum or dad sat next to me holding my hand after passing, it would have been massively limiting and would have effectively given me no additional benefit over when I had a provisional license.

I would also politely raise the question of; if we’re putting restrictions on new drivers, shouldn’t we also be looking at older drivers as well? Accident rates start to increase again above around 70, and some people will have passed their test years ago before current road restrictions were in place. Shouldn’t we look into implementing some sort of retesting scheme, or at very least some sort of mandatory fitness to drive examination above a certain age? I’m aware that many elderly people are perfectly capable drivers, but for some, things like eyesight and reaction times may have deteriorated with age to a degree where they almost shouldn’t be on the road.

I’m not trying to cause a culture war or demonise the elderly, and I apologise if it comes across that way, but if we’re bringing in additional rules for the young, wouldn’t it also be fair to bring in some additional rules for older drivers to ensure their continued safety?

 

[Matt.GC]

My school had a sixth form so went to 18 rather than 16. I wasn’t still resitting GCSEs!

I don’t see this as bashing of young people but just a sensible approach to allow new drivers to build up experience without the pressure of taking passengers. It would only be for 6/12 months so wouldn’t be a massive change. I for one probably wouldn’t have had my accident if my mates weren’t in the car.

I think the number of young people killed is lower now but cars are a lot safer and the overall death rate has fallen. Kids still make up the majority of road accidents I think

Thanks for clarifying. I don't consider "school" Sixth Form so was left wondering.

I understand where you are coming from. I'm a worse driver when distracted, especially when people are talking to me. But what about the peer pressure of passengers wanting to come with you and not being able to take them? Surely if you've got a driving licence and your mates haven't, they'd be queuing up? What if you gave in, got pulled, and lost your licence entirely by simply having a mate sat next to you? It seems very harsh to me.

Something just doesn't sit right. You have a licence or you don't. You've had to jump through more hoops than ever before to get your licence, pay expensive premiums, and be on probation for the first 2 years (?). I guess I take an innocent until proven guilty view on it. I don't believe youngsters should be categorised as all being baseball cap wearing hoodlums doing donoughts at McDonald's Drive Through. I've seen some shocking young drivers who think they're cool and then come a cropper. I'd sooner have them severely prosecuted for their recklessness than have the likes of you and @Matt N deemed hooligans before you've done anything wrong.

I don’t yet feel overly comfortable driving on motorways and dual carriageways, so haven’t gone overly long distance yet. I’ve been on the motorway only a handful of times, and never unaccompanied; the furthest I’ve driven was an hour or so up the M4 to Cardiff, and that was mainly so I could familiarise myself with the drive in case my train to Cardiff for university ever gets cancelled or significantly delayed.

Dual Carriageways and Motorways are made out to be these big scary roads. But it's an old wives tale, that encourages unwarranted mind talk and unnecessary anxiety. You pretty much drive in a straight line and encounter fewer hazards than on other roads. Sure, driving fatigue is an issue, and at higher speeds accidents can be more severe, but you're also far less likely to have one in the first place. I know you're not alone in thinking this, I know people who will drive anywhere but on a motorway or dual carriageway. But statistically, you are far more likely to die on a country lane than you are on a motorway. Town and country driving is stressful, main road driving is actually a breeze when you think about it.

I sometimes wonder if I’m too cautious; I’m quite a nervous driver, and I’m not a fast driver of the ilk who slams their foot straight to the floor the second the speed limit raises. I feel bad because this seems to raise the hackles of some drivers; I’ve been overtaken and angrily beeped at many times, even when driving close to or at the speed limit (a motorbike once overtook me on a tight corner when I was doing 30mph in a 30mph zone, and ditto with a sports car on a windy 30mph village road when I was doing almost 30mph).

You're doing the speed limit, so why should you care? That biker won't be so angry with you when he's impaled in the grill of an incoming lorry. The sports car driver won't have time to beep you when his head is splattered over his windscreen having already ran over a kid crossing the road. As for the BMW driver, I wouldn't have let him in. He's bullied you there, he had no intention of driving into the side of you, he just intimidating you to get out of his selfish way. I can't tell you what I would have done in that situation, but it would have involved a lot of bad language and a middle finger.

I would also politely raise the question of; if we’re putting restrictions on new drivers, shouldn’t we also be looking at older drivers as well? Accident rates start to increase again above around 70, and some people will have passed their test years ago before current road restrictions were in place. Shouldn’t we look into implementing some sort of retesting scheme, or at very least some sort of mandatory fitness to drive examination above a certain age? I’m aware that many elderly people are perfectly capable drivers, but for some, things like eyesight and reaction times may have deteriorated with age to a degree where they almost shouldn’t be on the road.

I’m not trying to cause a culture war or demonise the elderly, and I apologise if it comes across that way, but if we’re bringing in additional rules for the young, wouldn’t it also be fair to bring in some additional rules for older drivers to ensure their continued safety?

What are you apologising for yet again? It's a good point. People who are dangerous shouldn't drive, no matter what their age.

 

[GaryH]

I find it quite worrying that some young people today are quite happy for privileges and personal freedoms to be taken away without any question.

If people are crashing soon after passing their test then surely that highlights a failure in the standard of education given to drivers - not to mention councils turning off street lights to save money, potholes, worn anti skid road surfaces etc etc.

I don’t agree with stopping passengers, or night time bans. Car sharing especially with young people can really help those get to education or work who are not able to drive themselves. Creates friendships. Plus helps reduce car journeys with more in a car and how else you gonna pick up your partner and take them out for the night?!

I did the advanced driving soon after passing and it was that which taught me to really drive, not your bog standard driving test. It teaches you about defensive driving, how to handle a skid or icy conditions, dealing with a blow out, how to use your gears effectively to reduce wear on the car. I strongly recommend it to anyone. We also had the opportunity to go out with a police driver and see how they drive which was quite an eye opener.

We were 4 up in a police car coming up to a roundabout. He said most people show down to go around it but he sped up. He said provided you have power going in to the wheels the tyres are gripping and you have traction. I don’t know how fast we went around this roundabout but the car didnt move.

It’s knowledge such as this which is important - when to hit the gas and when not to. In my 33 years of driving I’ve never had points or a bump and I put out down to this advanced driving course. It’s a completely different attitude to driving than what the Highway Code teaches you.

Going back do young drivers - the majority will drive safely after passing. Insurance already costs a fortune and many need a black box fitted to the car to monitor driving styles. Caught speeding twice and your licence is suspended. Drive like an idiot and you can’t get insurance next year.

You’ll always get the odd one who will crash from driving like a loon - but that applies across all age groups. I don’t think young people should have their freedoms taken away when going to all that effort and cost to get a car and pass their test.

Edit : in my experience nervous and slow drivers are more of a danger on the roads. You need to be confident when driving. You should be able to reach the speed limit where safe to do so and confidently know what you would do in an emergency. If you don’t feel confident by to drive - don’t until such time you have done more training to get this confidence.

 

[delta79]

I think older drivers are fine to bring up. They lose function, visual, physical or neurological. Without noticing this it will cause their driving standards to drop.

 

[GaryH]

Yeah sure older drivers I believe are subject to further checks every 5 years once past a certain age? I may be wrong ….

 

[Matt N]

Yeah sure older drivers I believe are subject to further checks every 5 years once past a certain age? I may be wrong ….

I think you have to renew your driving license more frequently, but other than that, I don’t think older drivers are subject to any kind of checks. You can pass at 17 and drive until the day you die if you see fit, regardless of things like your eyesight.

 

[GaryH]

Have to renew every 3 years and fill in a health declaration form. I’d anything is disclosed it could result in a driving assessment.

 

[Matt N]

Have to renew every 3 years and fill in a health declaration form. I’d anything is disclosed it could result in a driving assessment.

This does rely on things being disclosed, though. If someone wanted, they could simply choose to not disclose any health ailments and continue driving.

That’s different to these suggestions for the young, which are very much mandatory and cannot be circumvented in the same way.

 

[James]

I disagree with graduated licenses and restricting young drivers. I passed at 18, and I've been driving for 14 years now with not one single accident (yet) in my life. I would have been fuming at 18 if I had restrictions imposed. Having a car and going out with friends was a massive part of entering adulthood and having freedom and responsibility. I wouldn't want that taken away from young people today.

As far as I see it, the driving test tests your competence at driving technically well and your safety for yourself and others. That test deems you a safe driver. You either get to drive, or you don't. I don't feel restricting young people solves anything. You end up with people risking it and risk being caught, or you're simply prolonging the inevitable.

 

[rob666]

You’ll always get the odd one who will crash from driving like a loon - but that applies across all age groups.

This is why the legislation is coming forward, young male drivers are four times more likely to die or be seriously injured when driving.
Inescapable fact, and a very good reason for the policy...that is being called for by the parents of the dead youngsters...not just legislators.

Death statistics make plain reading.
This will save lives without question.

 

[Poisson]

Accidents can be a strange thing to quantify as well. I've been in 1 serious RTC while driving, resulting in permanent back/knee/possible shoulder damage. No fault of my own, T boned as somebody didn't see me. I wasn't particularly young at the time, but if I was I'd have been enraged something like that would count against me. It's bad enough that it and a theft, neither anything I could do, have ruined my insurance for years.

 

[Alix]

I was a horror when I first passed my test. Bombing around country lanes not really thinking what I would do if someone happened to be coming the other way. Luckily, I survived without any serious incidents but a couple of near misses and am definitely much more sensible now.

When chimpy eventually learns to drive I think I would be in favour of some sort of graduated licence, not for too long, just long enough to give her a bit more time behind the wheel before the inevitable showing off to mates phase.

On the other end of the scale, my parents are both now in their 70s and although at the moment I’d say they’re fine to drive, I think the self declaration is a bit dangerous. If your car is the only way you can get to the shops (or social club, wherever) you’re not willingly going to declare a reason for that to be taken from you. Mandated check ups on health and capability and better public transport would be potential solutions. I’ve been told I’ll become taxi driver when mum and dad feel they’re no longer capable. Although depending when that day comes maybe I can delegate to the chimp…

 

[NuttySquirrel]

For my part, I actually agree with the idea of banning new young drivers from taking passengers under 18 as well as a 0% tolerance on alcohol levels for up to six months. I don't agree with needing to be chaperoned as the point of passing your test is that you're now signed off to drive independently.

People underestimate how completely distracting it is to have passengers especially when everything you're doing in the car is still very much a conscious competence. You need that time to get used to the car and being the one responsible for your own safety in it. Being responsible for the safety of another minor is a whole other matter. As for alcohol, why any new driver would think it a good idea to have even one beer before getting behind the wheel is beyond me.

 

[Matt N]

Perhaps a fairer alternative would be to impose these restrictions in the first instance of rights being abused. That would still reduce deaths among serial abusers, but would also not penalise those who’ve done nothing wrong.