Fastrack - more being sold?

pluk said:

Towseriv said:

Also though, as we know and like you have said fast track creates prob 99% profit so we have to ask the question if this revenue was lost what would be done to replace it?

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Charge a price on the gate that was enough to turn a profit without adding on loads of hidden extras?
Charge more for FT so less are sold but the profit is the same?
Actually manage the system rather than sell as many FTs as you can and hope for the best?

There are many many things that could be done better than now without harming profit.

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None of these things are "hidden" extras, they are advertised well in advance, hidden would be only selling on the gate to the queue.
Charging more for any FT would prob reduce purchases and revenue, thereby leaving the need to have another revenue stream to replace it
How would you suggest the safley and profitably manage a system with finite resources?


Besides, like I have said before, they are only doing what every other service industry does.

Towseriv said:

Besides, like I have said before, they are only doing what every other service industry does.

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Even if it were true, since when has that ever made a morally and legally questionable practice ok?

Rupert said:

Towseriv said:

Besides, like I have said before, they are only doing what every other service industry does.

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Even if it were true, since when has that ever made a morally and legally questionable practice ok?

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Thats like saying every company that offers different levels of service are morally questionable. And if you are bringing the legality of the practice into question then thats up to you, but let me make this clear I believe that such extra service charges are legititmate and informed and if you are trying to say anything different I think AT & Merlin will be knocking on your door to apologise.

The "morally and legally questionable" bit was referring to staff/queue boards lying about/exaggerating the queue time for a ride in order to make fasttrack seem like a good purchase and thus sell more, even though they are unnecessary. Maybe I'm cynical, but these false queue times have been reported so often by so many different people that I refuse to believe it's accidental or coincidence. I certainly hope Merlin and AT apologise but it won't happen, and they shall continue to do it.

Towseriv said:

Charging more for any FT would prob reduce purchases and revenue, thereby leaving the need to have another revenue stream to replace it

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It wouldn't reduce revenue - if people have set limits to spend, and decide to spend it all, they will regardless of what it's spent on.

Fastrack at 100% profit, or burger king at a revenue share for towers? Wonder which one they'd prefer?!

I don't have a problem with them being sold or people buying them, it's their choice.
I do have a problem with it impacting the main queue though, so a better system needs to be brought in.
If the queue times are made up to increase sales then that is very questionable.

Rupert said:

The "morally and legally questionable" bit was referring to staff/queue boards lying about/exaggerating the queue time for a ride in order to make fasttrack seem like a good purchase

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Queue time boards are approximate so there is no legal obligation for them to be correct to the letter. I contacted the Sales and Information department myself and asked about staff giving wrong times. I got a response from a staff member i know and respect who categorically stated that staff shouldn't be giving false times and are not asked too. Obviously however queue times are not an exact science.

I hate that they sell fastrack at the entrance though, it really gets my goat as it rams the upselling in your face.

thefatone said:

Towseriv said:

Charging more for any FT would prob reduce purchases and revenue, thereby leaving the need to have another revenue stream to replace it

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It wouldn't reduce revenue - if people have set limits to spend, and decide to spend it all, they will regardless of what it's spent on.

Fastrack at 100% profit, or burger king at a revenue share for towers? Wonder which one they'd prefer?!

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Not really right that thought process though is it? People wouldn't go without food for a fast track ticket. As you rightly say people have a finite resource and food and drink comes well before standing in a queue.

It is a proven fact that once a product reaches a certain point then increasing the price further will only reduce income not increase (its called price elasticity)

Burger King was just an example, you could compare it to purchasing merchandise in air shop which has an obviously lower profit margin to fastrack.

Indeed, good old price elasticity of demand. However, they'd have to increase fastrack a LOT to reduce income. The amount using fastrack whilst you queue just 10mins for nemesis or another biggy ride proves this. I doubt raising the scream to £12 or so will make much of a difference (other than going past the lovely rounded price of which makes it so appealing).

Yes but £2 wouldn't make that much of a differnce, the increases would need to put off 1 out of every 6 that currently buy an FT which wouldnt make that much of a difference since they suggested increase would "still cover the revenue lost from reduced FT sales"

Towseriv said:

None of these things are "hidden" extras, they are advertised well in advance, hidden would be only selling on the gate to the queue.
Charging more for any FT would prob reduce purchases and revenue, thereby leaving the need to have another revenue stream to replace it
How would you suggest the safley and profitably manage a system with finite resources?

Besides, like I have said before, they are only doing what every other service industry does.

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Why do you think the car park charge is there and rising? Is it because it costs that to upkeep a field? Or is it away of draining money out of people without changing the headline ticket price that entices people in thee first place? The first thing most first time / infrequent visitors know about a car park charge is when they see the big sign on the way in, I know this because family and friends who aren't enthusiasts have moaned about it to me.

I don't know why you think printing a time to return on a ticket would render the system unsafe or unprofitable?

Every service industry offers different levels of service, yes. But I can not think of another where someone taking them up on the premium end directly disadvantages other customers taking up the lesser end. You don't get as good a product or service, but not because of someone paying the extra. That's the huge difference.

pluk said:

Every service industry offers different levels of service, yes. But I can not think of another where someone taking them up on the premium end directly disadvantages other customers taking up the lesser end.

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Well while not directly they generally do in some sense.

For example, I get on a crowded train and have to stand for the duration of my journey. You could argue that the first class compartment at the front with all of two people in it has therefore reduced the number of seats available to the standard passengers such as myself, and that if they were all standard seats I would stand more chance of getting one. Instead, they have to go unused, available only to those willing to pay the extra costs.

The same on an airplane. Areas like business class and club class reduce the amount of space available to the standard class passengers. They therefore book up faster due to the reduced number of seats, which may disadvantage some people as it means they cannot travel when they want. Also the people in standard may be subjected to more cramped conditions due to the reduced floorspace they are permitted without extra charge.

Most services of this kind will impact another area in some form. It's just in some cases it's more profound than others.

The only example I can think of is Ryan air. Here you pay for priority boarding were you board first and get a better seat/all family sit together.

And here is the problem, they sell so many that you end up with not getting any benifit because 90% of the passengers have paid for it so you still have a scramble.
The poor sods who don't pay get stuck next to fatty.

And this is how fast track will end up if the timed ticket idea is not taken up, 90% will pay for fast track and still wait an hour, the rest will get one ride per day.

BigT said:

this is how fast track will end up if the timed ticket idea is not taken up, 90% will pay for fast track and still wait an hour, the rest will get one ride per day.

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Not exactly the same is it? Firstly, rarely would all guests go to one ride at one time and secondly the price of fast track is already more than your example

pluk said:

Towseriv said:

None of these things are "hidden" extras, they are advertised well in advance, hidden would be only selling on the gate to the queue.
Charging more for any FT would prob reduce purchases and revenue, thereby leaving the need to have another revenue stream to replace it
How would you suggest the safley and profitably manage a system with finite resources?

Besides, like I have said before, they are only doing what every other service industry does.

Click to expand...

Why do you think the car park charge is there and rising? Is it because it costs that to upkeep a field? Or is it away of draining money out of people without changing the headline ticket price that entices people in thee first place? The first thing most first time / infrequent visitors know about a car park charge is when they see the big sign on the way in, I know this because family and friends who aren't enthusiasts have moaned about it to me.

I don't know why you think printing a time to return on a ticket would render the system unsafe or unprofitable?

Every service industry offers different levels of service, yes. But I can not think of another where someone taking them up on the premium end directly disadvantages other customers taking up the lesser end. You don't get as good a product or service, but not because of someone paying the extra. That's the huge difference.

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I didnt say it would be unsafe but it would be unprofitable from loosing the fast track system leading to higher costs over all.

There is no way of knowing what they would increase to off set this revenue

I notice on the Alton website when you buy fast track online, Sonic is the only ride it says you need to pick a time.

djtruefitt said:

I notice on the Alton website when you buy fast track online, Sonic is the only ride it says you need to pick a time.

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I think it's because it nearly always has a queue, and Fastrack will slow this down even more.

As far the other Fastracks, they need to have limited numbers, and if they do already, reduce this cap!

It slows queues down too much...

I got fast track but wasn't asked for a time on Soday! Maybe on the day? ~Meg ^^

I think this needs to be bought up. On park today I was shocked by sheer number of Fastracks clearly being over sold by the park.

Most of you will have no doubt seen this picture we published on TowersStreet's Facebook account. The standard queueline was open on the hilltop extension (Lift hill one was closed) and all the way down to the station. We entered the queue at an advertised 40 minutes. We joined the queue more or less when it was at the entrance. After 45 minutes we finally got to the stairs back down to the entrance were greeted by a half full Fastrack queue.

It took us another 45 minutes to reach the merge point, which will normally take around 15 minutes at the very most. All this time the Fastrack line was filling. Eventually, it reached the point where the entire under lift area was crammed full of people waiting, and the Fastrack queue was stretching back and out of the entrance!

If that isn't proof that too many tickets are being sold I don't know what is. Once we passed the merge point we were waiting only about 10 minutes to board the ride, which is fairly standard.



I appreciate that today was a peak day (27,000 guests supposidly), but on no day should this many Fastrack tickets be sold for a single attraction. It must have added at least 45 minutes to the main queue.

So much for helping to reduce the main queue...

And the fun didn't end there! When we ventured over to X-Sector we were greeted by a similar sight on Oblivion!



Once again, the Fastrack queue was full, and stretched back to it's entrance. After this photo was taken following a ride on Enterprise the Fastrack line was longer still!

Annoyingly the queuetime board on Oblivion was not showing a time, but when asking a host in the area they told us it was around 2 hours long. Supposedly, 200-300 Fastracks were used on the ride in the space of 1-2 hours. Make of that what you will, but to me that proves some serious overselling has been going on ???

Goes to prove my Ryanair analogy could well be correct in the end.

The trouble is whilst people buy them they will continue to be sold.