2017/18: SW8 Speculation

[BigAl]

It may seem odd, but Wardley did once say about how it will be interesting to see how the hybrids age/last over time. He did not sound convinced at all!

I don't see why he wouldn't be, they've got a hell of a lot of experience when it comes to coasters - more so than a lot of enthusiasts realise! Here's a list of rides they've worked on:

 

[Tim]

Seems odd that they wouldn't trust RMC based on their rides being new considering they've been retracking various wooden coasters with their topper track since 2001, and full coasters since 2011. They had no problem going to B&M in the 90s (still a new company at that stage) for concepts which had never been seen before!

It seems odd but back in the 90s it was a very different ball game. The park wanted to do something drastic, reinvent what Alton Towers was and so they were more open to a risk.

But were B&M ever a risk? They had been renown employees of Giovanola, the track design had already been around for many years and the decision to chose them came after experiencing Arrow's very innovative yet flawed pipeline coaster.
RMC however have almost reinvented the wheel. It's a brand new system by a company that may have been around since 2001 but only recently built there first roller coaster.
Likewise Mack clearly know what they are doing with over 200 years of experience but until they built Blue Fire no one would have approached them for anything more than a family ride.

 

[BigAl]

It seems odd but back in the 90s it was a very different ball game. The park wanted to do something drastic, reinvent what Alton Towers was and so they were more open to a risk.

But were B&M ever a risk? They had been renown employees of Giovanola, the track design had already been around for many years...

Remember that Giovanola had only built a handful of coasters in their time. The track had been around for a while, but RMC's topper track design has had more than enough proving time, hence why so many major parks across the world, not just the US, have gone to them. If they weren't sound investments, the industry wouldn't have taken to them in such a manner.

 

[Tim]

Remember that Giovanola had only built a handful of coasters in their time. The track had been around for a while, but RMC's topper track design has had more than enough proving time, hence why so many major parks across the world, not just the US, have gone to them. If they weren't sound investments, the industry wouldn't have taken to them in such a manner.

Don't get me wrong I respect RMC and if it was up to me I'd sign them up immediately and start building that cross-valley coater only they could create. But I also understand why they are considered a risk. For all of Merlin's talk of wanting a USP what they actually want is a proven product that they can slap something marketable onto it. RMC are offering something that is genuinely new.

In a few years time though I can see them going to RMC

 

[BigAl]

In a few years time though I can see them going to RMC

With RMC and Merlin, it's not a question of if, but when and who (in this case, Thorpe or Towers). Hopefully they'll build something before they're any later to the table than they already are with these things!

 

[Dave]

Towers make no bones about wanting a woodie and it's Merlin that are stopping them. It fits in with their family image and is really the only coaster type they don't have. RMC offer Towers a way to get a woodie yet still have the USP that Merlin seem to demand (because Merlin are numpties).

Towers is run by people who love theme parks (really) but have to deal with a company that loves money, the logical conclusion is an RMC coaster soon.

 

[Rob]

Towers make no bones about wanting a woodie and it's Merlin that are stopping them. It fits in with their family image and is really the only coaster type they don't have. RMC offer Towers a way to get a woodie yet still have the USP that Merlin seem to demand (because Merlin are numpties).

Towers is run by people who love theme parks (really) but have to deal with a company that loves money, the logical conclusion is an RMC coaster soon.

But Morwenna said back in 2010 that USP with a woodie is not the issue. They could build a cross valley woodie and it would have the biggest drop of any wooden coaster the world, USP sorted (of course lots of planning issues there).

Morwenna said that woodies do not perform well on market research. And this is what makes them a no go with Merlin. The public do not think they are safe (apparently, I still think they'd flock to ride a Wodan equivalent). I can't see how an RMC would get around this issue, heck they look more dangerous than you standard woodie! So until they can make a woodie perform well on market research I cannot see Merlin providing them the cash to build one.

 

[Dave]

But Morwenna said back in 2010 that USP with a woodie is not the issue. They could build a cross valley woodie and it would have the biggest drop of any wooden coaster the world, USP sorted (of course lots of planning issues there).

Morwenna said that woodies do not perform well on market research. And this is what makes them a no go with Merlin. The public do not think they are safe (apparently, I still think they'd flock to ride a Wodan equivalent). I can't see how an RMC would get around this issue, heck they look more dangerous than you standard woodie! So until they can make a woodie perform well on market research I cannot see Merlin providing them the cash to build one.

We will see i suppose

 

[Alastair]

Remember that Giovanola had only built a handful of coasters in their time. The track had been around for a while, but RMC's topper track design has had more than enough proving time, hence why so many major parks across the world, not just the US, have gone to them. If they weren't sound investments, the industry wouldn't have taken to them in such a manner.

Also, Giovanola hardly had a great reputation with the coasters they did build. If I'm not mistaken, on their first major solo installation (Goliath at SFMM) the track was found to be too short to complete the circuit when it was put together! Even worse than Gerstlauer!

 

[TheMan]

The Forbidden Valley B&M thing needs to take one thing into account.

The HUGE infrastructure changes and the enormous budget that would be required.

The Smiler is a world record breaking coaster, and they wouldn't increase the budget to fix those problems and do the ride properly, the last thing towers need is a car park coaster which would mean they'd need to re-landscape a whole area.

Whilst it's obvious to see the benefits of this, especially as people say with the monorail surely being limited time wise now, I cannot imagine Merlin stumping up the kind of cash needed.

Which in reality, is just shameful.

 

[James]

But Morwenna said back in 2010 that USP with a woodie is not the issue. They could build a cross valley woodie and it would have the biggest drop of any wooden coaster the world, USP sorted (of course lots of planning issues there).

Morwenna said that woodies do not perform well on market research. And this is what makes them a no go with Merlin. The public do not think they are safe (apparently, I still think they'd flock to ride a Wodan equivalent). I can't see how an RMC would get around this issue, heck they look more dangerous than you standard woodie! So until they can make a woodie perform well on market research I cannot see Merlin providing them the cash to build one.

Maybe there has been a U-turn? Maybe they've found some way to get market research on their side? Or maybe Merlin have magically discovered that risks can be taken and that it worked for 90s Tussauds?

Given that a fair few people are hinting at RMC maybe a woodie could be the next SW (or it has been brought up just to get some discussion going on here).

I'd rather see this rumoured secret B&M project (4D coaster) happen as the next SW. A woodie will be great to see. I'm a bit hmm on it though. If we do see a woodie it will be interesting to see if we find out how and why Merlin have decided to build one now, after years of refusing it because market research doesn't prove it would be popular.

 

[TheMan]

Rather a big B&M for me too all day long but only if a new concept.

 

[Alastair]

As much as I've yearned for the B&M 4D, I actually think I'd rather see a woodie. Just because for a park of Alton Towers' size, not having a woodie is a travesty. Also, the possibilities and likelihood of ride quality/experience are far more with a woodie, especially given the setting.

If a B&M 4D was built, you can guarantee that it would be small, fairly tame and there would be another one at Cedar Point 10x higher and better within 2 years.

 

[TheMan]

If a B&M 4D was built, you can guarantee that it would be small, fairly tame and there would be another one at Cedar Point 10x higher and better within 2 years.

Nemesis, Oblivion, even air to a degree.

I'd give B&M a bit more credit with Alton Towers.

Though we're in Merlin days so who knows.

 

[Rob]

The Smiler is a world record breaking coaster, and they wouldn't increase the budget to fix those problems and do the ride properly, the last thing towers need is a car park coaster which would mean they'd need to re-landscape a whole area.

Well, I think The Smiler did get more money than initially planned because of it going over budget. And at the same time Merlin cut the budget for Zufari. Pretty obvious what happened there!

To be honest I'd be surprised if even Towers know what they are getting for 2017 right now. If past projects are anything to go by they're probably just thinking about. It would be lovely however if this time around they had planned in advance and know pretty much exactly what they are going to build with plans being drawn up and finalised ready for submission towards the end of this year. They surely can't mess up another new attraction!?

 

[AstroDan]

For the record, RMC is just one of a number of manufacturers which I reckon could be in the frame - it's all just theory. There's no actual info from Alton Towers on this.

 

[_nemesis_]

The problem I'd have with a 4D coaster is with the space provided (assuming it would occupy the Air car park) it would have to have a fairly short layout when regarding the space taken up by the wide cars. The ride would need a higher lift hill as well to bring the heavy cars over with enough speed. Whilst they could dig down further than usual, the space would still be limited either the clearance for the trains passing each other.

As much as I'd like another B&M, I think a wooden coaster would nicely round off Towers' line up.

 

[Rob]

Whatever it is I would just like SW8 to be a world class coaster as in my eyes the previous two SWs are not world class. Thirteen has a great USP but the main coaster section is poor. The Smiler has had too many problems and for me is not comfortable enough to be considered a world class coaster, even though it is extremely thrilling. SW8 has to be world class!

 

[James]

The Air car park would be loads of space for a 4D! They take up a big footprint but that car park is hardly tiny and has land around it that could be utilized.

I agree a wooden coaster would round off Towers' offerings nicely though. It's one thing that they have needed for a very long time. I remain curious as to why the u-turn from Merlin if this does become true.

 

[Maelstrom]

If Alton did get the first B&M 4D coaster (if B&M are even planning one) i would imagine would use a launch rather than a lift hill. However the cost of a 4D B&M i imagine would be huge, especially the cost of the trains.

Alton could go the way of Thorpe and add a new dark ride, which if i remember correctly was the orginally plan a few years back for 2016 (when merlin were adding major rides every 3 years), however i cant see Alton getting a major dark ride just one year after Thorpe and think Coaster is prob most likely.

I would hope that by now Alton have a good idea of what they want in 2017 and are now in the detailed planning stages of the ride ready to submit a planning application in autumn, they need to submit earlier than they did for Thirteen and Smiler to allow more time in case things go wrong.