2018: Wicker Man - General Discussion - SPOILERS! - Part One

[Spike]

"World class"

Imagining the conversation between marketing and the designers around that one...

"We Must say world first"
"It's not though"
"Have to say world first"
"You can't"
"We always say world first"
"But it's not"
"Really?"
"Yes"
"Can we keep world in?"
"Go on then!"

I'd liked to have been a fly on the wall at Cedar Point with Steel Vengeance then as they're claiming 10 world records with it, most of them hybrid nonsense but still.

Let Alton have their 'World's' tag lines, it's harmless marketing and gets people through the gates.

 

[ChristmasPud]

Let Alton have their 'World's' tag lines, it's harmless marketing and gets people through the gates.

Its not just a harmless tagline though, at Merlin it's a system by which attractions are greenlit. A concept may be excellent and a real solid attraction, but it won't be approved if it doesnt have a 'world first' as its premise. We've seen plenty of far better wooden coasters rejected until now because of this, and lots of compromise to fit 'worlds firsts' for not much benefit other than PR.

So Id say "world class" is at least a step towards the right direction, towards the actual merits of the ride being the selling point at the board meetings, not just the 'image'. I'd argue it doesnt even get people through the gate as much as they think.

 

[jmc]

The SW8 page now has Episode 1 uploaded of a series of 3 videos. Basically just the rollercoaster restaurant clips rehashed to show the history of the existing SW's.

Episode 2 is marked as 'coming soon'.
I wonder if we will see a more open approach to marketing of this coaster.


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[Dave]

No it won't have a pirate theme

Also looking at that whole website basically dedicated to "The Secret Weapon Programme" now.. Don't people think the "Secret Weapon" thing has got quite OTT? A label which never meant anything until Thirteen came along, when Merlin realised it could sell every coaster to fans as a "secret weapon" as if part of a franchise of rollercoasters, no matter what the coasters actually were (as in, Thirteen's coaster was actually less thrilling than the Runaway Train). The Smiler was even called a SW before the final coaster type or location was even decided on.

The fact SW means nothing but PR might be obvious to some, and there's nothing wrong with a bit of fun. But for others it has become some kind of special expectation or classification, as if a panel of coaster consultants have sat around a table in a nuclear bunker and annointed this latest proposal to be "Secret Weapon" worthy. Which is funny, but a load of hot air.

SW1 and SW2 never got beyond drawings stages either, were never put to the Tussauds board, so their forced inclusion to pretend there's ever been a "SW Programme" is silly. It was a bit of fun, but over the last couple years I've seen it turn into another misleading promotional thing to keep geeks in check, just like "Towers Loving Care".

One thing's for sure, its at least a better way of advetising a coaster than the constant "worlds first" taglines! So no complaints there!

It doesn't really detract from your point but the SW tag was used quite heavily in Oblivion and Airs early marketing too so it isn't a phenomenon starting with Th13teen. I think it's more obvious usage since is more related to the rise of fan sites (which really took off during Airs construction) as the term gets chatter going which has a small but not insignificant viral marketing effec. Also social media being more amenable to early low cost marketing options that the SW tag fits quite nicely into.

 

[cactuselves]

Tusks.....

 

[deathproof69]

Was wondering about the iron bars which act like bridges, will they be removed after construction has finished or will they stay?! Just thought wooden coasters were nearly all wood apart from nuts, bolts and track!

 

[DiogoJ42]

Plenty of woodies have steel girders when the track has to cross a path / other track etc. I agree: It's cheating!

 

[monkeyboy]

If we move the letters around we could onto something (probably not).I googled Hiaydwin and nothing came up.

I googled it also and some how ended up at pornhub

 

[monkeyboy]

No.. No it is not... I looked this morning and It says "Plaque". I'll be honest I thought that first, then double took and saw it was a q not a g!

Plaque! The worlds first tooth based bacterial theme!

 

[dazza4783]

Plenty of woodies have steel girders when the track has to cross a path / other track etc. I agree: It's cheating!

There are some "wooden" coasters that have their support structures made almost entirely of steal, such as White Lightning and Mine Blower at the fun spot parks in America, that's cheating.

 

[Altonadvocate1]

WOW, only just seen this. Well done AT, I'm impressed.

Just as I thought they had lost their bottle for fear of early marketing being misrepresented in the press and affecting the summer season, they do this.

Personally, I love the flashback to the previous secret weapons. The fact that they have specifically referenced what it was that made SW''s 3 to 7 special makes me all the more confident that SW8 will feature something we don't know about, whether it be awesome, quirky or gimmicky... no mention of the groundbreaking tag though.

Also love the fact that it says the SW programme will deliver world famous attractions for years to come. Can we have them more than every four years though please?

Love the epic music, the past ride logos, the cryptic images and symbols and the respect to previous coasters and their designers.

We all know this is not going to be the world's biggest woody, but I'm confident, that this will be just what the park needs.. an attraction to provide a few scares to families and fun to thrill seakers.

Love this early marketing direction. I wish AT every success in 2018 in their mission to reclaim their mantle as the UK''s number one Theme Park. Short term guest numbers aside, I think they always were.

2018 comeback on the cards. I think so!

 

[dazza4783]

They look like made up runes. Could be a Norse theme? A Viking woodie, how novel!

I would say that it most likely says "Be Chosen". The story of the ride will be something to do with being chosen for something which will end up being chosen to be a human sacrifice in the ritual involving the Wicker Man statue.

 

[ChristmasPud]

Also love the fact that it says the SW programme will deliver world famous attractions for years to come. Can we have them more than every four years though please?

Yeah but the only real 'programme' they have is their capital investment strategy. Then they hand the projects to the marketing people who decide to call it "Secret Weapon" and push the secret weapon name as a brand.

Yes the 'Secret Weapons' name is a bit of fun , but I can see this going the same way for fans as something like Doctor Who.. where the obsession of arbitrarily franchising and 'referencing' the past, the need to line up every past 'Doctor persona' (in this case the "Secret Weapons"), takes over from any actual merit of the thing being created.

So long as people realise its all just pretty logos and taglines, you know...!

 

[daveslodge]

Hi all,

Don't think I've posted since back in the Thirteen construction days, but always come back to lurk every now and then!

My two cents...

Having been on park recently and witnessing the use of phrases such as 'unearthed' and 'ground-breaking' on the SW8 signage, I thought this could be a nod towards an 'earthquake' type theme, or certainly something that involves the ground/earth being torn up, moving, etc.

Today's updates have gone some way to developing these thoughts, and in an extension to the 'ground-breaking' concept, I'm now leaning towards a Volacano/Tribal type theme. The 'fiery' style of the somewhat 'tribal' looking font fits nicely with this theory, and although it's probably just me looking for further evidence of this, I'm sure the word 'CHAZM' (or chasm) can be made from these letters/symbols (with a little leading and squinting of course!).

In addition to the above, it appears to me that a tribal/volcano theme would work as a middle ground between what are two quite distinct and separate themes in Katanga Canyon and Mutiny Bay - think the Pirates of the Caribbean movie in which our pirates come in to contact with a tribe on a tropical island (Katanga Canyon?). I appreciate Katanga is more of an African Village...but I think this still works.

The addition of the 'tusks' to the theming structure only further my opinion on this theme!

It would be good to hear other's thoughts on this...and by all means please feel free to shoot the theory down in fiery, tribal flames!!!

 

[IanSR]

Tusks? Don't tell me there's going to be a huge model of a Mammoth in the middle of the ride?

 

[CoasterCrazyChris]

Let's face it the theme and branding will be chosen based on what will be deemed by management as the best way to sell this product to the plebs most effectively.

I doubt it will make much sense to the existing themed areas around it - until this becomes detrimental to getting people through the gates we will continue to see a park full of individual 'products' shoehorned into any available development space.

Let's take some consolation in the fact that that it can't possibly be worse than Rita or Galactica. They are truly awful lazy attempts at theming and immersion.

 

[Dave]

There is a delightful dash of irony that the expected wicker man theme would have fitted a whole lot better in Merry England than Mutiny Bay....

 

[evilcod]

There is a delightful dash of irony that the expected wicker man theme would have fitted a whole lot better in Merry England than Mutiny Bay....

"Smugglers Cove" rebrand for the area? Problem solved

 

[Spike]

Its not just a harmless tagline though, at Merlin it's a system by which attractions are greenlit. A concept may be excellent and a real solid attraction, but it won't be approved if it doesnt have a 'world first' as its premise. We've seen plenty of far better wooden coasters rejected until now because of this, and lots of compromise to fit 'worlds firsts' for not much benefit other than PR.

For someone who's never worked at Alton Towers you seem to know all the ins and outs of how their business is run, not just Towers though - Merlin. How on earth do you know that concepts are turned down due to lack of a 'worlds first' element, enlighten me Bill.

You've completely contradicted yourself here by stating that coaster concepts don't leave the planning stage because they don't have a world's first element hence the loss of previous woodie designs (this was not the case with the cross valley woodie) if this is the case how is SW8 being built? that's got no 'worlds first' element, how did that leave the planning stage?

Also as you've stated Merlin and not Alton Towers, how many of Thorpe's, Gardalands, Heide Park etc were world first, many of those coasters left the planning stages without world first taglines.

So Id say "world class" is at least a step towards the right direction, towards the actual merits of the ride being the selling point at the board meetings, not just the 'image'. I'd argue it doesn't even get people through the gate as much as they think.

I actually think 'world class' is worse than world's first, there's no real ambiguity with world's first it either is or it isn't a world's first. Advertising a ride as 'world class' means you're comparing it to the likes of Forbidden Journey, Escape from Gringotts or even Taron. They're putting themselves in the firing line for a lot of criticism if it's not epically themed or rides like something we've never seen before.
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People get so bent out of shape with the whole 'World's First' but I don't think people realise just what that means and take it for granted that we have had the first vertical drop coaster, first true flying coaster, first free-fall drop coaster and record breaking 14 inversion coaster. These coasters have shaped the world of innovation with variations of them but Alton did them first and whilst these concepts have mainly gone on to grow into larger more intense versions, our little park in Staffordshire did it first.

It makes good business sense to market a world's first if the coaster has one and I disagree entirely with your assumption that coasters don't leave the cutting room floor if they're not a world's first because that's been proven false multiple times at Alton. The difference with Alton is they actually strive for NEW ride experiences as a whole. With the exception of The Smiler the other big 3 world's firsts were through brand new ride innovation and technology, not just beating existing records.

Steel Vengeance - claiming 10 new world records, Time Traveller - claiming 6 new world records. From a marketing perspective these tag lines bring people through the gates which is what parks ultimately need to do, not appease to the moaning fanboys/girls who pick fault with anything they find.

Alton have a proven they can build fantastic coasters with or without the 'world's' tagline but you cannot blame them for pushing the envelope of innovation because Alton Towers would not be here today without it.

 

[Benzin]

It isn't just world's first concepts, it's ANYTHING first (much like how parks in the USA go "FIRST ON THE WEST COAST" or something)... So Garda and Heide have both had *insert country here* FIRST ride, much like how Swarm was advertised as the UK first Wing-Rider... Look at the string of additions at Thorpe, FIRST Angry Birds Land (which was wrong), FIRST I'm a Celeb attraction, FIRST Saw themed ride(s), FIRST VR Ghost Train... There is quite an obvious trend on what the parks need to do in order to garner investment from the executives...

If it's not a first, it's got to have an IP... Hence why Madagascar, Gruffalo, Kung Fu Panda, CBeebies have all come in, when in Merlin's first few years we had two area rebrands with nary an external IP in sight... Though this of course can have the reasoning laid upon the feet of Thomas Land and Peppa Pig World being great successes moreso than anything of Merlin's deliberate choices...

Everything that happened with Nemesis, Oblivion and Air is a different time, under a different company and ethos... It's fairly obvious through the majority of Merlin's additions that you can't do anything without a USP, even if it desperately needs work being done to it...

Are Thirteen and Smiler really innovative in the same way as the Tussauds B&Ms? I doubt Merlin had such a high level of involvement in those two as Tussauds and Wardley had in Oblivion and Air's developments (since Nemesis only exists after B&M had already innovated Batman)... Though it depends on what you think innovation is defined by really, but the question is more aligned to Thirteen rather than Smiler (because that came in late in the day after other plans seemingly fell through, and was clearly more a case of trying to fit in as much as possible into the space available rather than any 'true' innovation)... Thirteen's drop system is bloody clever, but was it the result of hard work between Intamin and Merlin, or just Intamin? Only those involved can answer that one...

There's definitely however a case that unless your proposal has SOMETHING to sell it (be it a world's first or IP that doesn't really fit the area but is apparently popular) then you won't get anything from it... Which is why the likes of Duel and Tomb Blaster are made of plasters at the moment...