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2019: General Discussion

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Nemesis queue to the galactica lockers
 
Busy weekday with an advertised 4 pm closure? Major ride just over a year old (that folk say was making weird noises) down for an extended period? Daft marketing tactics? Spending money on a new attraction (ok redecorated old attraction) that nobody seems to be interested in and charging extra for the privilege?

Second to Disney?

Maybe they should ask Disney permission to use Goofy as their mascot.
 
Rob said:
I can only assume that there aren't any extensions open? As it is showing as a 25 minute queue at the moment.
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I didn't join it, but certainly didn't look like 25 minutes. I don't think the extension was open though, but still, long queue.
 
Austin Towers said:
Busy weekday with an advertised 4 pm closure? Major ride just over a year old (that folk say was making weird noises) down for an extended period? Daft marketing tactics? Spending money on a new attraction (ok redecorated old attraction) that nobody seems to be interested in and charging extra for the privilege?

Second to Disney?

Maybe they should ask Disney permission to use Goofy as their mascot.
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Stop whinging.

Ride breakdowns and part failures happen.

There's a lovely, happy atmosphere in the park today. Operations (as they have been this season) are top notch. At least 20 school coaches by 9.30 am in the car park.

Yes, it's busy, but it's a lovely day and people are coming in and enjoying themselves.

I am!
 
Mikw said:
Two parts of the full extension open!
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I doubt that. If Area 1, 3 & 4 are all open and full you are looking at 90mins (before FastTrack is factored in). All the Nemesis Ops know this and no way would they call in a 25min queue to Control.

Area 1 - from the Nemesis ride entrance turning right and heading down into the pit and then up to the station is about 20mins on 2 train operation. Add on a little for Fastrack merge-point.

Area 2 - closed when Air was built, but it was basically an extension to Area 1 and went beyond the Nemesis garage, then double backed to the station behind the stall-turn (it can still be seen, overgrown). This was about 10mins.

Area 3 - go from the ride entrance and turn left, up the steps then go round the area near the first drop. This is about 25mins extra queue time & rejoined you into the start of Area 1 behind the ride entrance gate.

Area 4 - an extension to Area 3 and goes right round the area behind the vertical loop / pit. This is also another 25mins or so queue time & feb you back into Area 3 right by where you left it.

Area 5 - disused for years. This took you from the Nemesis entrance, left, then under the monorail for a big out & back queue that then fed you into the start of Area 3. Again, this was another good 25mins queue time & was only really used in the first few years of Nemesis operation. Some of this queueline was re-used for Sub Terra.

I suspect what the photo shows is Area 1 queue full and overflowing, before the ride host on the entrance (if there was one) decided to open Area 3.
 
AT86 said:
Ride close has been extended from 4pm to 5pm tomorrow (Friday), and from 5pm to 6pm Saturday and Sunday.

I expect it will be extended today too.
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This does just show the sheer incompetence of Alton Towers management. The school trips don't just turn up unannounced - the trip operators / coach companies all pre-book to secure the cheapest possible admission rates.

If you read any newspaper / news website it has been quite clear for days that the UK is braced for a rather warm & dry few days + weekend weather-wise. So lots of pre-booked school trips + good weather forecast predicted for days will probably = higher than expected crowds. Add to this the park know they have one of their flagship rides down, this will = longer queues.

You really couldn't make it up. Only Towers in their endless quest to drain the pockets of their guests hold back until the last minute to announce ride closure extensions. Second onto to Disney indeed. I am not sure who would do the better job of running Towers - Goofy or Donald Duck - it would be close.

I know I like to contrast to Europa Park. This park admittedly has an enviable location, serving Germany, France & Switzerland. There are only about two weeks of the entire season there where it's not a school / public holiday in one of the three countries. As such, crowds are generally consistent & ride operations excellent. Europa Park consider the minimum number of acceptable rides for a guest to get in a day - even a busy one - is ten. As such, the actual ride count & park operations are geared up to achieve this.

Please Mr Varney, it's clear the RTP business does not sit well within your portfolio, so kindly offer to sell it to Mack GMBH. I deliberately use Europa Park as comparison as it is privately owned & does not have the bottomless pit of money / IP rights that Disney has. But those who have been to Europa Park will have seen the sheer quality of the product they deliver - IMO it exceeds Disney standards at notably lower prices.
 
What makes you think Mack GMBH would want to buy it?

The biggest issue for any private investor would be the sale and leaseback arrangement, which Merlin completed weeks after getting the keys.
 
When was area 4 last used does anyone know?


Kraken27 said:
I doubt that. If Area 1, 3 & 4 are all open and full you are looking at 90mins (before FastTrack is factored in). All the Nemesis Ops know this and no way would they call in a 25min queue to Control.

Area 1 - from the Nemesis ride entrance turning right and heading down into the pit and then up to the station is about 20mins on 2 train operation. Add on a little for Fastrack merge-point.

Area 2 - closed when Air was built, but it was basically an extension to Area 1 and went beyond the Nemesis garage, then double backed to the station behind the stall-turn (it can still be seen, overgrown). This was about 10mins.

Area 3 - go from the ride entrance and turn left, up the steps then go round the area near the first drop. This is about 25mins extra queue time & rejoined you into the start of Area 1 behind the ride entrance gate.

Area 4 - an extension to Area 3 and goes right round the area behind the vertical loop / pit. This is also another 25mins or so queue time & feb you back into Area 3 right by where you left it.

Area 5 - disused for years. This took you from the Nemesis entrance, left, then under the monorail for a big out & back queue that then fed you into the start of Area 3. Again, this was another good 25mins queue time & was only really used in the first few years of Nemesis operation. Some of this queueline was re-used for Sub Terra.

I suspect what the photo shows is Area 1 queue full and overflowing, before the ride host on the entrance (if there was one) decided to open Area 3.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Kraken27 said:
This does just show the sheer incompetence of Alton Towers management. The school trips don't just turn up unannounced - the trip operators / coach companies all pre-book to secure the cheapest possible admission rates.

If you read any newspaper / news website it has been quite clear for days that the UK is braced for a rather warm & dry few days + weekend weather-wise. So lots of pre-booked school trips + good weather forecast predicted for days will probably = higher than expected crowds. Add to this the park know they have one of their flagship rides down, this will = longer queues.

You really couldn't make it up. Only Towers in their endless quest to drain the pockets of their guests hold back until the last minute to announce ride closure extensions. Second onto to Disney indeed. I am not sure who would do the better job of running Towers - Goofy or Donald Duck - it would be close
Click to expand...

I am by no means a Towers/Merlin apologist and I think a park the size of Alton Towers can never justify a 4pm close, however when looked at in the context of the current situation the park is in I wouldn’t be so sure these decisions on extending ride close are down to incompetence within Towers management.

Budgets are very tight, you don’t want to be that person who extends ride close a few weeks in advance, only then to find guest numbers aren’t high enough and that’s a whole load of cost that could have been saved. The bean counters won’t like that one bit.

With school trips they often leave the park early, around 3/4pm - so extending ride close in advance won’t necessarily make much sense since most of the guests in the park will be leaving at a set time anyhow. What makes the difference is those guests that aren’t on school trips, if lots of those prebook or turn up on the day then yes, get ride close extended. That appears to be the approach they take - see who turns up and make a call around 1pm each day, that way the chance of ‘wasting’ budget is reduced.

If they have clear signs that guest numbers will be higher further in advance (due to hotel bookings, corporate events, high prebooks etc) then they will extend in advance - as they appear to have done this weekend.
 
Kraken27 said:
I doubt that. If Area 1, 3 & 4 are all open and full you are looking at 90mins (before FastTrack is factored in). All the Nemesis Ops know this and no way would they call in a 25min queue to Control.

Area 1 - from the Nemesis ride entrance turning right and heading down into the pit and then up to the station is about 20mins on 2 train operation. Add on a little for Fastrack merge-point.

Area 2 - closed when Air was built, but it was basically an extension to Area 1 and went beyond the Nemesis garage, then double backed to the station behind the stall-turn (it can still be seen, overgrown). This was about 10mins.

Area 3 - go from the ride entrance and turn left, up the steps then go round the area near the first drop. This is about 25mins extra queue time & rejoined you into the start of Area 1 behind the ride entrance gate.

Area 4 - an extension to Area 3 and goes right round the area behind the vertical loop / pit. This is also another 25mins or so queue time & feb you back into Area 3 right by where you left it.

Area 5 - disused for years. This took you from the Nemesis entrance, left, then under the monorail for a big out & back queue that then fed you into the start of Area 3. Again, this was another good 25mins queue time & was only really used in the first few years of Nemesis operation. Some of this queueline was re-used for Sub Terra.

I suspect what the photo shows is Area 1 queue full and overflowing, before the ride host on the entrance (if there was one) decided to open Area 3.
Click to expand...
Area 3 has been open on quite a few of my visits, I think; is this the one where you turn left from the Nemesis entrance?
 
I think the Nemesis queue lines were renumbered when Air opened. Area 1 was right from the entrance, area 2 was left from the entrance, and area 3 an extension to area 2.
 
Kraken27 said:
I doubt that. If Area 1, 3 & 4 are all open and full you are looking at 90mins (before FastTrack is factored in). All the Nemesis Ops know this and no way would they call in a 25min queue to Control.

Area 1 - from the Nemesis ride entrance turning right and heading down into the pit and then up to the station is about 20mins on 2 train operation. Add on a little for Fastrack merge-point.

Area 2 - closed when Air was built, but it was basically an extension to Area 1 and went beyond the Nemesis garage, then double backed to the station behind the stall-turn (it can still be seen, overgrown). This was about 10mins.

Area 3 - go from the ride entrance and turn left, up the steps then go round the area near the first drop. This is about 25mins extra queue time & rejoined you into the start of Area 1 behind the ride entrance gate.

Area 4 - an extension to Area 3 and goes right round the area behind the vertical loop / pit. This is also another 25mins or so queue time & feb you back into Area 3 right by where you left it.

Area 5 - disused for years. This took you from the Nemesis entrance, left, then under the monorail for a big out & back queue that then fed you into the start of Area 3. Again, this was another good 25mins queue time & was only really used in the first few years of Nemesis operation. Some of this queueline was re-used for Sub Terra.

I suspect what the photo shows is Area 1 queue full and overflowing, before the ride host on the entrance (if there was one) decided to open Area 3.
Click to expand...
Rode it twice today. Area 3 open for the first ride, Area 3 and 4 for the second one.

I left at 3pm. The culprit today was school visits. Two of the coach parks were totally full.

Managed to get 11 rides in total in the 5 hours I was there, no no complaints really
 
Yeah been a lovely day to be fair, and got a decent number of rides in (single ride queue for smiler helped a lot).

Got an ice cream sundae from burger kitchen for £1 (80p with pass holders discount) which I was totally chuffed with.

Galactica queue was moving very very slowly on 2 train, 2 station operation. Batcher didn't put any effort into filling seats either.

Oblivion on the other hand with both stations open was doing an amazing job churning through the queue. The team were working hard.

I've never had such an awful ride on hex though. Several kids using phone torches, all loudly shouting over the audio. Was really disappointed by that.
 
Adding to the Nemesis queue discussion, I've heard the section of queue to the left of the entrance as far as the top of the steps referred to something like 2a in the past, not sure if that was ever used officially.

The last time I went through what is now the full queue line was on a fireworks Saturday in about 2014, it was probably only half full in total but took a staggering 2 hours (was about an hour after getting back to the entrance, should only take 25min from there). The fastrack queue was back almost to the main entrance too. Worst Nemesis queue I've ever experienced.

As of this year, the final extension has been substantially shortened after being out of use entirely last season. I'd estimate it would now be around 90 min from the entrance through all extensions based on peak fastrack allocations.
 
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