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2019: General Discussion

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@John_P I was about to say the same thing!

Why does the council want it removed?

I also remember seeing it in the documents but I thought it was going to be moved rather than removed
 
I think it was more to do with the views across the Towers and having Spinball in prominent view is not considered appropriate.

Rob has written a good article on the Alton Towers Planning Restrictions. Here's a relevant extract:

There have been a number of rides built at Alton Towers under the GPDO. These include Sonic Spinball, Rita and Octonauts Rollercoaster Adventure. ...

However just because development is permitted in these areas does not mean Alton Towers can go ahead and build anything. Spinball was a bad example of how to use these permitted development rights. Although it fitted the criteria at the time (this area of the park was not previously a modified permitted development area) it was a large ride in a sensitive area of the park; close to views across the lake to the historic Towers buildings. The council have and continue to be keen for Alton Towers to remove Spinball and the development rights have been modified accordingly here since.
 
Ryan B said:
I'd rather have a couple of flats than spinball to be honest. I do like it, but it isn't worth the queue, and capacity is dire. stick a couple of breakdances there, and I'll be happy. The larger kids have a relatively decent coaster offering with Thirteen, RMT, and Wickerman. They don't have anything apart from enterprise and the blade which is pathetic in its current form.
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Maybe i've been lucky, but apart from one 45 minute wait i've never had to queue for it for longer than 20 minutes
 
I rode Spinball a couple of times over fireworks weekend and didn't wait more than about 30min for it, the queue was consistently shorter than either of the other two 1.2m coasters despite it having the lowest theoretical capacity of the 3.
 
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...e-disaster-slump-trade-Alton-Towers-told.html

Alton Towers has had a second attempt to cut its tax bill turned down after a court ruled that its owners were wrong to blame a horrific rollercoaster crash for a slump in trade.


The theme park’s owners said it suffered a downturn because of a highly-publicised catastrophe three years ago that left Leah Washington, then 17, and Vicky Balch, 20, requiring partial leg amputations.


Alton Towers owner Merlin Entertainments argued that its £4 million business rates bill should be reduced because potential visitors had been put off using the rides and that it had also decided to rein back marketing because of the crash. Its first attempt failed in April.
At the second attempt, Ian Crabbe, a divisional director speaking for Merlin, said the company was ‘cognisant of not necessarily making a big deal out of big coasters for a while’.

He said queue times at the park reduced by 26 per cent after the fall in visitor numbers following the crash in June 2015.

But in a judgment released last week a tribunal found there had been similar falls in visitor numbers in the years before the crash that were likely due to rival attractions.

It said in such cases a ‘material change in circumstances’ did not occur.

The company said ‘thousands of companies have requested a reassessment of the rates they pay’ as bills have soared.

It added: ‘We appealed the rates decision because it does not reflect Alton Towers’ historical performance. This in no way diminishes our responsibility for what happened or any liability in relation to the accident.
 
That seems a pretty high tax bill for a leading player (in this country) in a fantastic industry that covers so many different jobs and relies on a hefty cashflow to keep it all going. It's the one area I do have sympathy for Merlin, surely other parks don't get such high rates?

But at the same time, Merlin just cannot keep on blaming poor performance on the crash and I'm glad this was made clear in the findings. When are we going to see this excuse die off?

I love Ian Crabbe's way of putting it "We're cognisant of not necessarily making a big deal out of big coasters for a while" haha! At least he has a sense of humour

I think the Wicker Man's dialled back marketing shows how you don't need to WAY overhype a coaster with fake graphics and ludicrous claims. Just build a good ride, show it off and let people enjoy it. The fewer lies and exaggerations in this world of advertising the better in my opinion!
 
If they stopped treating guests like walking talking wallets and actually generated a guest experience, the results would speak for themselves and they wouldn't have to worry about clutching at straws or making every excuse known to man. It seems to work quite well for the company that Merlin claim to be second only to, alongside many other highly successful individual parks.
 
To be fair, Disney are masters of doing both the guest experience AND treating you like a wallet...

But people who are enjoying themselves (or are being pestered by their kids) are more likely to spend money at the end of the day...
 
Good to see that tax appeal was refused on that argument. The courts fined the company for operating failures, they should not get the cash back in lower business rates.
Wickerman shows the park can increase demand by improving the product and intelligent marketing. The best hope for AT improving is BPB continuing to invest and enhance, and being a threat. It doesn't look like either park will see much change for 2019 unfortunately... maybe 2020.
 
AT86 said:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...e-disaster-slump-trade-Alton-Towers-told.html

Alton Towers has had a second attempt to cut its tax bill turned down after a court ruled that its owners were wrong to blame a horrific rollercoaster crash for a slump in trade.


The theme park’s owners said it suffered a downturn because of a highly-publicised catastrophe three years ago that left Leah Washington, then 17, and Vicky Balch, 20, requiring partial leg amputations.


Alton Towers owner Merlin Entertainments argued that its £4 million business rates bill should be reduced because potential visitors had been put off using the rides and that it had also decided to rein back marketing because of the crash. Its first attempt failed in April.
At the second attempt, Ian Crabbe, a divisional director speaking for Merlin, said the company was ‘cognisant of not necessarily making a big deal out of big coasters for a while’.

He said queue times at the park reduced by 26 per cent after the fall in visitor numbers following the crash in June 2015.

But in a judgment released last week a tribunal found there had been similar falls in visitor numbers in the years before the crash that were likely due to rival attractions.

It said in such cases a ‘material change in circumstances’ did not occur.

The company said ‘thousands of companies have requested a reassessment of the rates they pay’ as bills have soared.

It added: ‘We appealed the rates decision because it does not reflect Alton Towers’ historical performance. This in no way diminishes our responsibility for what happened or any liability in relation to the accident.
Click to expand...

Ian Crabbe quotes queue times being 26% down. I know what he's trying to say but I would not use queue times as part of the equation on how well the park is doing. In fact long queue times mean that the park is not being operated efficiently and there are not enough attractions in relation to park capacity.

Guest numbers, spend per head, guest satisfaction and return visits denote how well a park is doing not queue times.

Will Merlin ever realize that long queue times are bad for the park?
More time in queues = less likely to return due to bad experience.
More time in queues = less spend on F&B, midway etc.

I'm sure they would argue that long queue times = fastrack sales. Fastrack should only be a luxury for those that can afford it, not a necessity to ensure you get all the rides done in a day.
 
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I suspect they decided to use the measure of queue times as they did not want to reveal the figures for falls in guest numbers, revenue etc. Merlin only seem to report figures at RTP level, indivual park performance is not released.
 
It’s quite ridiculous really. When Merlin released their trading updates, they specifically mentioned the “continued recovery” of Alton Towers post Smiler incident, and the success of “product investments” like Wicker Man and good weather during the summer, all as factors contributing to increased visitor numbers. And god knows where they have got the idea of reduced queue times from... :tearsofjoy:
 
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