2021: General Discussion

[jon81uk]

I am hopeful that this wreckless ideology to hit "1,000 rooms because Europa-Park have that many" has vanished.

Europa-Park is not Alton Towers. They are entirely different propositions.

And if they are adding rooms it should have been more rooms and the associated catering facilities rather than some not really accommodation and not really camping sheds.

 

[Islander]

For starters, the amount is set by the H&S executive, based on fire and evacuations regulations and other factors. Not Towers themselves. It will be in their insurance and licences that allow them to operate a visitor attraction.

You could have 30 new queue lines if you want. But they would not be allowed to put more people into the park in a given day. Because if they needed to evacuate the park in an emergency, those extra queue lines with all those extra people, become irrelevant, infact hinder an evacuation. It does not matter if you have 30 or 60 thousand people, if the place needed to be evacuated in a hurry, all those people are still held up by the same exit choke points and places where crowds could crush, infact, increasing the amount of people allowed in the park based on ride amount, would be a silly and backwards thing to do as it would put more pressure on these choke points. If they could increase the ability for people to exit the park, they might be allowed an increase.

You're very much missing the point here.

Of course there's a top-line, upper H&S limit on the park attendance, but the actual limit set by the park themselves will be considerably lower, for a number of factors, most notably parking capacity, and total capacity of rides and attractions.

It's that park-set capacity that is being discussed here, and, car-parking-depending, the addition of extra fairground rides could very well allow the park to look at that, their own upper limit, and increase it.

The H&S limit likely hasn't changed much, if at all, in the last however many years. But the park will cap attendance way, way before that.

 

[Matt.GC]

Unfortunately, as a pessimist, I don't share any hope for the 2021 season. But I do accept that there's been some green shoots. Last season we had reasonably decent operations, much better opening hours and a new event. This fair ground flat idea also seems to have some thought being put behind the large holes in the lineup.

Who knows, maybe a collapse in CAPAX cash available will mean we get some small themed flats and little gaps filled by attractions such as GGTR over the next few years as opposed to splashing a huge wad of cash on a new coaster. May even get some much needed upkeep around the park. Perhaps the park only being able to afford little things, will mean we'll actually get much needed expenditure on little things.

I just fear that it's too late and last decades policy of cutting their way to prosperity has painted the park into a corner it can't get out of.

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[Benjsh]

I think some of you forget that there was a huge global financial meltdown in 2008/2009 and that impact is arguably still felt to the days right up to covid times.

Wages haven't gone up with inflation. Jobs have been lost left right and centre. Mortgages becoming harder and harder to get for young people. Families just haven't had the money for days out that they once did.

Obviously the park have made some poor decisions too but I think theme park attendance has definitely been effected but the financial crisis over the last 10 years.

 

[AstroDan]

I think some of you forget that there was a huge global financial meltdown in 2008/2009 and that impact is arguably still felt to the days right up to covid times.

Wages haven't gone up with inflation. Jobs have been lost left right and centre. Mortgages becoming harder and harder to get for young people. Families just haven't had the money for days out that they once did.

Obviously the park have made some poor decisions too but I think theme park attendance has definitely been effected but the financial crisis over the last 10 years.

I was under the impression that Merlin's UK attractions had done quite well in the wake of the financial crisis, as people stayed at home more rather than going abroad.

I could be wrong, of course.

 

[tayspru]

So have the flats been added to give people more things to do , or have they been added so they can let more people in?

I was under the impression it was the former, as an alternative to setting up virtual queueing , having more rides for the same number of people as last year means people will be more spread out right ?

 

[AT86]

I think it’s a bit of both.

 

[MellowPasta]

They’ll certainly help break the day up abit.

I’ve been before with people not massively into theme parks, who’ve moaned that a queue is too long, refused to queue, walked around for ages, refused another queue because it’s too long. When you spend that much time walking you may aswell have just joined one.

These filler rides will definitely help to a degree. They may not cut the big coaster queues down but will give more options, which is what the park desperately needs.

 

[Benjsh]

I was under the impression that Merlin's UK attractions had done quite well in the wake of the financial crisis, as people stayed at home more rather than going abroad.

I could be wrong, of course.

Of course some will have done but other people went abroad and had to cut back elsewhere i.e. trips to towers. Works both ways.

I can only speak for Manchester n Liverpool airports but they were as busy as hell every time I visited them in the last decade. Definitely no shortage of people flying in the north west.

 

[Matt.GC]

I think some of you forget that there was a huge global financial meltdown in 2008/2009 and that impact is arguably still felt to the days right up to covid times.

Wages haven't gone up with inflation. Jobs have been lost left right and centre. Mortgages becoming harder and harder to get for young people. Families just haven't had the money for days out that they once did.

Obviously the park have made some poor decisions too but I think theme park attendance has definitely been effected but the financial crisis over the last 10 years.

Yet they had over 3 million visitors just 2 years after said crash and spent the next decade flushing all their gains down the toilet.

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that the aftermath of 2007/2008 crash has changed things forever and has been understated (something it seems most global politicians don't understand, but Brexit, Trump, Corbyn etc phenomena is a whole other can of worms), using it as an excuse for poor business decisions is a bit 'dog ate my homework'. My previous employer used it as a sob story for years of poor results, despite some of it's competitors doing very well. The Cameron government used similar excuses for lackluster growth.

There's just as much money out there as there was before the financial crisis (ignoring inflation, with QE there's technically more), it's just in the hands of different people. Loads of businesses have thrived at the expense of others who were unable to adapt. "We had to cut our cloth because it's tough out there" is just an excuse. Altons problems are entirely manufactured by Merlin. Disney's American parks and Europa thrived pre Covid, closer to home, as has Paultons

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[jon81uk]

I’ve been before with people not massively into theme parks, who’ve moaned that a queue is too long, refused to queue, walked around for ages, refused another queue because it’s too long. When you spend that much time walking you may aswell have just joined one.

I hate hearing people describe a day out to a theme park with that attidtude, "all the queues were too long so we didn't ride anything", but you know what happens if you join a queue, there is a ride at the end of it! Continuously wondering around because you don't want to commit to joining any queue sounds like a miserable day to me, just pick a ride and wait for it!

I think those people are often the ones who state they couldn't possibly visit without Fasttrack and why should they HAVE to pay £20 to skip the queues, without realising that if Fasttrack was cheaper everyone would get it and therefore it wouldn't work and if fewer people have Fastttrack then main queue moves quicker.

 

[MellowPasta]

I hate hearing people describe a day out to a theme park with that attidtude, "all the queues were too long so we didn't ride anything", but you know what happens if you join a queue, there is a ride at the end of it! Continuously wondering around because you don't want to commit to joining any queue sounds like a miserable day to me, just pick a ride and wait for it

Oh yes. A lesson learned not to jump at an opportunity to go just because people you used to work with were going

Back to the flats, It will be nice to see some much needed movement in Forbidden Valley. While it will be no Ripsaw, at least it won’t feel as much of a ghost town hopefully.

 

[Ethan]

I hate hearing people describe a day out to a theme park with that attidtude, "all the queues were too long so we didn't ride anything", but you know what happens if you join a queue, there is a ride at the end of it! Continuously wondering around because you don't want to commit to joining any queue sounds like a miserable day to me, just pick a ride and wait for it!

It does depend on how long the wait is though. If the queues for everything is long then yes you'll have to queue up for something rather than walking around aimlessly. However, if you walk over to a ride but its got a bigger queue than something else then you're obviously going to leave that area to go to the ride with the shorter wait

 

[jon81uk]

It does depend on how long the wait is though. If the queues for everything is long then yes you'll have to queue up for something rather than walking around aimlessly. However, if you walk over to a ride but its got a bigger queue than something else then you're obviously going to leave that area to go to the ride with the shorter wait

That is true, but (for example) skipping Nemesis because it has a 90 minute wait as Spinball has a one hour wait is still madness as it will take 20 minutes to walk over to Spinball. Also often those complainers will do that and head to Spinball, which now has a 90 minute queue so decide to walk back to the Rapids instead. As Matt stated, the constant walking is worse than waiting an extra half hour in a queue.
But going on Air as it has a shorter wait than Nemesis makes sense as they are close by.

 

[Ethan]

That is true, but (for example) skipping Nemesis because it has a 90 minute wait as Spinball has a one hour wait is still madness as it will take 20 minutes to walk over to Spinball. Also often those complainers will do that and head to Spinball, which now has a 90 minute queue so decide to walk back to the Rapids instead. As Matt stated, the constant walking is worse than waiting an extra half hour in a queue.
But going on Air as it has a shorter wait than Nemesis makes sense as they are close by.

I was with you until you said 90 minute wait for Nemesis. I don't know what days you're going to the park but I don't think I've ever seen nemesis above 60 mins in the flesh. Yes I know it was just an example and I agree with it but think we all know that nemesis never gets a queue

 

[jon81uk]

I was with you until you said 90 minute wait for Nemesis. I don't know what days you're going to the park but I don't think I've ever seen nemesis above 60 mins in the flesh. Yes I know it was just an example and I agree with it but think we all know that nemesis never gets a queue

Just replace the word Nemisis with Rita then. It was an example of walking from one side of the park to the other side of the park in search of a shorter wait that you then spend more time walking than you would have waiting.

 

[rob666]

I was with you until you said 90 minute wait for Nemesis. I don't know what days you're going to the park but I don't think I've ever seen nemesis above 60 mins in the flesh. Yes I know it was just an example and I agree with it but think we all know that nemesis never gets a queue

Three and even four hours in its first few seasons.
Spent half the summer holidays in that line, they just kept on making additions to the queueline.
Round the back, then off to the left, then round the back again from the station, the line went on forever.
Todays usual line is about one tenth of the old one.

 

[Ethan]

Three and even four hours in its first few seasons.
Spent half the summer holidays in that line, they just kept on making additions to the queueline.
Round the back, then off to the left, then round the back again from the station, the line went on forever.
Todays usual line is about one tenth of the old one.

And yet enthusiasts still claim Nemesis is the most popular ride. You don't see it getting those queues anymore do you

 

[jon81uk]

And yet enthusiasts still claim Nemesis is the most popular ride. You don't see it getting those queues anymore do you

Long queues doesn't mean its popular, just that more people want to ride than the throughput can handle.

 

[rob666]

And I don't think many see it as the most popular anymore, just the best on the park.