• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

2022: General Discussion

Status
This topic has been locked. No further replies can be posted.
Yeah sounds like John was consulted a few years ago asking what it should be replaced with! Things could have been very different. I would have thought if they decided to replace it then it would probably have gotten torn down at the end of this season!
 
Danscott22 said:
Yeah sounds like John was consulted a few years ago asking what it should be replaced with! Things could have been very different. I would have thought if they decided to replace it then it would probably have gotten torn down at the end of this season!
Click to expand...
Honestly I don't think anyone would have wanted that, why tear down your best coaster just to put another one in its place that's probably going to be worse?

I'm glad they saw sense.
 
very unpopular opinion but I think they should replace it!

I think it’s a waste of an opportunity to create something new. knocking it down to rebuild a carbon copy of the same coaster is going to cost a whole lot, and it would have been more exciting in my opinion seeing a whole new coaster.

Theme parks are about creativity and ambitious new ideas. Why limit that by recycling the same idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Towers jamie said:
very unpopular opinion but I think they should replace it!

I think it’s a waste of an opportunity to create something new. knocking it down to rebuild a carbon copy of the same coaster is going to cost a whole lot, and it would have been more exciting in my opinion seeing a whole new coaster.

Theme parks are about creativity and ambitious new ideas. Why limit that by recycling the same idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Waste of an opportunity? It’s an absolute classic iconic ride that is beloved by many. Sure, they could tear it down and replace it with a new coaster but there’s no guarantee that you’d get something that was any better. Just look at the plans for the Jumanji coaster at Chessington, imagine how gutted you’d be if we lost Nemesis for something like that. It shouldn’t really be a case of Merlin having to rip out Nemesis to get a new coaster, there are several solutions for where they could build SW9 without having to pull down Nemesis.

And it’s not really “recycling the same idea” either, it’s retracking the ride so it can last for many more years and perform well going on in to the future. Maintenance, preservation, and minor tweaks to beloved rides are part of the industry. It’s not like it’s some janky old cookie cutter SLC that they are spending the money on just for the sake of it, it’s a very important ride.
 
Last edited:
Towers jamie said:
very unpopular opinion but I think they should replace it!

I think it’s a waste of an opportunity to create something new. knocking it down to rebuild a carbon copy of the same coaster is going to cost a whole lot, and it would have been more exciting in my opinion seeing a whole new coaster.

Theme parks are about creativity and ambitious new ideas. Why limit that by recycling the same idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Refurbishing an existing coaster is a very very long way from 'rebuilding a carbon copy' in the same place. A new coaster could be built literally anywhere else in the park, without sacrificing one of the park's few real success stories.

Nemesis exemplifies the creativity and ambition which has unfortunately been all too lacking in rmore recent development projects. By the same logic, perhaps we should tear down St Paul's Cathedral and put some 21st century glass monstrosity in its place?

Not sure if you're just being deliberately controversial, but it's pretty ludicrous to suggest getting rid of something just because it isn't new any more when it's actually still pretty groundbreaking and widely considered one of the best of its type.
 
rob666 said:
Deliberately controversial and pretty ludicrous???
Heaven help anyone who holds a different opinion.
How dare they stray from the noble path and have a thought of their own, different from the thoosie majority.
Send Jamie to the Tower (s).
Click to expand...

Says the man who still weeps over the removal of the Wild Mouse at Pleasure Beach!
 
rob666 said:
Deliberately controversial and pretty ludicrous???
Heaven help anyone who holds a different opinion.
How dare they stray from the noble path and have a thought of their own, different from the thoosie majority.
Send Jamie to the Tower (s).
Click to expand...
Better still, anyone who naysays Nemesis on this forum get locked in the Alton Towers Dungeon for all eternity... Now that would be some punishment. (And yes they do still have to pay the upcharge!)
 
Nemesis is not exactly my favourite coaster at Alton Towers (5th out of the big 7, in fact), but I must admit that even I profusely disagree with the assertion that removing it would have been better. Even if it is not my favourite ride at Alton Towers, I know that it is the favourite ride of a considerable proportion of enthusiasts, and even if it might not be the favourite of many non-enthusiasts these days, or not the most popular ride at the park, it is still popular, it still pulls a decent queue, and I think that rightly or wrongly, it does still hold a reputation. There's no real need to remove it, in my eyes; if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Also, I think it would almost be easier to keep Nemesis even if it wasn't so loved as it is. The pit is very much bespokely built for it, and I can imagine that building any kind of replacement ride would come with great difficulty and cost. When you take that into account... would Merlin really be able to afford a ride that would be widely considered an improvement on the existing Nemesis? That pit wouldn't be cheap to infill or re-mould for a new attraction...

I'm not someone who is blinded by nostalgia by any means; if you've read my contributions to the many debates had recently about nostalgia and "bringing back" old attractions (*cough* the "Duel; Time to say goodbye?" thread *cough*), you'll know that I am against nostalgia for the sake of it. I firmly believe in looking forwards rather than backwards, and I believe that "bringing back" older attractions, or saving any older attraction for the sake of it come hell or high water instead of building something new, can be counterintuitive. But I think saving Nemesis is quite a different ball game to simple nostalgia for the sake of it. Even though it isn't my favourite attraction at Alton Towers, it is the favourite of a significant number of people, and it is still a very, very highly rated and unique ride; for that reason, I do not believe that getting rid of it would be a good idea. I firmly support the retrack.

However, I do believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, particularly on a contentious issue such as Nemesis. No matter how much everyone else might disagree with that take.

Also, one thing I would say to counter the "Nemesis should be saved at all costs and live for all eternity" crowd is; if, talking hypothetically, Alton Towers were able to replace Nemesis with a vastly superior ride, a ride that would be one of the best in the world just as Nemesis was back in 1994, and had absolutely no other options in terms of areas to build such an attraction upon, would you still be clamouring for it to be saved? I'm not asking that to try and be confrontational or "stir the pot" or anything, and I apologise if it comes across that way; I'm genuinely curious.

I apologise if my post comes across disparaging or confrontational. I know this will be a contentious topic, and I respect both sides of the argument. I was merely airing my own views.
 
Matt N said:
Nemesis is not exactly my favourite coaster at Alton Towers (5th out of the big 7, in fact), but I must admit that even I profusely disagree with the assertion that removing it would have been better. Even if it is not my favourite ride at Alton Towers, I know that it is the favourite ride of a considerable proportion of enthusiasts, and even if it might not be the favourite of many non-enthusiasts these days, or not the most popular ride at the park, it is still popular, it still pulls a decent queue, and I think that rightly or wrongly, it does still hold a reputation. There's no real need to remove it, in my eyes; if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Also, I think it would almost be easier to keep Nemesis even if it wasn't so loved as it is. The pit is very much bespokely built for it, and I can imagine that building any kind of replacement ride would come with great difficulty and cost. When you take that into account... would Merlin really be able to afford a ride that would be widely considered an improvement on the existing Nemesis? That pit wouldn't be cheap to infill or re-mould for a new attraction...

I'm not someone who is blinded by nostalgia by any means; if you've read my contributions to the many debates had recently about nostalgia and "bringing back" old attractions (*cough* the "Duel; Time to say goodbye?" thread *cough*), you'll know that I am against nostalgia for the sake of it. I firmly believe in looking forwards rather than backwards, and I believe that "bringing back" older attractions, or saving any older attraction for the sake of it come hell or high water instead of building something new, can be counterintuitive. But I think saving Nemesis is quite a different ball game to simple nostalgia for the sake of it. Even though it isn't my favourite attraction at Alton Towers, it is the favourite of a significant number of people, and it is still a very, very highly rated and unique ride; for that reason, I do not believe that getting rid of it would be a good idea. I firmly support the retrack.

However, I do believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, particularly on a contentious issue such as Nemesis. No matter how much everyone else might disagree with that take.

Also, one thing I would say to counter the "Nemesis should be saved at all costs and live for all eternity" crowd is; if, talking hypothetically, Alton Towers were able to replace Nemesis with a vastly superior ride, a ride that would be one of the best in the world just as Nemesis was back in 1994, and had absolutely no other options in terms of areas to build such an attraction upon, would you still be clamouring for it to be saved? I'm not asking that to try and be confrontational or "stir the pot" or anything, and I apologise if it comes across that way; I'm genuinely curious.

I apologise if my post comes across disparaging or confrontational. I know this will be a contentious topic, and I respect both sides of the argument. I was merely airing my own views.
Click to expand...
Good answer Matt, and it's interesting to hear a more balanced viewpoint from someone who isn't a Nemmy fanboy (or fangirl!) but who still thinks it should be preserved.

You're right that the way the ride interacts with the landscape and the topology of the pit would make it very difficult to build anything else in its place without huge expense and a lot of groundwork. I can't help but feel that would so severely limit the possibilities for a new SW that it would likely end in failure or at least go horribly overbudget. Far better to identify another un- or under-developed area of the site for a new attraction in my humble view.

Also regardless one's personal thoughts on it, it's a very well-regarded coaster both among enthusiasts and the GP and it's the real workhorse of the coaster lineup which given the reliability and availability issues the park is experiencing right now is a bit of a godsend.

I suppose you could frame the discussion around "yes but what if they really were going to build something totally out of this world as a replacement" but that's just blue-sky thinking; I think we all know that the park is in no position to throw an unlimited amount of money at such an ambitious project right now. And if it were a question of finding space, well it's a pretty big site and tbh I can think of many other coasters in the park that would be much more logical choices for getting the chop (*cough* Thirteen and Rita).
 
Towers jamie said:
Theme parks are about creativity and ambitious new ideas.
Click to expand...

No they aren't, thet are about entertaining people with rides and experiences. Something doesn't have to be new to achieve that.

DBGTROTD is creative and ambitious (and the future of themeparks...), isn't any fun though while Nemesis still very much is. I know which one I'd rather be in a themepark.

Anyway, it'll probably go backwards for a bit to give marketing something to cling to, so that'd be sort of new!
 
There is a difference between preservation and recreating something out of nostalgia ala the Duel thread.

This is a retrack, not a replication or recreation. It's effectively getting all existing track replaced with brand new like for like. It'll be the same station, the same brake run, the same lift hill, the same bespoke pit and the same profiles on all of it. If Nemesis had long been long removed and the pit (which is an integral part of the ride) had been filled in and they just built a new one from scratch for hell of it then I'd agree it would be a waste.

This isn't that though. It's a partial retrack and technology upgrade of an existing ride.
 
pluk said:
No they aren't, thet are about entertaining people with rides and experiences. Something doesn't have to be new to achieve that.

DBGTROTD is creative and ambitious (and the future of themeparks...), isn't any fun though while Nemesis still very much is. I know which one I'd rather be in a themepark.

Anyway, it'll probably go backwards for a bit to give marketing something to cling to, so that'd be sort of new!
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree, but I also don’t think @Towers jamie is wrong either. Creativity and ambition are definitely two key pillars of the theme park industry in my view.

They should not be the sole pillars for sure (as you say, entertaining people with different experiences is also a key pillar), but I would argue that creativity and ambition are essential in order to keep entertaining people as the years go on. Demands change, technology advances, and the park’s lineup needs to change to reflect that.

If a park coasts off of the value of its old rides forever rather than inventing something new, it will eventually grow dated and stop entertaining people.
 
Status
This topic has been locked. No further replies can be posted.
Top