2023: General Discussion

[evilcod]

And this is a prime example of why we are nowhere near ready for electric vehicles, and why I won't be even considering one any time soon! But that is for another topic.

Worth pointing out that Uttoxeter has gained more since this, there is now:
4 * 150kW chargers at Shell garage
1 * 50kW at Premier Inn
2 * 7kW at Asda
4 * 7kW at Tesco
1 * 50kW at Lidl
1 * 50kW at Trinity Square
4 * 11kW at Aldi
And 10 * 150kW currently being commissioned at the new Starbucks by the train station

The infrastructure is improving very very quickly, Merlin have been left behind up to now and its great to see them getting some but for example Harry Potter Studio Tour has 39 chargers for an attraction that probably has around 2000 people in at a time so Merlin as still way behind some tourist attractions.

 

[John]

Electric cars really aren't that rare nowadays so towers adding a few as a token gesture could prove to be more problematic than having none at all.

Currently everyone knows where they stand - there aren't any chargers so if you can't get there and back on a single charge you have to plan around that. Install a couple and people are going to expect to be able to use them but inevitably they'll either be broken or occupied for the entire day (as people aren't going to want to come back to move their car) which is going to leave a lot of people scrabbling for alternatives

 

[NuttySquirrel]

Electric cars really aren't that rare nowadays so towers adding a few as a token gesture could prove to be more problematic than having none at all.

Currently everyone knows where they stand - there aren't any chargers so if you can't get there and back on a single charge you have to plan around that. Install a couple and people are going to expect to be able to use them but inevitably they'll either be broken or occupied for the entire day (as people aren't going to want to come back to move their car) which is going to leave a lot of people scrabbling for alternatives

It will probably be the case that EV charge points require pre-booking much as you might pre-book express parking. It makes sense really when you think about it given that the park requires entry to be pre-booked as well.

 

[Kraken27]

Center Parcs have installed a load of EV chargers at their villages - these have to be pre-booked as an "activity" on your break & you get the charger for the duration of your stay, i.e. 3 or 4 nights in most cases. The chargers only trickle-charge overnight on cheap electricity.

I totally agree that just putting in a handful of chargers at each Merlin park will cause more problems than they solve. Due to the very nature of a theme park you want to arrive in the morning & "plug-in" for the day to charge your car, then return late afternoon & drive home. If Merlin want guests to move their car part-way through the day to free-up an EV charger maybe they should put them in the Express Parking & offer the same [Express Parking] for free / heavily reduced rate if you've got a charger booked? This would allow them to jump onto the "we're being green" band-wagon.

I agree with the previous comment that this country is nowhere near for the "all new cars must be electric from 2030". This is not a political comment, more fact as things currently stand. The main-dealership garage I got my new car from earlier this year had just had two [admittedly pretty high power] chargers put in & they cost close on £15k each. When Merlin / Towers scrimp on spending on routine maintenance / upkeep of the park, I can't see EV chargers being anywhere on their priority radar (unless someone else pays for them, as is the case with this initial batch of chargers).

It's just like the doomed access road / public transport improvements - that guests have been paying for via the parking charge for over 23years. As soon as Towers realised there was no public money on the table for either, the plans were dropped, as they would be very costly (particularly in the case of an access road) and lead to zero increase in guest numbers / on-park spend. (Put aside the issue of the JCB land). Parking charge remains though as it's just seen as a revenue stream now.

 

[Poisson]

Towers do have the idea site for many chargers though: South car park (unless they plan on building on it) as it almost has 3 sections. The bit near golf, the back part where Nemmy's track was and the bottom section. One could be reconfigured if they really wanted to

 

[Kraken27]

Towers do have the idea site for many chargers though: South car park (unless they plan on building on it) as it almost has 3 sections. The bit near golf, the back part where Nemmy's track was and the bottom section. One could be reconfigured if they really wanted to

I am not saying that Towers don't have space for a very good number of chargers - they do. It will all come down to money - to install a lot of chargers will be hugely expensive & not lead to any real boost in guest numbers for many years. Towers & Merlin prefer a quick return on investment & something they can market as new / a worlds first. A "come and charge your EV at Alton Towers" ad campaign will never happen!

 

[Burks]

What about towers already strained power grid? . . I'm guessing the chargers will be drawn from the hotels power source so might not be as bad as drawing from the park, but still multiple EV's on charge at once must pull alot of amps. .

Then in the summer. . Loads of charge points out in the open with the sun beating down on them, they'll have to have very good heat managment or run the risk of alot of thermal trips?

I'm not at all fussed by EV's myself, being a petrol head, so I've no idea if heat management is an issue with chargers etc. . I may be wrong?

 

[djtruefitt]

My guess is that they will go in express, possibly near the end of the coach park. Then towers can manage who park there, and it will be pre-book only.

I visited quite a few parks last summer in Europe in an electric car and the parks that did have electric chargers they were positioned right at the park entrance.

As for the hotels I think they’ll go in ATH either in the circle car park, or near to the treehouse parking.

 

[rob666]

I looked at getting an electric van about a decade ago, when they got speedy and a reasonable range.
My benchmark was Towers and back...Failed.
Made enquiries about chargers at the Towers.
"In the pipeline, there will be chargers available by the hotels within a couple of years."
Wish I had kept the email to shame them now.
No real profit in it, expensive to install, they don't want to know.

 

[havaska]

A lot of EV chargers are coupled to an extremely large battery that trickle charges itself constantly.

Also it’s really annoying to read the anti EV information being repeated here.

No, petrol cars aren’t being banned in 2030. Just no new *only* petrol cars can be sold from 2030. All existing cars can still be driven and hybrids are still allowed.

Yes the grid can cope. The head of the National Grid has said multiple times that they’re ready.

 

[BarryZola]

It's interesting that they say that about being able to cope when only in the last winter there were 'reports' that we may have a few blackouts due to supply issues. To my knowledge, that didn't happen, but what would have been the result if 50% of cars on the road at the time had been charging daily? Not trying to be argumentative, maybe you could educate us on how those things would tally up?

 

[havaska]

It's interesting that they say that about being able to cope when only in the last winter there were 'reports' that we may have a few blackouts due to supply issues. To my knowledge, that didn't happen, but what would have been the result if 50% of cars on the road at the time had been charging daily? Not trying to be argumentative, maybe you could educate us on how those things would tally up?

I’m no expert about how the grid works so I’ll link you a video that explains it better than I ever could.


From: https://youtu.be/HMIHAJfhJOU

 

[Poisson]

London Power Tunnels are a great idea (especially as they help keep me in a job) but it's the local area grid people are concerned about with extra loads being added. The park struggles enough as it is.

 

[Dave]

They don’t need Uber fast charging at the parks as a car is going to be parked for minimum 6hrs, the draw on the local infrastructure will be fairly minimal overall.

 

[GaryH]

If the country can cope with its electricity demand why do we get annual warnings about black outs and why does the UK have to import power from France due to us not having enough power stations.

I believe if the majority of households had an electric car the country would not be able to cope with the additional demand.

Going back to Alton, I’m guessing the chargers will need to pre bookable. It won’t be like a services where the cars are usually only parked for an hour or less before vacating their space.

 

[rob666]

There weren't any actual blackout warnings, more problems of capacity and storage were raised about a very lengthy cold spell, that didn't happen.
So the "peak flow for a good extended length of time" issue is still there, but loading up cars isn't that problem...car demand is pretty static over time.
Towers actual supply is another matter.

 

[havaska]

If the country can cope with its electricity demand why do we get annual warnings about black outs and why does the UK have to import power from France due to us not having enough power stations.

I believe if the majority of households had an electric car the country would not be able to cope with the additional demand.

Going back to Alton, I’m guessing the chargers will need to pre bookable. It won’t be like a services where the cars are usually only parked for an hour or less before vacating their space.

You believe wrong. The facts say otherwise. See the links below from the National Grid themselves.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/electric-vehicles-myths-misconceptions

https://www.nationalgrid.com/storie...ries/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

I would suggest do some actual research and read the facts. It took me literally seconds to find that on Google.

 

[Katy]

We export power as well as import it over the interconnectors (France and Norway, amongst others).
Whilst the grid can cope, I think the places that will struggle are the local infrastructure i.e. substation to the individual houses, which will need some work should all houses suddenly want to be charging an EV.

 

[Rob]

Can we try and keep discussion to Alton Towers please rather than how the UK infrastructure is going to cope with extra demand from electric vehicles. Please feel free to create a new thread in Corner Coffee to carry on that discussion!

 

[Dave]

And this is a prime example of why we are nowhere near ready for electric vehicles, and why I won't be even considering one any time soon!

Can we try and keep discussion to Alton Towers please rather than how the UK infrastructure is going to cope with extra demand from electric vehicles. Please feel free to create a new thread in Corner Coffee to carry on that discussion!

Absolutely boss (sorry couldn’t resist)