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2023: General Discussion

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Ethan said:
Are we suddenly forgetting the coasters that towers have to offer. Wicker man and Smiler are another level of class and are up there with Nemesis, so I think it's hard for it to go wrong for towers in any season
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I love both of those rides, but it is vital that they have a variety of support rides (getting there but not perfect), affordable accommodation for people who want to stay over, food that doesn't taste like garbage and opening hours which are long enough to not make you feel like you've got to run a marathon to do them all. The park is hitting lots of high points but they are also hitting lots of lows, and the coaster lineup on its own doesn't make it for all of that unfortunately.
 
Ethan said:
Are we suddenly forgetting the coasters that towers have to offer. Wicker man and Smiler are another level of class and are up there with Nemesis, so I think it's hard for it to go wrong for towers in any season
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The Smiler is in a bit of a state these days, definitely needs some TLC to the ride experience and surrounding areas. They have big water drainage issue inside the building as well as the queue line. I find it baffling they pour that much concrete below ground level and not for one second think where is the water going to go?
 
Drainage always has to be considered and managed in the planning of large projects, especially those with steep slopes around them.
The problems occur when said drains, within the concrete plinth, get blocked, by things like small twigs and leaves, there are a few trees around the ride!
Clearing such blockages keeps a lot of small firms in business, but you can have them back for a few more thousands of pounds every few months to manage the problem...but that is literally money down the drain, so they tend to clear them less frequently than they probably should.
Makes a change in closed season to discuss drains on the smiler instead of jetwashing and fungiciding the smiler pit.
 
rob666 said:
Drainage always has to be considered and managed in the planning of large projects, especially those with steep slopes around them.
The problems occur when said drains, within the concrete plinth, get blocked, by things like small twigs and leaves, there are a few trees around the ride!
Clearing such blockages keeps a lot of small firms in business, but you can have them back for a few more thousands of pounds every few months to manage the problem...but that is literally money down the drain, so they tend to clear them less frequently than they probably should.
Makes a change in closed season to discuss drains on the smiler instead of jetwashing and fungiciding the smiler pit.
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Jet wash it and it'll turn into a water coaster
 
Other than a dull standard paint job on the monorail station, we still don't really know what else has been done to the park over this closed season yet but I'm willing to bet it won't be much. So based on what we do know, I don't know how anyone can be so quick to predict 2023 being some roaring success so far in advance.

Most of the usuals will of course return, probably in slightly less decent condition that they were the season before. Alton Manor will open which could be great and will most likely be much better than Duel. Sub Terra might make a return which should be another boon. We still don't know much about the events and opening hours could still see some changes.

But we do know that Nemesis will be closed which will be a massive loss. A lot of 10-4 days will return. We know the extortionate hotel prices so far and it looks like the degradation in hotel experiences is continuing at full throttle. We'll probably have yet another year of tacky fun fair flats with no replacements. Evidence from Chessington so far shows that food will likely still be awful, there's no news so far on closed outlets returning and we know there's been another prices hike. Enterprise may or may not return. You can bet your bottom dollar that Walliams World and the Rapids will also return in the same embarrassing state they were in last season.

So some positives for sure, but I can't personally see that they balance out the negatives to make 2023 some beacon of potential excellence. It will be interesting to see what developments surface over the next few weeks in the lead up to opening weekend. But I wouldn't hold your breath thinking there are many more sweeping changes that we don't already know about that change the place much from how it closed out last season.
 
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I think towers has been resting on its laurels for the last few years and it’s starting to wear thin now. Yes nemesis, smiler and wickerman are great coasters but it’s not just about that.

It’s about how long you queue , how value for money you feel your day has been, how many rides you got on, how clean the park is, what the food and drink was like, and then also having the incentive to also stay overnight and continue the good day you had in the hotel.

Take away the headline rides and you’re missing the rest.
 
GaryH said:
I think towers has been resting on its laurels for the last few years and it’s starting to wear thin now. Yes nemesis, smiler and wickerman are great coasters but it’s not just about that.

It’s about how long you queue , how value for money you feel your day has been, how many rides you got on, how clean the park is, what the food and drink was like, and then also having the incentive to also stay overnight and continue the good day you had in the hotel.

Take away the headline rides and you’re missing the rest.
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The good thing about Hex and Oblivion is that they rarely get long lines, which allows you to go on them quite a lot of times. NST and TCaAM will hopefully also boast good experiences, but short queues.
F and B, cleanliness and the hotels still leave a lot to be desired however.
 
GaryH said:
It’s about how long you queue , how value for money you feel your day has been, how many rides you got on, how clean the park is, what the food and drink was like, and then also having the incentive to also stay overnight and continue the good day you had in the hotel.
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Unfortunately queuing can't be avoided sometimes. If you can only visit at peak times, then I think people need to head to the park with realistic expectations about the amount of rides they'll experience. Especially if you intend on getting on the popular rides like smiler and WM, chances are you'll be queuing for them for 1.5/2 hours
 
Ethan said:
Unfortunately queuing can't be avoided sometimes. If you can only visit at peak times, then I think people need to head to the park with realistic expectations about the amount of rides they'll experience. Especially if you intend on getting on the popular rides like smiler and WM, chances are you'll be queuing for them for 1.5/2 hours
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Yes but if there isn’t the variety of rides and therefore almost all the coasters have those 1.5/2 hour queues it just feels like you spent all day queuing. More smaller rides with shorter waits is a good thing.
 
I agree! If all the coasters are over an hour, I'll want a dark ride, or a flat ride, or a water ride to avoid waiting an obscene amount of time. They are getting there with the dark rides, but the flats have so far to go until they have a satisfactory amount. If the Congo River Rapids was reverted back to its good old days, I'd happily accept that alongside Battle Galleons.
 
Ethan said:
Unfortunately queuing can't be avoided sometimes. If you can only visit at peak times, then I think people need to head to the park with realistic expectations about the amount of rides they'll experience. Especially if you intend on getting on the popular rides like smiler and WM, chances are you'll be queuing for them for 1.5/2 hours
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I think you have been conditioned into accepting this crap by having only ever lived this crap. The one new and shiny thing maybe, but every ride that's even vaguely substantial should not have such a queue and the visitor should not expect them to. It never was this way here, and it still isn't all around the world. This is the untimate Merlinism.
 
pluk said:
I think you have been conditioned into accepting this crap by having only ever lived this crap. The one new and shiny thing maybe, but every ride that's even vaguely substantial should not have such a queue and the visitor should not expect them to. It never was this way here, and it still isn't all around the world. This is the untimate Merlinism.
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Most parks get queues similar to towers. If you went to cedar point you'd be waiting that long for Millenium force or maverick
 
pluk said:
I think you have been conditioned into accepting this crap by having only ever lived this crap. The one new and shiny thing maybe, but every ride that's even vaguely substantial should not have such a queue and the visitor should not expect them to. It never was this way here, and it still isn't all around the world. This is the untimate Merlinism.
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I would say it is normal all around the world to accept some rides will have 90 minute queues and on peak days many rides will have them. The coasters did in the Tussauds days, its not a Merlin thing. Its not just the latest ride that gets the longer queues and its never been that way. What is missing is the smaller shows, rides and attractions with either short or no waits. So you might wait 90 minutes for Wickerman, Smiler and Nemesis, but a short wait for Ripsaw and no wait for the pirate show.
 
I accept you have to queue at peak times. 90 minutes say for a big ride, but past summer we saw queues in excess of 2 hours on peak days for many of the rides not just the big ones which to me suggests there aren’t enough support rides to soak up the volume of guests attending the park.
 
Ethan said:
Most parks get queues similar to towers.
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No they don't.

Of course individual headline and new attractions will attract huge queues, I'm not disputing that that always has been the case and always will.

But Towers often has times when all vaguely substantial attractions have hour plus wait times, when that hour will be 20% of your day on park, when throughputs could be much higher (so waits correspondingly shorter) if operations weren't so poor with fastrack and RAP unmanaged.

You don't have to go back far at all to a time when this wasn't the case, and don't have to travel too far to somewhere it still isn't.

The 2 examples you give have average wait times around 40 minutes and mostly peak around an hour according to queuetimes.com, in a park that dwarfs tours in support ride options and has around twice as many hours in its operating day.
 
I do agree somewhat that you will expect some long queues on peak days at Towers to be fair. But then to back up @pluk conditioning point, there was a time when the park attracted a higher number of visitors, you had until 7pm to ride them and you could take a break from the queues by choosing one of the various in park dining options, having a go on Toyland, a blast on Ripsaw or watch a 4d film.

If we're comparing Towers against the low bar set at Chessington, Thorpe and Flamingo Land then you could consider this a win. But I've been to DLP, Efteling, Phantasialand and Europa on fairly brisk days and looked back at the 120 min + stated app queues at Towers where guests have fewer options of much else to do instead of waiting in them by comparison. It's just accepted it seems that this is what Towers is like these days.
 
Towers do need more supporting rides I agree of course. Will it happen any time soon though? I doubt it. There's been many years now where enterprise and blade are the only flats on park. The retro rides don't have good enough throughputs so they ideally need to be replaced
 
With regards to support attractions - I see Curse at Alton Manor as one (after the initial hype has died down at least), and the potential of something happen in the Sub-Terra shed as another. So in that sense, surely the park are getting ahold of the filler ride idea?

...except, Curse is a retheme of 30yr old ride, and whatever is happening in Sub-Terra essentially is as well. So we're not necessarily gaining any new fillers just yet, but seeing the existing ones tarted up a bit. I'd love to see a new permanent flat or two join the mix when Nemesis returns, but I'd be doubtful of that. Whether they actually will install something to pass the time remains to be seen.
 
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