[2023] The Curse at Alton Manor

[Matt N]

In fairness, I do fully agree that going full on with a dark horror theme would not be a good move for this retheme. I hope they keep firmly to JW’s “spooky but friendly” mantra rather than going for flat out “blood and guts” horror movie material.

I do think it’s important for the ride to retain some sense of whole family appeal, and if I had it my way, I would do something that tackles the spooky house type ride from more of a fun, whimsical “spooky” standpoint than a flat out horror standpoint.

However, I do think the ride could change slightly in tone/style compared to the original HH and Duel and not lose any of the previous iterations’ best qualities.

Personally, I’d like to see them do something a little more focused on story/ambience building and a little less focused on jumpscares than the previous iterations of the ride. I feel like this would broaden the appeal of the ride even further (I know plenty of people who wouldn’t go into the HH/Duel on the basis of how scary it was… my Nan refused to go into Duel on our recent trip due to it being too scary), and it would maintain the all ages aspect of the current ride.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d keep a couple of jumpscares in there, but I wouldn’t make the ride live and die with its jumpscares like the previous iterations of the ride arguably did to an extent.

 

[ChristmasPud]

You could argue the mummy ride at universal is scary but accommodates for all ages.

The mummy is a very different kind of ride to Haunted House and is also at a different kind of park, where it suits being more frightening. That said it still has a twist of humour and camp (like the movie) which works in its favour!

I think as long as its balanced and the tone is right it could be great.

you only have to look at film ratings (rated 18 pretty much none existent now)

This is a completely untrue comparison because films are more often now deliberately AVOID a higher rating, so that more people are able to come see it and make more money. Not because audiences have become desensitised. The things that warrant an 18 rating are still valid but hardly what youd put in a broadly appealing movie.

Trying to do a hardcore horror in Haunted House would be a waste of potential and be using a ride system that isnt suited to it, at a park that doesnt need it. It doesnt mean it cant be scary

 

[GaryH]

Whatever is being done it will no doubt be family friendly

 

[earthpig]

Needs to get rid of the tacky neon parts and the moving paintings. Tidy up the queue line and improve the effects.
Looking forward to what they do, when I was kid it was just the right level of being scary / spooky duel was just noisy and annoying.

 

[Trooper Looper]

There's been a few people online now that have been saying that Duel will have a new ride system and and all the scenes will be gutted while saying their info comes from a reliable source. Nit vague, I know. Do you think its Factual, debatable, or a load of rubbish to you folks?

 

[Praxithea]

There's been a few people online now that have been saying that Duel will have a new ride system and and all the scenes will be gutted while saying their info comes from a reliable source. Nit vague, I know. Do you think its Factual, debatable, or a load of rubbish to you folks?

Ughhhh, nothing grinds my gears more than “a friends cousins brother saw something that looked like one of the ride cars by the side of duel yesterday - it’s definitely being re tracked and having new ones!” Unless there’s a reliable, proven source for things like that, I’m not buying it. I personally think the ride system is brilliant and although dated is likely going to survive the revamp. I’d rather see it kept and the money spent on other things than an expensive new trackless system installed - the budget seems generous, but not limitless. Anyhow, I’m digressing. I’m happy to speculate that I *think* some scenes and the ride system will remain, and happy to discuss speculation about the complete opposite, but it is just that - speculation, unless some proof can be offered

 

[rob666]

There's been a few people online now that have been saying that Duel will have a new ride system and and all the scenes will be gutted while saying their info comes from a reliable source. Nit vague, I know. Do you think its Factual, debatable, or a load of rubbish to you folks?

Another load of rubbish.
Make things up at random, bung it on the internet.
There are a few people online that say the earth is flat.

 

[Trooper Looper]

Another load of rubbish.
Make things up at random, bung it on the internet.
There are a few people online that say the earth is flat.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the same. I really doubt John Wardley would want to help them tear down one of his own attractions. At the very most, I expected the ride system fully refurbed and only half of the HH scenes remaining. But my money is going in that their budget is prob 1.5 million.

 

[Rick]

If the budget is along the lines of what has been rumoured, a new ride system feels unlikely.

 

[Rob]

I am 99.9% sure that there is not going to be a new ride system. I am equally certain that the building is not going to be gutted.

 

[Dave]

To replace that ride system in 2022 would cost £8-10 million. There is no way they are doing that. At best the control systems are getting refreshed.

There is also no need to gut the entire theming inside, most of the static scenes are still absolutely fine if they actually improve the lighting on the ride.

 

[Matt N]

I remember one of the TS team previously quoting an estimated budget of £3-5m for this project.

I’d be highly doubtful that the ride system is being replaced on that budget (and in the anticipated timeframe), but it could pave way for a very comprehensive thematic overhaul, particularly given that there are (likely) no IP costs to contend with here like there has been with past Merlin dark ride rethemes.

In real terms, that’s at least 2-3 times what the Duel revamp cost even when you adjust for inflation; I remember someone saying to me that the Duel revamp was no more than £1m in 2003 money, which would equate to £1,630,606.20 in 2022 money (https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator). And that 2-3 times figure assumes that Duel cost the full £1m in the first place… which I can believe that it may well not have done. That would make this refurb be even more times higher in budget than Duel… if the budget was as low as, say, £500k in 2003 money for Duel (which equates to £815,303.20 in 2022 money), then the mooted budget would be 4-6 times higher for this revamp when adjusting for inflation!

 

[QTXAdsy]

For those about any scenery removal, I suspect anything going out will be related to anything Duel related if the pictures of gutted scenery seen lying outside were from the Duel finale.

If zombies are next to follow then we can be sure that a full Duel removal is taking place right now as we speak.

Honestly what I'd like to see back which might raise a few eyebrows is the portraits with the eyes looking back on you. Honestly it was such a subtle yet unnerving feature of being watched as a kid that really put the fear in me, far more so than the CGI portraits they have now. Wonder what happened to the original portraits?

 

[Skyscraper]

For those about any scenery removal, I suspect anything going out will be related to anything Duel related if the pictures of gutted scenery seen lying outside were from the Duel finale.

If zombies are next to follow then we can be sure that a full Duel removal is taking place right now as we speak.

Honestly what I'd like to see back which might raise a few eyebrows is the portraits with the eyes looking back on you. Honestly it was such a subtle yet unnerving feature of being watched as a kid that really put the fear in me, far more so than the CGI portraits they have now. Wonder what happened to the original portraits?

I think they were destroyed sadly. They're mentioned in the Smoke & Mirrors book.

 

[Rick]

Ripping everything out feels like a brave move in a lot of ways, because there is so much there.

Feels unlikely they would build something as a long if starting from scratch today.

 

[Jb85]

With the language they are using and type of marketing....I think it's moving away from families tbh.

RePOSSESSED doesn't scream family. That short clip with the creepy doll doesn't either.p

Yeh....but remember this is the park that advertised Thirteen the way they did

 

[Matt.GC]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the same. I really doubt John Wardley would want to help them tear down one of his own attractions. At the very most, I expected the ride system fully refurbed and only half of the HH scenes remaining.

Whilst I agree that the ride system being replaced is online lies, are you sure to have half the HH remaining is not more your own personal hope rather than expectation?

 

[Matt N]

As @Matt.GC said, I wouldn’t be so sure that the HH scenes will remain mostly intact.

As good as those scenes were in 1992, they are 30 years old now; time has moved on, technology has progressed, and many of the moving props are arguably showing their age a bit now. I’d certainly wager they’re probably a bit tired out from a mechanical standpoint; 30 years of near constant movement for 8 months of the year is bound to take its toll.

I should also point out that if the rumoured budget of £3-5m (as per members of the TS team, who are “in the know” to some extent about what’s happening) is true, then that is likely at least twice what the Duel revamp cost even when adjusting for inflation, if not more (I was told that Duel cost no more than £1m in 2003, likely a fair bit less than £1m in fact, and £1m in 2003 money would be ~£1.6m in 2022 money). What I would say is that if you think about what they actually did when they converted the HH into Duel, that small budget of no more than £1m (no more than £1.6m in 2022 money) went a surprisingly long way given what you’re suggesting Merlin will get out of £3-5m. In 2003, they renovated the lighting throughout the ride, they revamped a fair few of the HH scenes and effects, they demolished and completely replaced a not insignificant portion of the ride, and they fitted an interactive blaster system to it.

With the fact that all of that cost no more than £1.6m in 2022 money, I reckon that the budget, if it is indeed in the £3-5m ballpark that rumours suggest, could go a lot further than you expect. Do I think it will buy a new ride system? Likely not. Do I think it could fund a full in-depth retheme of the existing ride system, however? Definitely. Rethemes cost a lot less than you’d expect, particularly when you don’t have IP licensing costs to contend with.

I obviously know no more than anyone else, but I do feel that this overhaul will be a fair bit more comprehensive than some are expecting. I’m certainly anticipating the most comprehensive overhaul the ride has ever had by quite some margin.

 

[Trooper Looper]

Whilst I agree that the ride system being replaced is online lies, are you sure half the HH remaining are more your own personal hopes rather than expectations?

They could be gutted, but they also might not be gutted. John Wardley is involved with this project, I highly doubt he'd want to see, heck, participate in the demolishing of his own piece of work. Remember when he reacted to Imperial Leathers Bubblewoks redo, he was so upset about it that he was told if he ridden it, he'd be in tears, so he probably hasn't rode it since. He didn't even come to Bubbleworks last day. He's incredibly passionate about his rides no matter their age, but doesn't want to be involved with anything regarding his rides with a negative result to him personally. He'd most likely do the same if Duel was being gutted completely, but he hasn't, he's been participating from what we know so far. Counting the potential chances that Him holding a book of unused ideas was true and actually happened early this year on the ride, he'll probably be wanting to utilise them in this version of The ride along with the coexisting scenes in there currently. It's his House, he mpsy likely knows what's best for the ride.

In terms of @Matt N 'Scenes are 30 years old and are rather worn down, and technology has progressed since then.' I completely understand the first half, but the 'technology has progressed' I don't think you're quite understanding the Haunted House's original intention in terms of execution.

The ride was originally intended to have a simple design technically wise, that's why John wanted it to be a "High Quality Fun Fair Ghost Train." The only things that were technically impressive in the ride was the ride system, the Ghost corridor scare, and the superb lighting Done by John and Rex Studios. Outside of those aspects, John and Keith both wanted to mostly use simple mechanics, illusions, and animatronics. Bubbleworks, a ride both designed by them only opened 2 years prior, and it was quite a bit more advanced. It had water effects, fully working human shaped animatroncis that could move their legs, arms, heads, eyes, mouth etc, and it was a lot more consistent throughout the ride. There was movement everywhere, even in the slightest of small details within the ride.

The Haunted House pretty much had the same budget as Bubbleworks and they could've easily been made more advanced, but they didn't. Most People love the ride because of its simplicity, its clever use of illusions and tricks, its charm, and Character, even when it was a former shadow of itself as Duel. The reason its been getting a widespread negative reputation in the last 3 years us because of its low maintenance and TLC.

If John Burton was intending to rip out Most of the HH scenes, I doubt he'd ask JW for help on the project. Why have John Wardley involved if it isn't anything related to the Original Haunted House in terms of restoration and more ideas. Why advertise Emily Altons phrase 'This is my House' and 'Possessed, I want to play.' If the ride won't even be remotely similar inside next season. It can't be the Haunted House by not being The Haunted House. By that definition, All that'll be left is Emily Alton, and it's name 'The Haunted House.' It's like trying to tell someone that the dish you were given is a ham sandwich when it's clearly corned beef and not ham, it just doesn't cut it. They're both good in different ways, but it's not what People really asked for outside of young roller coaster enthusiasts mostly. Most people just want the guns gone and the ride looking to be looking in a good state from what I've seen on social media.

I could be wrong, I could be right, but for now no one knows, but the likelihood of them Ripping out all of The Haunted House scenes is pretty low with JW being on board, and the only bits we've seen being dumped put are from when it was made into Duel.

There's an entry near the rides station, located in the Poltergeist Room. Its a double fire exit door, they could've easily ripped out the moving walls in there in no time long ago, but they've decided to start with the much larger and more complex Zombie final with all the props, the catwalks near the roof, the great amount of Targets and Wiring. Why start there when they could've started with a smaller, easier to access scene to rip out of right by a double door fire exit? With the gates shut to the facade outside, most people won't even notice them removing it. I know the final has the main garage doors at the back to be accessed by, but getting rid of the more simple and accessible scenes first would've been logical and would save time. Though I am sure a couple of the HH scenes will most likely be going.

All we can do now is wait...

 

[Matt N]

I would not necessarily take John Wardley's supposed involvement as a sure fire sign that the ride will 100% be staying mostly the same.

From what I've seen, John Wardley seems like an open-minded man who is willing to move with the times, even if that involves removing one of his original rides.

It should be noted that in the recent Q&A with TowersTimes, John Wardley commented on the Nemesis retrack and how the idea came about. He said that the park originally went to him to ask him to assist with the development of a Nemesis replacement. Instead of being bereft that they considered removing Nemesis, John implied that he was open-minded and willing to help with a Nemesis replacement if that was what the executives wanted. Ultimately, park surveys suggested that removing Nemesis would have been a bad idea, and the retrack was instead pursued, but I think John's initial open-mindedness toward the prospect of being involved with a Nemesis replacement proves that he isn't necessarily against the removal of his initial attractions in order to further the park's development; his involvement in a Nemesis replacement would have been "participating in the demolition of his own work" as you put it, but he seemed as though he was open-minded to the prospect of replacing Nemesis and being actively involved in developing its replacement before the KPIs and such revealed that removing Nemesis wasn't what guests wanted.

With that in mind, I'm not sure that Wardley being involved necessarily means that they're going to be reverting the ride back to the HH and keeping most of the 1992 scenes the same. John always seems very open-minded and accepting of change in his interviews and Q&As, and I don't see how that would be any different for him with the retheme of Duel.