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[2023] The Curse at Alton Manor

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zeock said:
I have probably mentioned this but, from looking at POV's, the ride that seamlessly combines screens and physical sets the best is easily Pirates of the Caribbean: Battle for the Sunken Treasure at Shanghai Disneyland. That rides shows the potential of screens when done right.

From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TVx9_HGWbs
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I’m sorry, it is good, but just that, good.

I’m with John in that physical effects are just the gold standard. Even the best CGI is still not indistinguishable from reality.

Yes good physical effects are expensive but you get what you pay for!

I go to a theme park to escape not be surrounded by the same stuff we’re looking at all day.

I believe this is also one of the reasons VR rides have failed - people want to experience something they can’t get anywhere else.
 
alextowers said:
I’m sorry, it is good, but just that, good.

I’m with John in that physical effects are just the gold standard. Even the best CGI is still not indistinguishable from reality.

Yes good physical effects are expensive but you get what you pay for!

I go to a theme park to escape not be surrounded by the same stuff we’re looking at all day.

I believe this is also one of the reasons VR rides have failed - people want to experience something they can’t get anywhere else.
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Yep, takes about one millisecond for the average human brain to figure out it's a flat screen. Fine if you're in the cinema but at a theme park you need a bit more depth and movement in scenes.

That Pirate ride is just window shopping, every ones eyes focused on the same set piece.
 
RIPCorky said:
Yep, takes about one millisecond for the average human brain to figure out it's a flat screen. Fine if you're in the cinema but at a theme park you need a bit more depth and movement in scenes.
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I must admit that many of the screens in that ride are obvious to the human eye that they are a flat screen but many of the scenes which include physical sets along with a screen in the background, almost look real. Back to Duel though. I am not completely opposed to screens but I sincerely hope that there won't be an oversaturation of them.
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
Technology moves on…. If your budget and experts allow. Merlin don’t have this luxury backed by one of the biggest companies in the world.
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This is simply not correct. One of the great things about technology is what was expensive years ago, is more accessible and affordable years later.

Technology moves on regardless of budget. You might not be able to use technology on the same level as Disney. But to suggest it doesn't move on regardless is simply not true.
 
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DistortAMG said:
This is simply not correct. One of the great things about technology is what was expensive years ago, is more accessible and affordable years later.

Technology moves on regardless of budget. You might not be able to use technology on the same level as Disney. But to suggest it doesn't move on regardless is simply not true.
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But outdated
 
Has technology really progressed hugely though? For Disney and Universal, definitely, but for Melrin, I believe thats a different story. Take a look at their latest ride, Jumanji The Adventure at Gardaland, their newest Dark Ride. Here's a challenge, count the amount of moving props there are in Jumanji, do the same for the original Haunted House, then compare the numbers.


From: https://youtu.be/Yj2dAH0XSuw



From: https://youtu.be/_71b0KCHoe0


So, for me, I counted 6 moving props as a whole on Jumanji, them being, the hippo that emerges from the pond, the giants head, the 3 spiders that are lowered above you, and the giants hand coming down at you. That's 6 as a whole. For the original Haunted House on opening day if you exclude electric Bill and the Goblin that was located in the Troll bridges place, we'd get 24... them being, oh, boy this'll be a long one, the Poltergeist room if you count that as one, the 2 Grand Hall Demons, the trommel, the Giants 2 sets of fingers and his eye that would follow you, the Giant spider, and the smaller one moving before it, the Ghost Corridor ghost (when it rarely worked) the 3 screaming heads each on am individual swinging arm, the Relocated Troll, the Hooded Monk, The Undertaker, The Maniac in the Garden, the Column Ghost, The 2 heads that'd fly over you in the finale, the falling tree, the falling Gazebo, the Face that opens up, and the Dragon coming out of the gargoyles mouth.

That's quite a difference in numbers, but how about their quality? Well, the Hippo is a prop on a stick that moves towards you with a moving jaw, but the Giants Head is actually really impressive! I still haven't figured out how they managed to make the entire head follow you, but very clever nevertheless. Then there's the 3 spiders, they're just still props that are attached to wire and look to be lowered by pulleys, that's very similar to the smaller spiders in the original HH. The final moving props, the Giants Hand, is again, just a big prop probably on a mechanical arm, well, it looks like it anyway. I didn't count the cobra near the beginning because that's just a still prop that shoots water at you from the mouth.

Now, it wouldn't be as odd if they were on budget for Jumanji, but they weren't, they had a budget of £17.2 million, so I guess the majority of the money went for the ride system. But if you think about it, these are really simple mechanics for the most part that I personally believe are around the same quality of the original Haunted House for the most part if you exclude the Giant Head in Jumanji following you, yet The Giant in the HH followed you, well, his eye did anyway. It really makes me think what they're potentially doing with the supposed £4 million budget on Duel.

Just wanted to say as well that Jumanji The Adventures average rating on Google is 2.3 out of 5, ouch!
 
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RIPCorky said:
But outdated
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Not always no. Technology becomes cheaper over time while also remaining advance.

Take mobile, phones, LED screens and computer chips as three examples.

Counting the moving props is not a good measure. The technology powering and making those props move will have reduced in cost and become much cheaper since 1992.
 
DistortAMG said:
Not always no. Technology becomes cheaper over time while also remaining advance.

Take mobile, phones, LED screens and computer chips as three examples.

Counting the moving props is not a good measure. The technology powering and making those props move will have reduced in cost and become much cheaper since 1992.
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Yet computer chips, OLED screens are at their highest price in decades. Including how currently scarce they are to source (as the demand is so high). I am not so sure it is cheap, tech from 10 years ago is cheap as no one wants it. If you compare TV screens, audio systems, mobile phones all are far more expensive than they ever were.

It’s never been more expensive to refit a ride full of technology and nothing outdated quicker.
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
Yet computer chips, OLED screens are at their highest price in decades. Including how currently scarce they are to source (as the demand is so high). I am not so sure it is cheap, tech from 10 years ago is cheap as no one wants it. If you compare TV screens, audio systems, mobile phones all are far more expensive than they ever were.

It’s never been more expensive to refit a ride full of technology and nothing outdated quicker.
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When you measure the screens and chips performance vs cost. Even though face value is more expensive now, you get much much more performance for that cost than previously. So I stand by what I said.
 
DistortAMG said:
When you measure the screens and chips performance vs cost. Even though face value is more expensive now, you get much much more performance for that cost than previously. So I stand by what I said.
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But more expensive, that’s the point. If you read my post I stated technology moves on and you need a massive budget to stay with it. Merlin don’t have this, if Disney are only just keeping up with it then Merlin can’t compete at that level.
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
But more expensive, that’s the point. If you read my post I stated technology moves on and you need a massive budget to stay with it. Merlin don’t have this, if Disney are only just keeping up with it then Merlin can’t compete at that level.
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The latest technology has always been expensive, that's the point of having the latest gadget, it can be sold at a high price then comes down as it ages
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
But more expensive, that’s the point. If you read my post I stated technology moves on and you need a massive budget to stay with it. Merlin don’t have this, if Disney are only just keeping up with it then Merlin can’t compete at that level.
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Most technology is not measured in just the outright cost. It's measured in cost vs performance, which is the lowest / higest right now than it is has ever been. Meaning you get more bang for your buck than ever before. So I stand by what I said
 
RIPCorky said:
No you really need to go by what's the best technology at the time. That's like comparing computers or cars to those of 30 years ago. You can't.
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Take a hydraulic or pnumatic actuator. They are far more reliable and cheaper now than they were 30 years ago. Because of advancements in technology. That's the point I am getting at.
 
DistortAMG said:
Most technology is not measured in just the outright cost. It's measured in cost vs performance, which is the lowest / higest right now than it is has ever been. Meaning you get more bang for your buck than ever before. So I stand by what I said
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DistortAMG said:
Most technology is not measured in just the outright cost. It's measured in cost vs performance, which is the lowest / higest right now than it is has ever been. Meaning you get more bang for your buck than ever before. So I stand by what I said
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You are comparing a Sinclair C5 to a Tesla….

I’ll leave it there and go back on topic regarding the Duel refurb.
 
Whilst the latest technology at enormous cost can help, it is nothing without creativity, imagination, originality, immersion, emotion, mystery, wonder, magic, etc.

Sometimes a lot can be achieved on a smaller budget. If it's done right, it can live with or beat the big boys.

I'm confident in AT's 3 projects at this time.
 
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