2024: General Discussion

[Matt.GC]

Y’all forgot that Nemesis is one of the best coasters in Europe or something

I'm not sure who on earth Yall is, or indeed what this Something attraction is? Maybe you would be kind enough to elaborate, as this post doesn't make clear what you are saying?

 

[Ethan]

or indeed what this Something attraction is

Something attraction? Got no idea what you’re on about. Oh well

 

[Matt.GC]

Something attraction? Got no idea what you’re on about. Oh well

You mentioned that Yall had forgotten that Nemesis was one of the best coasters in Europe, and that he/she was conflicted between Nemesis or Something?

 

[Ethan]

‘You all forgot that Nemesis is one of the best coasters in Europe or something’ makes sense to me. Nothing about someone being conflicted with Nemesis

You mentioned that Yall had forgotten that Nemesis was one of the best coasters in Europe, and that he/she was conflicted between Nemesis or Something?

 

[Matt.GC]

‘You all forgot that Nemesis is one of the best coasters in Europe or something’ makes sense to me. Nothing about someone being conflicted with Nemesis

I presume you meant that by saying 'or something' you meant 'or something along those lines' or 'something like that' and we're not referring to some coaster we have not heard about that happens to be called 'Something'? But even in that context, I'm simply asking what you meant in that post as it confuses me?

The original poster that you quoted made an opening statement about them personally not seeing the reopening of Nemesis, in isolation, as a sole reason to revisit this year amidst a plethora of other aspects about the park that they deemed disadvantageous. So in that context, I'm struggling to understand what you meant?

Were you trying to say that you disagree because you believe that Nemesis is the best coaster in Europe and is therefore worth a visit on it's own merits, regardless of the other points the OP mentioned? Or that they themselves had previously said that Nemesis was the best coaster in Europe and has since forgotten what they said?

What's the point you are trying to make? Care to elaborate to contribute to the discussion?

 

[rob666]

Get a room you two.

I would like to ride The Curse and Nemesis this season, early on.
But that all comes down to the early reopening of the Skyride.
Following a very lengthy, continuing discussion with guest services, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Dave]

I think if I was traveling more than 2hrs I wouldn’t find 2024’s lineup particularly compelling.

The Nemesis refurb is great, expensive and needed doing so that’s not to say I think the season is bad, but with the loss of flat rides and attractions for the 0.9m-1.3m audience over the last 20 years I wouldn’t blame people waiting and seeing what else is coming before spending a lot of money on travel.

 

[jon81uk]

I think if I was traveling more than 2hrs I wouldn’t find 2024’s lineup particularly compelling.

The Nemesis refurb is great, expensive and needed doing so that’s not to say I think the season is bad, but with the loss of flat rides and attractions for the 0.9m-1.3m audience over the last 20 years I wouldn’t blame people waiting and seeing what else is coming before spending a lot of money on travel.

Even for someone who hasn't visited in five years the only completly new offerings are Gangsta Granny and Curse at Alton Manor really.

 

[Skyscraper]

And

Even for someone who hasn't visited in five years the only completly new offerings are Gangsta Granny and Curse at Alton Manor really.

And Sub Terrible Terra at a push too.

 

[jon81uk]

And

And Sub Terrible Terra at a push too.

That was there before though, I've already done it (admittedly only once before it closed).

Yes those who visited 5-8 years ago wouldn't have done it at all, but there must be others who have done AT a few times before and just done find a compelling reason to return yet.

 

[Ethan]

I presume you meant that by saying 'or something' you meant 'or something along those lines' or 'something like that

Yes you’re correct that’s what I meant. Anyway I do believe Nemesis is worth a visit to Towers by itself because it’s a fantastic coaster. May not be worth it for enthusiasts who have visited the park a lot but for those who haven’t ridden Nemesis in many years I absolutely think it’s worth coming back just to go on it. Not to mention if they haven’t been to the park for a while then they wouldn’t have been on Curse which is another absolute must

 

[havaska]

I only visit once a year and my two favourite rides - Hex and Nemesis - were not available last year. I loved Curse, it’s brilliant. I also really enjoyed SubTerra.

I never rode any of the Retrosquad as they just make me feel sick. Spin & spew

So for me, if Hex reopens, this coming season is quite exciting. I’d love to see a few other flats but if they’re not there it’s not the end of the world.

I usually get my tickets using the two for one offers so I think the price point is ok.

I think the real current price point reflects the current offering.

To be honest, I think they should get rid of the offers, sell the tickets at an increased but fair price point and greatly increase the park offering to reflect this. You get what you pay for.

 

[Ethan]

I thinks it’s safe to assume based on Towers lineups that their key focus is probably thrill seekers and young families. I think for families with children under 1.4 but too big for CBeebies there’s this weird area where there’s only a handful of rides. But I still think you can have a good day regardless of this. Say if you were 1.3 and you rode Wicker man, Th13teen, Spinball, Mine train, Rapids, Curse at alton, Hex, Blade, Flávios and Gangsta granny I think you’ve had a good day. That’s still 10 rides you’ve experienced

 

[James]

*Ahem*

Y’all forgot that Nemesis is one of the best coasters in Europe or something

For myself personally, it takes 3+ hours to travel to Towers. Usually, it’s an overnight stay for me. Nemesis 1.0 I’ve ridden countless of times, in 2024 the ride experience itself will largely be the same. I’m interested in seeing how different the theme is and how Forbidden Valley might change, but that is not enough to get me rushing to buy tickets, book a hotel and arrange annual leave.

Outside of that, Scarefest is usually my go-to event (longer park hours for the win), but even that has stayed stale for so long it’s hard to justify a visit to go through the exact same mazes that have stayed for years on end with no significant changes. Beyond that, Hex and Skyride open are not achievements, like Jon mentions the only ‘new’ attractions in years are Gangsta Granny and The Curse; and the general degrading of Alton Towers by Merlin does not make the place as appealing to visit.

It’s very easy as an annual pass holder and someone who visits regularly to stay it’s worth visiting. As someone who lives no where near and has to do a lot of planning, it becomes a case of assessing the value of a visit to Towers compared to spending my money and time say, on a city break or putting money towards a holiday elsewhere, where I will get better value.

As it stands now, I’m not entirely convinced. Nemesis is great, but the rest of the park is still in a position of crap food, an Halloween event that hasn’t evolved for years, entertainment only for kids, and a poor hotel resort offering where quality has degraded for years.

 

[Craig]

I do think there's a real disconnect between what us as enthusiasts find exciting for the new season and what the general public do.

Most of us have annual passes for the park. Would a chunk of the general public find the return of the an old ride that big of a deal when forking out c£200 for their family to visit, without knowing the detail of what makes Nemesis 2.0 new? It's difficult to say for definite yet, but many wouldn't care - bottom line is it's still a ride they've been on before.

A lot of visitors want something new to make visiting worthwhile. Not reworked like Curse or Nemesis and not reopened like Hex. Events are clearly their attempt at adding value, but that only goes so far. At some point they need to add completely new attractions.

 

[Ethan]

Bottom line is a lot of visitors want something new to make visiting worthwhile. Not reworked like Curse or Nemesis and not reopened like Hex. Events are clearly their attempt at adding value, but that only goes so far. At some point they need to add completely new attractions.

Good job Towers are getting Horizon in 2025/2026. An indoor attraction that will be accessible no matter the weather and will hopefully have a 1.2 height and be family thrill like Wicker so more people can ride it

 

[Matt N]

Bottom line is a lot of visitors want something new to make visiting worthwhile. Not reworked like Curse or Nemesis and not reopened like Hex. Events are clearly their attempt at adding value, but that only goes so far. At some point they need to add completely new attractions.

With this in mind, I do wonder whether pushing Horizon back to 2026 (if this has indeed happened as is commonly suggested) was necessarily the right decision.

As much as the park lacks flat rides, the last major investment was Wicker Man in 2018. 6 years have passed since that point, and if it goes too much longer, they might have to work harder to draw people back.

 

[Craig]

With this in mind, I do wonder whether pushing Horizon back to 2026 (if this has indeed happened as is commonly suggested) was necessarily the right decision.

As much as the park lacks flat rides, the last major investment was Wicker Man in 2018. 6 years have passed since that point, and if it goes too much longer, they might have to work harder to draw people back.

Begrudgingly, yes it is. There's a multitude of reasons, but main one is a new ride of that size only works if you have the rest of the park in the right state to support it. As it stands at the moment, that's far from the case. Tech services can barely get their existing rides open on time and maintain them throughout the day, add in a brand new ride that'll experience the usual teething problems and it's a recipe for disaster.

If they can get the park as a whole in a better position and hopefully an economic outlook that bodes better for guest spend and visitor numbers come 2026 then they're in a much better long term position.

As mentioned, I feel the events are intended to bridge that gap. My worry for 2024 is that there's not going to be much to keep those events fresh and exciting for repeat visits. I'd love to be proven wrong though!

 

[jon81uk]

With this in mind, I do wonder whether pushing Horizon back to 2026 (if this has indeed happened as is commonly suggested) was necessarily the right decision.

As much as the park lacks flat rides, the last major investment was Wicker Man in 2018. 6 years have passed since that point, and if it goes too much longer, they might have to work harder to draw people back.

I don't think a decent new addition such as Horizon will need to work harder to get people back. But they may not increase guest numbers in 2024 and 2025 without something new to advertise other than the return of Nemesis. So visitor numbers might be static for a few years, but hopefully the park overall will improve so when Horizon increases visitor count they can cope!

 

[Matt N]

I don't think a decent new addition such as Horizon will need to work harder to get people back. But they may not increase guest numbers in 2024 and 2025 without something new to advertise other than the return of Nemesis.

That’s more what I meant; sorry, I think I phrased my initial point poorly.

My fear is that if the park goes too long without marketable draws, they may fall into a rut of stagnant or decreasing guest figures, similar to what Thorpe Park went through between 2016 and 2024 in the absence of any major CAPEX investments (whether Hyperia will change that is yet to be seen… I’m optimistic, but you never can tell).

Yes, some of Alton’s interim investments have arguably been stronger than anything Thorpe did between Derren Brown’s Ghost Train and Hyperia, but in terms of material gains to the lineup, it’s arguably about the same. For instance, The Curse at Alton Manor is not really any different to The Walking Dead: The Ride in terms of being a retheme of an existing ride, and Nemesis Reborn is not really adding anything new to the lineup either. The only legitimately new ride addition Alton Towers has had post-Wicker Man is Gangsta Granny, to my knowledge.

I’m not saying that the delay of Project Horizon necessarily was “the wrong decision”, but my point is; if Alton Towers goes too long without a new major ride investment, then it may fall into the same sort of rut that Thorpe Park was in during the late 2010s and early 2020s. And based on some of the comments about Thorpe Park around these forums for many years, that rut is a hard position to get out of that can have many longer term effects.