2024: General Discussion

[GooseOnTheLoose]

School holidays are late July and August and weekends (plus other days) are typically booked weeks ahead well into the summer so for some the parks are now inaccessible.

As demonstrated above, in my earlier post, this isn't the case at all. Every Merlin park, in the UK, has pre book availability for RAP for every week and pretty much every weekend in August (with a party of 4, red and yellow). There's also availability in July, though it is sparser. They are not typically booked weeks ahead into the summer, they are typically booked in the week of and perhaps the week following. You can't keep stating this as fact when the observable truth is the opposite.

 

[Bowser]

It’s 14th July.

August is weeks ahead.

You also conveniently chose to not post the busiest July dates so perhaps check your “facts”.

The point was people can no longer make spontaneous trips, especially on the most desirable dates unless they book weeks ahead.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

It’s 14th July.

August is weeks ahead.

You also conveniently chose to not post the busiest July dates so perhaps check your “facts”.

The point was people can no longer make spontaneous trips, especially on the most desirable dates unless they book weeks ahead.

I posted July and September dates for Alton Towers, but didn't include them for the other resorts, you're right. I have attached them now for July. This wasn't an attempt at hiding anything, anyone can see the RAP booking pages (whether they have a RAP card or not), I was keeping information to the minimum given this isn't the RAP thread.

Although availability is lower in July, it isn't completely booked out across all theme park resorts for the summer, or even July, as you keep stating it is. August is "weeks ahead" (2 weeks), yes, but you stated that there weren't any dates available all summer for most of the theme park resorts, this isn't the case.

Spontaneous trips are possibly out the window, in terms of booking on the day (but even then I've yet to see categorical evidence of this), but arguably who actually has the luxury of booking spontaneous dates at all (aside from MAP holders)? People have to book time off work and you shouldn't be taking children out of school.

 

[Matt N]

What I'd also say is that on really desirable dates, the ability to make a spontaneous visit may not have been available anyway, regardless of RAP status. The parks can and do sell out, particularly during events like Scarefest and Fireworks.

 

[Bowser]

I have specifically said summer holidays, what part of that are you struggling with?

At no point have I said they’re fully booked up across all parks for the whole summer, now you’re just making things up.

Nobody has mentioned taking children out of school. Again I have said summer holidays, please refrain from attributing false statements to me.

As for your lack of empathy for those with severely disabled children who don’t have the luxury of planning things week ahead and rely on spontaneity, quite frankly it’s disgusting and I’d prefer to have no further conversations with you.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I have specifically said summer holidays, what part of that are you struggling with?

At no point have I said they’re fully booked up across all parks for the whole summer, now you’re just making things up.

You may want to revisit your post from this morning, which I initially responded to:

Most Merlin parks are fully booked for RAP well into the summer.

As for your lack of empathy for those with severely disabled children who don’t have the luxury of planning things week ahead and rely on spontaneity, quite frankly it’s disgusting and I’d prefer to have no further conversations with you

I do have empathy and I take issue with this statement, given that I have previously offered (via private message with you) a Merlin corporate channel / direct contact to express your issues and concerns with the present RAP system.

 

[tayspru]

I’d suggest make the most of your 3 prebook per attraction and clump them together on one of the available weeks, if you are able to spontaneously use one of them then cancel the others, rinse and repeat

The system wasn’t working, this is the new system and it won’t be changing, at least for now

 

[Bowser]

it isn't completely booked out across all theme park resorts for the summer, or even July, as you keep stating it is. August is "weeks ahead" (2 weeks), yes, but you stated that there weren't any dates available all summer for most of the theme park resorts, this isn't the case.

So not this then as I’ve clarified multiple times now. Give it a rest for once, you were wrong.

You also ignored my private message so not sure what the point of this public virtue signalling months later is.

 

[tayspru]

So not this then as I’ve clarified multiple times now. Give it a rest for once, you were wrong.

You also ignored my private message so not sure what the point of this public virtue signalling months later is.

Nobody is psychic, you didn’t say “Summer holidays” originally. There’s a lot of frustration around the system, people are just trying to help and offer suggestions.

You can try and book ahead and hope to get one day in, or grumble online and do nothing and get no dates in … do that and then your family are the only ones missing out

 

[Bowser]

Nobody is psychic, you didn’t say “Summer holidays” originally. There’s a lot of frustration around the system, people are just trying to help and offer suggestions.

You can try and book ahead and hope to get one day in, or grumble online and do nothing and get no dates in … do that and then your family are the only ones missing out

I wasn’t complaining about the system, I was suggesting the changes may have impacted attendance numbers. The system is better now.

 

[Ash]

To give the new chief exec some credit where it is due, at least she's been a lot more open and transparent to the public compared to prior chief exect's. Plus, this is her first year running the park itself, so I at least class the first year as a 'teething' period. To allow her to gage what works and what needs changing.

Because whilst she might want to, let's say, retheme certain rides or remove ride/attractions with low popularity, she has to go to Merlin and ask them. And Merlin might not agree with what she is saying, and forcing her to stay the course that Merlin want. Hopefully I'm totally wrong thinking this, but it wouldn't surprise me if Merlin are preventing her from doing what she wants with AT.

I mean Scott O Neil, not BS.

I think there’s been lots of positive noise from Alton, but the scale of what’s needed is huge,
and on a fundamentals level not a lot can be done.

Food & Bev contracts is applied from group level, events seem to be shared group level, creative seems to be driven from MMM/Poole. The role generally seems to be tied to operations, which is no bad thing, but it’s mainly tinkering around the edge.

There’s definitely been positive changes, and as I’ve said in many threads, it’s a refreshing change to see someone interested in the nuts and bolts of a theme park. Throughputs, events, water park, merch, maintenance, effects and feedback. That’s progress…

 

[Kraken27]

As above, Bianca is not Merlin CEO, she is the Divisional Director of Alton Towers. I have little doubt from reading her CV / list of past experience in the industry, there is lots of things she wants to do at Alton Towers. Unfortunately, even back in private ownership, the Merlin purse-strings are firmly held in Poole.

The problem Bianca faces is you cannot reverse years of neglect overnight (even with a very blank cheque-book). It takes time and money. Anyone who has worked at Alton Towers (like I have) will know just how bad the "behind the scenes" infrastructure is in places. Think Portakabins dating back to the John Broome era of the early 1980's and you're not wrong in places.

Her hands are tied on the Food & Beverage front - Merlin have decided to partner with Aramark and that's that. As to thing like RAP, again this has been decided at a group level. Again, from having worked at Alton Towers, the old system was not fit for purpose and was heavily abused. The new system has it's issues too. But look at the company to whom Merlin "are only second too" on various forums - Disney changed their DAS [their name for RAP] system this year and folks out there are FAR from happy also.

I firmly believe that the only thing that will give Merlin the huge kick up the backside that they need is serious competition. Yes, I am looking at you Universal with your Bedford proposition. Until Universal send the diggers into Bedford, Merlin will just potter along with the mantra of "we're the best the UK has got & no need to compete".

 

[Craig]

A few reminders....

• We have a dedicated RAP discussion topic. Please take discussion about this there.
• If you have personal issues with an individual member, please message them privately to discuss. A public topic is not the place to air your individual grievances and such discussion is off topic. The vast majority of people have no interest in such arguments.
• If you can't or don't wish to resolve your differences and stay on topic, then simply do not participate in discussion with them. We also have an ignore function to prevent you seeing posts from that member if you'd rather

Thanks

 

[AT86]

Just looking at the current job openings and both Alton Towers and Thorpe Park are advertising for an ‘Annual Maintenance Planning & Delivery Manager’.

It could be a random coincidence, but that fact they are both advertising this role at the same time suggests it could be a new role?

The duties include planning all annual ride maintenance, and the salary at £50k+ appears to be one of the highest outside of senior management.

Could be a sign of a recognition that availability isn’t good enough and needs focus to improve?


Towers role:

https://careers-uk-merlinentertainments.icims.com/jobs/4998/annual-maintenance-planning-%26-delivery-manager/job

Thorpe role:

https://careers-uk-merlinentertainments.icims.com/jobs/5020/engineering-project-and-planning-manager/job

 

[Bert2theSpark]

Just looking at the current job openings and both Alton Towers and Thorpe Park are advertising for an ‘Annual Maintenance Planning & Delivery Manager’.

It could be a random coincidence, but that fact they are both advertising this role at the same time suggests it could be a new role?

The duties include planning all annual ride maintenance, and the salary at £50k+ appears to be one of the highest outside of senior management.

Could be a sign of a recognition that availability isn’t good enough and needs focus to improve?


Towers role:

https://careers-uk-merlinentertainments.icims.com/jobs/4998/annual-maintenance-planning-%26-delivery-manager/job

Thorpe role:

https://careers-uk-merlinentertainments.icims.com/jobs/5020/engineering-project-and-planning-manager/job

This forum tends to be quite good at comparing industry pay with anything electrical/mechanical based, what's the industry pay like in comparison? I know generally that the leisure industry underpays for any sort of skilled role...

 

[Ash]

This forum tends to be quite good at comparing industry pay with anything electrical/mechanical based, what's the industry pay like in comparison? I know generally that the leisure industry underpays for any sort of skilled role...

As someone that works in the control systems, electrical, process, construction industry as a manager, it’s certainly not a high wage.

Engineers alone in that highly regulated industries (pharma, nuclear) are commanding 55k salaries + car + perks so I’m not sure how they’ll get on with what they’re advertising.

Good luck to them though, even more difficult given the location. Only benefit may be its proximity to Stoke where wages are a bit lower.

“Ensure all rides are fully certified and safe for guest use.”

“Adhere to all relevant safety regulations and standards.”

In fact, for the risk/responsibility that’s involved, I don’t think it’s anywhere near enough. And they don’t even mention relevant standards. (BS/IEC/ADIPS etc)

The role needs splitting out between electrical, control systems, mechanical, civils, Scenic and AV/FX.

I’d imagine you can count on one hand the people which understand that to a “sign off” level and in the theme park industry.

Good luck to them

 

[Poisson]

Engineers in non-heavily regulated industries can easily be on 45k with no management involved.

 

[Alix]

You don’t need to be an engineer to plan maintenance across a portfolio. You need to know how to plan things, manage people & budgets, and have access to subject matter experts (engineers for example) who can advise you where required. From what I’ve read on that advert, a similar role in my part of the Civil Service would be on more, and have better leave/pension ts and cs. But a direct comparison is tricky.

If you’re paying less than the CS you’re probably not paying enough.

Edit to add: the Thorpe job sounds more engineering heavy, the Towers one is similar to roles I’m talking about.

 

[NuttySquirrel]

You don’t need to be an engineer to plan maintenance across a portfolio. You need to know how to plan things, manage people & budgets, and have access to subject matter experts (engineers for example) who can advise you where required. From what I’ve read on that advert, a similar role in my part of the Civil Service would be on more, and have better leave/pension ts and cs. But a direct comparison is tricky.

If you’re paying less than the CS you’re probably not paying enough.

Edit to add: the Thorpe job sounds more engineering heavy, the Towers one is similar to roles I’m talking about.

Was going to say just this but @Alix beat me to it - it's a project delivery management role rather than a technical one. It would require only a high-level understanding of the technical details. The Thorpe role is a bit more technical, but still project management rather than engineering-focused.

I guess this one has the added benefits of a 40% discount on Lego, which could be of value to some (!). More practically, some might find working in the leisure industry more appealing than for government.

 

[Alix]

Was going to say just this but @Alix beat me to it - it's a project delivery management role rather than a technical one. It would require only a high-level understanding of the technical details. The Thorpe role is a bit more technical, but still project management rather than engineering-focused.

I guess this one has the added benefits of a 40% discount on Lego, which could be of value to some (!). More practically, some might find working in the leisure industry more appealing than for government.

Totally - but they possibly couldn’t afford the cut in pay - Lego doesn’t pay the bills!