2024: General Discussion

[Tom]

You will need to quote, did he say he wouldn’t have made £10-20m investments or that he would have made different ones?

It was in Bloomberg. Paywall is on that, sure it wasn't before.

In the context of Nemesis Reborn and Legoland accommodation, he said: “It’s becoming increasingly difficult to place those bets in the UK,” He said that “tourist dollars” seemed to be “moving elsewhere”. Not a direct quote but the article says that he indicated he wouldn't have made those decisions.

“We want to be [in the UK]. But some things have to move for that to happen.”

At first it comes across as a Varney-style threat to lobby the UK government on VAT or other giveaways, but the pauses which I believe are in place would mean he is prepared to put his money where is mouth is, or indeed not put money there.

 

[Dave]

It was in Bloomberg. Paywall is on that, sure it wasn't before.

In the context of Nemesis Reborn and Legoland accommodation, he said: “It’s becoming increasingly difficult to place those bets in the UK,” He said that “tourist dollars” seemed to be “moving elsewhere”. Not a direct quote but the article says that he indicated he wouldn't have made those decisions.

“We want to be [in the UK]. But some things have to move for that to happen.”

At first it comes across as a Varney-style threat to lobby the UK government on VAT or other giveaways, but the pauses which I believe are in place means he is prepared to put his money where is mouth is, or indeed not put money.

That was a lobbying piece to get the government to drop VAT on leisure.

There are no real pauses at the moment as far as I can see, I think the only one that might be a pause is the waterpark but that's more likely to be due to energy prices than anything else.

 

[Tom]

Was only March this year but possibly trying to get someone to put it in a manifesto.

We will have to wait to discuss further I guess, but I look forward to the first £10-£20m major investment that he signs off on (probably i.e. what we see a planning application for), and what that will be if it ever comes.

I feel that Hyperia will not do anything at all to convince him that such investments are good business for the UK. He seems to be into much quicker returns on investment and instant margin increases.

I broke down the paywall, anyway, so:

The chief executive officer of Merlin Entertainments Ltd., which runs UK tourist attractions such as Madame Tussauds and Legoland, said it is becoming increasingly difficult to make big investments in the country.​

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An uncompetitive tax environment means the “tourist dollars seem to be moving elsewhere,” Scott O’Neil said in an interview, following resistance from the government to bring back a tax cut for visitors to the UK.​

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A recently-launched roller-coaster at its Alton Towers theme park and a Woodland Village attraction opening this spring at Legoland in Windsor were decisions made before O’Neil joined in November 2022. But he added: “It’s becoming increasingly difficult to place those bets in the UK.”​

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O’Neil welcomed comments last week by Shadow Chancellor Rachel Reeves that the Labour Party plans to work more closely with business.​

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“We want to make sure this is the greatest place in the world to invest our pounds,” he said. “We want to be here. But some things have to move for that to happen.​

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“Because of the way we allocate capital, the bets we will make over the next five, six, seven years will depend on that partnership that Rachel Reeves is talking about.”​

 

[Dave]

I feel that Hyperia will not do anything at all to convince him that such investments are good business for the UK. He seems to be into much quicker returns on investment and instant margin increases.

What has been a quick return on investment?

 

[Tom]

What has been a quick return on investment?

Putting a few signs on a food outlet and massively hiking prices.

Suspect also a net increase on scare mazes will also increase margins for Scarefest.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

All that has happened under O'Neil is margin building via massive food price hikes

The food price hikes aren't a direct result of O'Neil and have not built their margins. Merlin have outsourced their food and beverage to Aramark, a third party, and now have no say in the pricing of food and beverage offerings.

You could say that all he's done is outsource food and beverage options, to relieve operational delivery pressure across the group, but really nothing more.

 

[Dave]

The food price hikes aren't a direct result of O'Neil and have not built their margins. Merlin have outsourced their food and beverage to Aramark, a third party, and now have no say in the pricing of food and beverage offerings.

You could say that all he's done is outsource food and beverage options, to relieve operational delivery pressure across the group, but really nothing more.

Plus the Aramark deal was done by Varney.

 

[Matt N]

There are no real pauses at the moment as far as I can see, I think the only one that might be a pause is the waterpark but that's more likely to be due to energy prices than anything else.

As far as I can tell, the waterpark has actually only been held up in planning permission rather than paused. There’s been some rigmarole with the planners, and I definitely don’t remember the waterpark getting approved.

That is if we’re talking about the one at Chessington, anyhow.

 

[Bowser]

I would not be surprised if attendance is struggling somewhat this year; the summer weather has been quite poor so far.

I know for us the RAP changes have meant we are able to visit Merlin parks far less than previous years.

Probably impossible to measure but for both those who genuinely can't visit without it and those who took advantage to bypass (or minimise) the 90+ minute queues i do wonder what impact it has had on visitor numbers.

Case in point the weather is nice today so we'd visit but we can't.

 

[Matt N]

I know for us the RAP changes have meant we are able to visit Merlin parks far less than previous years.

Probably impossible to measure but for both those who genuinely can't visit without it and those who took advantage to bypass (or minimise) the 90+ minute queues i do wonder what impact it has had on visitor numbers.

Case in point the weather is nice today so we'd visit but we can't.

I empathise with this, but I’d politely ask; why does this system cause you issues at Merlin parks, yet it doesn’t at Paultons where they have the exact same system?

That’s not meant maliciously, by the way; I’m genuinely curious. People have been lobbying for Merlin to change RAP to a Paultons-style system for ages, yet they seem to be getting flack now they have.

 

[Bowser]

I empathise with this, but I’d politely ask; why does this system cause you issues at Merlin parks, yet it doesn’t at Paultons where they have the exact same system?

That’s not meant maliciously, by the way; I’m genuinely curious. People have been lobbying for Merlin to change RAP to a Paultons-style system for ages, yet they seem to be getting flack now they have.

I can currently book RAP for any day at Paultons including today (in fact we would go but for the motorway closures and football).

Most Merlin parks are fully booked for RAP well into the summer.

Generally our trips are spontaneous due to my sons condition so booking months ahead isn't viable.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I can currently book RAP for any day at Paultons including today (in fact we would go but for the motorway closures and football).

Most Merlin parks are fully booked for RAP well into the summer.

Generally our trips are spontaneous due to my sons condition so booking months ahead isn't viable.

Alton Towers has RAP availability, for red and yellow (party size of four), for all of August and September. There are a few days this week available and plenty in the last week of July too. Chessington is similar. Thorpe too. Oh and Legoland Windsor, though the latter has a few blackout dates in August (7).

I can't find evidence of any Merlin park, let alone most, which are fully booked for RAP well into the summer.

 

[AT86]

I would doubt the RAP changes are having any material impact on visitor numbers.

The weather is impacting everyone, the cost of living pressures are impacting a significant proportion of the population (and those that aren’t feeling it are probably not even in the target market of a Merlin theme park).

RAP changes whilst potentially acute to those that are impacted, represent a much lower proportion of potential visitors.

 

[jon81uk]

The parks are no longer affordable to many people, and they certainly aren't' going to stay for an evening meal at the current prices, particularly since you would be eating and then going home.

I don’t think the affordability thing has changed. We went to Alton Towers 40 years ago and the only reason my parents could afford it was Safeway loyalty points. The rise of super cheap season passes a few years ago made the parks more affordable and those have gone away or gone up in price but I think one day tickets are still a pretty fair price.

 

[EarthlyKnight27]

Almost as if getting someone who has no experience in running tourist attractions as a chief exec was a bad idea…

To give the new chief exec some credit where it is due, at least she's been a lot more open and transparent to the public compared to prior chief exect's. Plus, this is her first year running the park itself, so I at least class the first year as a 'teething' period. To allow her to gage what works and what needs changing.

Because whilst she might want to, let's say, retheme certain rides or remove ride/attractions with low popularity, she has to go to Merlin and ask them. And Merlin might not agree with what she is saying, and forcing her to stay the course that Merlin want. Hopefully I'm totally wrong thinking this, but it wouldn't surprise me if Merlin are preventing her from doing what she wants with AT.

 

[EarthlyKnight27]

I would doubt the RAP changes are having any material impact on visitor numbers.

The weather is impacting everyone, the cost of living pressures are impacting a significant proportion of the population (and those that aren’t feeling it are probably not even in the target market of a Merlin theme park).

RAP changes whilst potentially acute to those that are impacted, represent a much lower proportion of potential visitors.

To be honest, with the recent weather this 'summer' in the UK being wet and cooler than normal, it can throw some people off. As whilst some people, like myself, would love to go during the cooler weather, if it started to rain during our trip it's make it harder to enjoy as the rain would more likely than not be freezing with the cool air added in the mix.

But, with the cost of living, people are choosing what to spend their tight budgets on. Some families might go to AT maybe one every 1 or 2 years, as the prices of entry (and more damning) the prices of food can make some people eyes water at how much they're made to pay for food. I mean, I wonder if the chief exect might try and bring back out of house food operators (like Burger King or maybe a Subway) to try and bring down the prices for food.

Cause a lot of businesses have realized that if they keep prices down or to a more reasonable amount, people will attend their attractions or pay or their services.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Some families might go to AT maybe one every 1 or 2 years, as the prices of entry (and more damning) the prices of food can make some people eyes water at how much they're made to pay for food. I mean, I wonder if the chief exect might try and bring back out of house food operators (like Burger King or maybe a Subway) to try and bring down the prices for food

They already have out of house operators for food and beverage with Aramark; nothing in that area is "in house" anymore and costs have gone up as a result.

If you want to keep costs of food and beverage options for people down, you do everything in house, because you won't have a middle man having to take their cut and make their profit on top. Running your own operations also allows you to subsidise some offerings if you wish too.

Merlin has no say in current food and beverage operations on their sites. They can make suggests, they can collaborate, but the entire operation is with a third party. The staff aren't even Merlin employees, they're Aramark employees (franchise operators at Thorpe). Merlin rents out the restaurant space, nothing more.

 

[Alphe86]

Which is a shame as the only benefit for AT from such an arrangement is “we don’t have to manage or deal with this area”
Cuts profits down substantially, cuts quality, increases costs to the customer… but the park don’t need to manage it at all.

 

[flyingguitar]

To be honest, with the recent weather this 'summer' in the UK being wet and cooler than normal, it can throw some people off. As whilst some people, like myself, would love to go during the cooler weather, if it started to rain during our trip it's make it harder to enjoy as the rain would more likely than not be freezing with the cool air added in the mix

Yeah, I think that is what is happening currently, I am there now and it feels very close to raining and isn't that warm, I think a lot of people are turned off due to the weather (it was very heavy earlier this week) although I was down south for work and it was amazing weather, the sun was out and really nice, seccond I stepped of the train it was pouring down with rain

 

[Bowser]

I would doubt the RAP changes are having any material impact on visitor numbers.

It was a hypothesis but if RAP numbers are approx 800 a day and the system now has little queuing, then it’s reasonable to assume prior to this that when queues were gigantic potentially thousands per day were accessing it. So then the question is how many of those missing numbers are still attending?

School holidays are late July and August and weekends (plus other days) are typically booked weeks ahead well into the summer so for some the parks are now inaccessible. How many? Who knows but worst case you could have several thousand fewer people visiting per day based on the changes. Equally it could be having little impact.