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[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

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Altonadvocate1 said:
I'm pretty certain from the evidence seen that Nemmie 2.0 will be predominantly black and have no issues with this. I expect it to receive a new theming envelope that will work well as a package.

Although the Phalanx have some historical context back to the start of Nemmie, it wasn't really pushed strongly until Nemesis Sub Terra. Given the general poor reception and subsequent failure of that ride, I am surprised that they are pushing this narrative with Nemmie 2.0.

Nemmie benefits massively from the terrain and compared to this, any theming, however good would be secondary. If they are redoing the station / monster, some vats of illuminated coloured moving liquid to simulate the lungs / internal organs / circulation / breathing of the monster would be a nice touch and not too expensive.

As for mustache'd, suit wearing villains or military operatives, I don't see the need. Nemmie should remain an imposing, overpowering, invincible force of nature without compromise.

I think she should be the undisputed star of the show!

To do otherwise, would be like making a new Indiana Jones movie, with Indie serving as the foil for younger, trendier, more diverse characters, before being deleted from his own timeline...

What's next, a Scooby Doo show without Scooby Doo..

I know Nemmie will remain the star of the show to be fair, but no dilution, please.
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Sub-Terra didn’t fail because of its Phalanx storyline, it failed because it was badly designed. Once the scare maze was added to the end it actually scored relatively well with guests, but it required a lot of staff to operate for what was a filler attraction so was costly and easy to mothball when they where looking for cuts post Smiler crash.

Not saying people have to like the phalanx theme, but saying that was the problem N:ST had is stretching facts to back up an opinion.
 
I didn't go into detail as my post was long enough, but I agree completely with all your criticisms of the implementation.

I still think the theme was weak in addition to this and given that the totality of the package was poorly received, I'm still surprised that they appear to be making such a strong link at this stage.
 
RyanUK said:
Taken from the TowersStreet Facebook page, this shows a section of the loop still on site. Maybe it’s going to be used for something? Weird though how video footage is on YouTube of the other half leaving the resort.


From: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=182844037709127&id=100079505948906&set=a.180561664604031
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Aren't these the same 3 pieces of track that I highlighted a while ago and said "if any track was to be reused for themeing these are the ones I'd pick"?

Are all 3 of then from the loop? I can't tell if the middle one is the lead in/out or if it's the bit before the Helix. If all 3 are close to each other and were some of the last to be removed then it could be they just havn't been scrapped yet. But if they were removed at separate times and have since been grouped together I'd say they are being kept for a reason.
 
Dave said:
Not saying people have to like the phalanx theme, but saying that was the problem N:ST had is stretching facts to back up an opinion.
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They never said that in that post?

It's still an odd throwback to a theme from a pretty failed ride (for whatever reason it failed, it was open about 3 years and still not a great theme). Instead of keep the focus on one the park's strongest ride themes with Nemesis. Whether this stops at promo or not.

Of course if Alton had a track record of brilliant new themes the last 10 years we'd trust they have a trick up their sleeve, but Phantasialand this aint, so I get why people are hesitant with potentially changing Nemesis.

If you don't care much about the theme (in a theme park) that's alright but it's a fair discussion
 
OilyWater said:
They never said that in that post?
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Altonadvocate1 said:
Although the Phalanx have some historical context back to the start of Nemmie, it wasn't really pushed strongly until Nemesis Sub Terra. Given the general poor reception and subsequent failure of that ride, I am surprised that they are pushing this narrative with Nemmie 2.0.
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Might not have been the intent but that’s how it reads.

As I say I’m not expecting people to like the Phalanx addition to the theme but the failure of N:ST was not due to the phalanx narrative.
 
Whatever the reason NST failed, it would be strange to theme the parks most iconic and arguably highest quality coaster offering, so sacred it's worthy of rebuilding, to a failed attraction that was only open for 5 mins.

Admittedly, I never cared for the NST theme and always thought it was jarring to walk into forbidden valley to be greeted by a tank and military personnel shouting and that it damaged the theme of the area somewhat. But I found it tolerable since it offered an indoor thrill level experience that the park needed (and probably does even more so now) to compliment it's lineup, I didn't have as bad a time on it as others seemed to and under the understanding that it was a theme contained to that corner of FV and isolated to that ride it was fine I guess.

All the military silliness mostly came from a here today, gone tomorrow drop tower ride that some may not remember and others may associate with said ride and not the iconic coaster they're more likely to have fond memories of or at least be aware of. Whether Ghost Train at Thorpe has a theme that tickles anyone's fancy or not is far from the main reason that it's been a failure. Imagine if they cut costs and left that closed for years before retheming the Swarm or Inferno to Derren Brown's Ghost Coaster or something, that would be odd would it not?
 
Dave said:
Not saying people have to like the phalanx theme, but saying that was the problem N:ST had is stretching facts to back up an opinion.
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We all know Sub Terra was a failed attraction. I’m not basing the theme as the main failure, but I do think its theme was bad and in no relation to Nemmie itself.
Dave said:
As I say I’m not expecting people to like the Phalanx addition to the theme but the failure of N:ST was not due to the phalanx narrative.
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It’s certainly looking like the Phalanx will play a part in the new Nemesis but we can’t be completely sure it will at this stage, still very early days.
 
RyanUK said:
We all know Sub Terra was a failed attraction. I’m not basing the theme as the main failure, but I do think its theme was bad and in no relation to Nemmie itself.

It’s certainly looking like the Phalanx will play a part in the new Nemesis but we can’t be completely sure it will at this stage, still very early days.
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I know you think the theme was bad and I respect your opinion as it’s subjective but it ostensibly does have a relation to Nemesis as it was part of its marketing/ merchandise.

Theme park rides are not some sort of single author canon that is set in stone, far from it they are complex beasts where multiple creatives keep imprinting various elements, that’s both their strength and their weakness.
 
Saying the theme of Sub-Terra had no relation to Nemesis is like saying that Nemesis is not a rollercoaster. Both statements are just pain wrong!
 
The fact is whether people like it or not the Phalanx theme has been ever present, albeit at times dormant, since NST opened. It was re-used for the scaremaze which was in the NST building and is presumably now being used to re market the ride once it is ready for operation again (and to retain interest in the meantime).
 
Rob said:
Both statements are just pain wrong!
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In your opinion, yes. Ever since Sub Terra opened, I wasn’t keen. A drop tower in the dark just didn’t seem to compliment Nemmie. It was an add-on attraction for a world-class rollercoaster, and seeing as there’s been quite a lot of talk in another topic about the resort and flat rides, they could’ve chosen a flat ride that would’ve been more suitable and fitting to Forbidden Valley. At the time it opened, Ripsaw was still there and nobody expected it not to be a few years later. That spot is now THE perfect place for something as it’s very close to the sleeping beast herself.
 
RyanUK said:
In your opinion, yes. Ever since Sub Terra opened, I wasn’t keen. A drop tower in the dark just didn’t seem to compliment Nemmie. It was an add-on attraction for a world-class rollercoaster, and seeing as there’s been quite a lot of talk in another topic about the resort and flat rides, they could’ve chosen a flat ride that would’ve been more suitable and fitting to Forbidden Valley. At the time it opened, Ripsaw was still there and nobody expected it not to be a few years later. That spot is now THE perfect place for something as it’s very close to the sleeping beast herself.
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Ripsaw made way I believe for SW8. The crash then happenned, plans changed and Wickerman was born.
 
Ripsaw and the Flume both closed at the end of the 2015 season, after Smiler crashed. In addition, Hex, CatCF. NST and the driving school were mothballed so in 2016 the park was down 6 rides on the year before. I think Twirling Toadstool lasted just one more season but as it was effectively swapped for Hex very few people really cared at the time.
 
RyanUK said:
In your opinion, yes. Ever since Sub Terra opened, I wasn’t keen. A drop tower in the dark just didn’t seem to compliment Nemmie. It was an add-on attraction for a world-class rollercoaster, and seeing as there’s been quite a lot of talk in another topic about the resort and flat rides, they could’ve chosen a flat ride that would’ve been more suitable and fitting to Forbidden Valley. At the time it opened, Ripsaw was still there and nobody expected it not to be a few years later. That spot is now THE perfect place for something as it’s very close to the sleeping beast herself.
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The thing is Rob wasn’t replying to your opinion on the quality of N:ST, for sure there are a myriad of reasons people might think a drop tower is not suited to the theme of Nemesis and that is very subjective.

Rob was saying that the phalanx THEME of N:ST was clearly related to Nemesis.

By all means argue it was badly executed but the Phalanx is related to the theme of Nemesis, it is included in very early merch and military involvement is mentioned in early concept.
 
Pedantics over whether there was a military organisation mentioned in a comic that no sod ever read in 1994 or not, I think it's perfectly reasonable to associate the marketing theme of Call Of Duty; The Ride so far with that of NST more than that of OG Nemesis.
 
Matt.GC said:
Pedantics over whether there was a military organisation mentioned in a comic that no sod ever read in 1994 or not, I think it's perfectly reasonable to associate the marketing theme of Call Of Duty; The Ride so far with that of NST more than that of OG Nemesis.
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It’s got nothing to do with pedantics, as said you can dislike the use of Phalanx all you want, but to say it has nothing to do with Nemesis is factually incorrect, and ride themes cannon are not set in stone like the full works of JRR Tolkien!
 
Dave said:
It’s got nothing to do with pedantics, as said you can dislike the use of Phalanx all you want, but to say it has nothing to do with Nemesis is factually incorrect, and ride themes cannon are not set in stone like the full works of JRR Tolkien!
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I feel like this is a weird denial of reality. Ain't nobody even heard of Phalanx when Nemesis was designed and built, not one member of the public when they went on the ride, cos it didn't exist. You'd have needed buy a comic in 1995/6 (a far stretch that this had any relation to the ride) to know it at all, until Sub Terra came along.

Nobody is saying Phalanx isn't connected to Nemesis now, because we know Sub Terra. But Sub Terra was ride built many years later and not nearly as regarded as Nemesis.

It's like if Curse of Alton Manor held on to Dr Roodyn and the zombies just because it was now the "backstory" for the Haunted House after Duel. At least that was actually mentioned in the ride.

If people champion the Phalanx theme because they like it, absolutely fine. If people like it just "because" it's the Nemesis backstory, that's a bit silly.

I'd argue it doesn't matter anyway, cos the Phalanx theme isn't that great.
 
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