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[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

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DistortAMG said:
I get people love this ride and people do not like change, but judgement should at least be reserved until we actually have some things to judge against, right now there is nothing to judge against.

Personally, we know the core Nemesis experience is going to be the same, the forceful coaster ride. So given that, I am pretty excited to see what they do with it.
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Totally with you on that. As for your numbered options I choose 3 or 5. I can sit and watch the thing wrap around that glorious white track all day. I’m not sure if can with a darker theme. Inferno relations need to be kept south.
 
I know people are excited for the black track, but name every roller coaster you know that has a black or a dark colour track/supports in general, then count how many coasters have a bright but very detailed track/Support colour to it, then compare each other in numbers. IF nemesis will have black tracks and supports, it'll be just like the rest, like that moment from Toy Story 2 Buzz sees all the other clones of him packed in boxes on the shelf:

p038m442.jpg

If Nemesis was going to have a white track but covered in blood veins and red stains, that'd be a wicked change and would look great! Familiar, yet fresh!
 
RyanUK said:
If we end up with a different theme all round, including music, this along with the possible different ride experience could drive the enthusiasts away, and they won’t come back.
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I'd still be renewing my Merlin annual pass, nemesis will ride great regardless and I'll still be visiting towers this year despite no nemesis, granted I'm gonna miss it a lot this year.

As stated on the thread earlier despite the change of the colour scheme it's still gonna haul ass down that downwards helix, there's also still gonna be 2 snappy cork screws and a intense zero g roll and a always enjoyable vertical loop.

I'm not saying the theme doesn't matter but them changing the theming formula from a iconic ride from 1994 that they're spending so many millions on isn't gonna be the breaking point where I say enough is enough and stop visiting.

If that was going to happen it would have been when they closed half of the supporting rides without proper replacement.
 
DistortAMG said:
the Phalanx were not created for Nemesis: Subterra. They were created for the original Nemesis back story / comic in 1994 and appear in those.
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Not true, they were never a part of the original Nemesis concept. The comic was made in 1995 by someone not connected with the project. Anyone here buy the comic?

The giveaway is there never was any hint of the Phalanx around the ride until 2022

The Phalanx as we know them now are from the Sub Terra theme, which has not much relation to the comic either other than the basic idea of an organisaiton controlling Nemesis.

Its like a collective mandela effect that Phalanx was ever anything to do with Nemesis. It wouldnt matter if it was entertaining but that's what people are debating.
 
NoSmoking said:
Not true, they were never a part of the original Nemesis concept. The comic was made in 1995 by someone not connected with the project. Anyone here buy the comic?

The giveaway is there never was any hint of the Phalanx around the ride until 2022

The Phalanx as we know them now are from the Sub Terra theme, which has not much relation to the comic either other than the basic idea of an organisaiton controlling Nemesis.

Its like a collective mandela effect that Phalanx was ever anything to do with Nemesis. It wouldnt matter if it was entertaining but that's what people are debating.
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That is interesting indeed.

As here is the full comic from the old ATA website, you are probably already well aware this exists, but for the purpose of others.

Ignore the fact that ATA say it was published in 1994. The comic book is incorporated into what looks like an official Alton Towers & Tussauds branded book. Even if the comic was made by someone who was not part of the original 1994 team, due to this comic being incorporated into official park booklets from at least 1995, it could be argued that the Phalanx were endorsed by the park from this early period as part of endorsing the comic.

The comic effectively expanded on the Nemesis story and lore, very early on in the attraction's life, with the endorsement of Alton Towers, therefor, I would be obliged to stand by what I said as it is very close and similar to my original statements for the reasons I mentioned above.

Interested to hear other views on this actually.
 
Yes it was official but really created as contents for merchandise. It served as a reference point for the Sub Terra theme. In the end Sub Terra was a ride themed about Phalanx operating in Forbidden Valley so it was introduced to the park in 2012 either way. Just explicitly not a part of Nemesis.

Of course Alton Towers can change Nemesis theme to whatever they want, but whether that's the best route for Nemesis or if the original theme has been diluted over the years is up to guests to judge
 
Ah I see, that does make sense. I understand now.

Still, I guess I am happy that the story is being expanded using some Nemesis lore, even if it was not the 'official' lore created by the teams original designers. Well, I would rather that than no Nemesis.
 
NoSmoking said:
Yes it was official but really created as contents for merchandise. It served as a reference point for the Sub Terra theme. In the end Sub Terra was a ride themed about Phalanx operating in Forbidden Valley so it was introduced to the park in 2012 either way. Just explicitly not a part of Nemesis.

Of course Alton Towers can change Nemesis theme to whatever they want, but whether that's the best route for Nemesis or if the original theme has been diluted over the years is up to guests to judge
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It could be looked upon as they have lost Sub Terra, they will continue the Phalanx and the theme with Nemesis. Not a good move in my eye.
 
RyanUK said:
It could be looked upon as they have lost Sub Terra, they will continue the Phalanx and the theme with Nemesis. Not a good move in my eye.
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The closure announcement Towers made ft. The Phalanx seems to suggest this is true, although it seems likely that Sub-Terra may reopen in some form or another.
 
zeock said:
The closure announcement Towers made ft. The Phalanx seems to suggest this is true, although it seems likely that Sub-Terra may reopen in some form or another.
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I think it is beyond doubt at this point that Sub Terra is definitely re-opening for the coming season at least. It will almost certainly not be the same experience as it previously was, story wise at least (whether the actual ride hardware is still in there remains to be seen), and will most likely be a continuation of the story they set up on closing day, and a pre-cursor to the potential new storyline of Nemesis itself.
 
First time I have heard nemesis was "at the end of its life"...
I heard a few supports and track sections needed repair and replacement, but not that the whole ride needed closing or completely renovating.
Anyone confirm it actually needed a "full pull ", so to speak?
 
RyanUK said:
If we end up with a different theme all round, including music, this along with the possible different ride experience could drive the enthusiasts away, and they won’t come back.

We are promised the same experience all round. Early indications are not pointing to that.
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1) Merlin don’t care about enthusiasts that much, we make up very little of the guest spend. In fact In general we are more of an annoyance I would wager (well the ones of us who don’t mostly sit in the bars).

2) I guarantee even the most hardline “never returner” would be back the moment SW9 opens.

NoSmoking said:
Of course Alton Towers can change Nemesis theme to whatever they want, but whether that's the best route for Nemesis or if the original theme has been diluted over the years is up to guests to judge
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I can guarantee 97% of guests won’t care either way.

rob666 said:
First time I have heard nemesis was "at the end of its life"...
I heard a few supports and track sections needed repair and replacement, but not that the whole ride needed closing or completely renovating.
Anyone confirm it actually needed a "full pull ", so to speak?
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I don’t think anyone can give the official position but the rumour was certainly that the footers needed a lot of work which would have required deconstruction anyway. Certainly it was starting to shed bolts at an ever increasing rate.

I think the biggest clue is Merlin were willing to spend the money on the re track and they are not known for frivolous unnecessary spending.
 
rob666 said:
First time I have heard nemesis was "at the end of its life"...
I heard a few supports and track sections needed repair and replacement, but not that the whole ride needed closing or completely renovating.
Anyone confirm it actually needed a "full pull ", so to speak?
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Agree here. If it were that close to end of life surely Downtime woudl be higher?

I would imagine that what's actually happened is maintenance costs have exceeded budget for a few years on the trot. And likely a higher budget was required to conduct footer work. So the accountants have gone 'nope', leading to the replace or reconstruct situation.

By the way this topic is getting very tedious. Can we please please please move away from paint colour.
 
We have done, stop digging it up!
I imagine some replacement was needed, other bits had to be removed for access/checking, so they decided to bite the bullet and do a full job.
 
rob666 said:
We have done, stop digging it up!
I imagine some replacement was needed, other bits had to be removed for access/checking, so they decided to bite the bullet and do a full job.
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That is my guess as well. But nearly 30 years of various stresses and forces on that steel won't have come without potential issues.

End of life stuff is just part and parcel of safety recommendations.

RyanUK said:
If we end up with a different theme all round, including music, this along with the possible different ride experience could drive the enthusiasts away, and they won’t come back.
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Some good old fashioned hyperbole there. And if enthusiasts won't go on Nemesis because it has black track and more Phalanx related stuff then means shorter queues for those who don't mind and are just happy that Nemesis is staying in some manner.

This is reminding me of when Disney added a Starbucks in parks and the fans lost their minds over it.
 
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