[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

[SMT_]

Bit too sunny for Staffordshire. How does it look on a typical grey day?

 

[Craig]

Once again...can we move on from track colour for the time being. If the track was going to be so substantially red with only the box part black, then it'd be painted as such already at the manufacturing plant. We're getting black track, there's no point discussing alternatives when it's there and can be physically seen in black.

As for the track being sold, that doesn't appear that it's going to be the case at the moment, so let's move on from that too. A scrapyard scraps, they won't be "saving" any for anyone.

Now could we get back to discussion about Nemesis based on fact and evidence, rather than going through possibilities that just aren't going to happen.

Edit: I've had to remove a number of posts after this one because people don't seem to understand that moving on from track colour discussion means not responding to previous posts about it too.

 

[RyanUK]

There is very little groundwork being done as far as we know, only a few footers are being replaced. Given its going to have to sail over the atlantic it doesn't seem too early, get the track to the UK for summer 2023, build over autumn and test over winter.
Edit to add - Also I wouldn't expect much construction during the open season anyway, they'd want to get the removal done by March 2023 before the park opens.

Yes, aren’t the existing supports being used again with new bolts?

We're getting black track, there's no point discussing alternatives when it's there and can be physically seen in black.

Happy to move away from the colour (I already have) however can we please also stop generally acting as if we know the definite colour? There’s going to be a lot of people looking very silly out there when Alton Towers finally reveal it’s colour, albeit black, original whitish or Mr Blobby pink with yellow spots colour.

 

[Poisson]

Some supports are remaining, some are being replaced I gather with at least 1 extra being installed

 

[Skyscraper]

Only the supports for the station, lift hill and brake run are remaining. All others are being replaced. Some foundations are being re-poured as well.

 

[Craig]

Yes, aren’t the existing supports being used again with new bolts?

The work comprises of:

• Replace parts of the coaster track (everything except the station, lift hill, brake run and workshop)
• Replace 89 of the 117 supports
• Remove and replace 636 bolts
• Carry out maintenance to the rides station building and theming
• Strengthen certain footers and foundations of the ride.

Happy to move away from the colour (I already have) however can we please also stop generally acting as if we know the definite colour? There’s going to be a lot of people looking very silly out there when Alton Towers finally reveal it’s colour, albeit black, original whitish or Mr Blobby pink with yellow spots colour.

As I've said multiple times now, there's no "acting" - we know that the primary colour is black as per the pictures. Suggesting running rails are being painted red or something isn't constructive - as they've already been seen to be painted black. We can revisit any potential changes if they're seen when the track is installed.

There's been so little said of any other potential changes to the ride like the station, and what has been said has been drowned out by repetitive chat about track colour when we've seen evidence that we know what it is. So let's stick with the ride itself and drop the track colour talk for the time being unless we see something suggesting otherwise and move on to other elements of the ride.

 

[ChristmasPud]

the hyperbole in this topic around something we haven’t seen yet is getting a bit much.

Only if you see it that way. Most what you say in your post I agree with. It's the IF that Im on about, IF it turns out to be a fun theme then success!

IF it goes the way the clues suggest, Id worry that's changing a great theme people have long enjoyed to a lesser theme, in my opinion.

All that's happening is people expressing their opinion about hinted changes based on what the clues point to. Other fans especially on Twitter are projecting a lot of hatred on to this for some reason.

Nemesis is a themed attraction where the theme is a big part of it, theme park fans obviously would talk about such things. Not everyone cares, that's fine. Theme is still a big part of every guest's experience and the small elements make up the whole.

I still think:

Of course Alton Towers can change Nemesis theme to whatever they want, but whether that's the best route for Nemesis or if the original theme has been diluted over the years is up to guests to judge

@Craig sorry, I did the thing I didn't see your post.

 

[Zeock]

Only if you see it that way. Most what you say in your post I agree with. It's the IF that Im on about, IF it turns out to be a fun theme then success!

IF it goes the way the clues suggest, Id worry that's changing a great theme people have long enjoyed to a lesser theme, in my opinion.

All that's happening is people expressing their opinion about hinted changes based on what the clues point to. Other fans especially on Twitter are projecting a lot of hatred on to this for some reason.

Nemesis is a themed attraction where the theme is a big part of it, theme park fans obviously would talk about such things. Not everyone cares, that's fine. Theme is still a big part of every guest's experience and the small elements make up the whole.

As an add-on to this post:
A themed ride really adds an extra dimension to a ride. A ride without theming can only simply be 'fun'.
I can have fun at home watching theme park videos or on this forum. Both these sources of fun cost only the initial price of the device that I am using. Fun is cheap.
A true theme park should not just be about exhilarating thrills. It should be able to transport you into a different world; a world of adventure, horror, fantasy, whatever!
This is currently what Nemesis does for me. If you remove the theming, that helix will still be incredible, but it will just be another generic ride which does not transport me into another world. John Wardley's favourite ride at Towers is Nemesis because, and I quote, 'it takes you on a journey'.
A discussion about a change of theming for an attraction should definitely be encouraged. Theming is a very important part of many theme park rides, and I'm sure that some people love Nemesis partly for the mysterious theming, and are worried that the new theme will not immerse them as the old theme did.

 

[DistortAMG]

I mean, I go to a theme park mainly for one thing and one thing only, to have fun.

Theme parks spend a lot of time and money in transporting people to these magical places all in the name of fun, so I am slightly confused by your interpretation of it. Theme parks are fun places to be in, prove me wrong. Anyway, I feel I am heading off in an already chaotic topic.

Going back to Nemesis, JW did mention that he was asked by Merlin / AT what he thought Nemesis should be replaced with, which to cut a long story short, ended up the way it has now. But, this suggests that a CAPEX project would have been on the marks for the site. So this does make me wonder if we were not getting the Nemesis re track, would a brand new SW be in construction right now.

Not that it matters too much, just a curious observation, with project horizon on the....horizon, we can see that Merlin do want to spend more cash more frequently. But still, it does make you wonder, we would almost certainly have been due an SW right about now. Not a bad trade off by any means and most certainly not a complaint.

 

[Matt N]

Going back to Nemesis, JW did mention that he was asked by Merlin / AT what he thought Nemesis should be replaced with, which to cut a long story short, ended up the way it has now. But, this suggests that a CAPEX project would have been on the marks for the site. So this does make me wonder if we were not getting the Nemesis re track, would a brand new SW be in construction right now.

Not that it matters too much, just a curious observation, with project horizon on the....horizon, we can see that Merlin do want to spend more cash more frequently. But still, it does make you wonder, we would almost certainly have been due an SW right about now.

The timing would be about right, particularly given the pandemic-induced CAPEX delays. So had the visitor feedback surveys not pointed in Nemesis' favour, I'd wager that we could well have been seeing preparations for SW9 as a replacement to Nemesis rather than a Nemesis retrack...

 

[Zeock]

I mean, I go to a theme park mainly for one thing and one thing only, to have fun.

Theme parks spend a lot of time and money in transporting people to these magical places all in the name of fun, so I am slightly confused by your interpretation of it. Theme parks are fun places to be in, prove me wrong. Anyway, I feel I am heading off in an already chaotic topic.

The thing is, you can get fun without paying much money, however a theme park can cost a lot of money, especially if you are staying on site.
If you are paying that much money, you would expect something more meaningful and more rare than simple fun. This is what an immersive experience achieves.

 

[DistortAMG]

The thing is, you can get fun without paying much money, however a theme park can cost a lot of money, especially if you are staying on site.
If you are paying that much money, you would expect something more meaningful and more rare than simple fun. This is what an immersive experience achieves.

What?! I think you are confusing what the actual meaning of the word fun is. If you do not have fun at a theme park what do you have, fun can be delivered through immersive experiences, fun is the enjoyment of something. I cannot handle this conversation anymore.

 

[Matt.GC]

When I think of fun, whimsical and immersive experiences, the first thing I think of is military forces. You can experience things like aliens with coaster track like tenticles bursting out of a mysterious pit with blood running through it at your local airport, and see them every night on the news in war zones and at terrorist incidents. We'll probably see their flesh coloured B&M track like tenticles grasping the steering wheel of ambulances before long. But if military forces don't scream at you magical and exciting escapism from the often grim realities of the real world then I don't know what will.

 

[BlueRiver]

I visited Alton Towers for the first time in maybe 15 years after reading an article about Nemesis closing (the last time I went was around the time Rita opened). I quite enjoyed seeing the Phalanx signs around Nemesis, and it definitely added to the fun for me. I didn't know Nemesis Sub:Terra had existed until reading some of the posts on this forum, and I had no clue that Phalanx was related to a military theme (I appreciate if they were to retheme the whole area this would be a lot more obvious). I don't think a re-theme would ruin the enjoyment for most people, although I am sure it will be something I'll complain about while queuing when I eventually go on the reopened ride - same as I did while queuing for Air/Galactica. I guess that's how I know I'm getting old.

 

[ChristmasPud]

I had no clue that Phalanx was related to a military theme

Whatever it is, so far the Phalanx theme around Nemesis has been the clip art logo of a screw and some counter-terrorism type costumed actors. Plus the video of the CBBC style evil politicians/ businesspeople. It's felt a lot more Sub Terra than Nemesis.

 

[BarryZola]

I don't think I'll ever like the Phalanx/military theme since seeing people get shouted at repeatedly by ride staff on Sub Terra back in the day. It was way more than was necessary at a theme park and they obviously wouldn't let their staff behave like that these days. Just give me a good coaster experience, some big rocks and some red water and everything will be just fine.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Plus the video of the CBBC style evil politicians/ businesspeople. It's felt a lot more Sub Terra than Nemesis.

Forgot to mention at the closure video, the evil businessman acted like a pantomime villain in which given that it was in the pantomime season when the ride closed, I'm kicking myself for not coming up with a joke in which when he said Nemesis is closing, I wished I'd wrotr down, "Oh no it isn't!"

If he returns when Nemesis is returning with the monster coming up behind him to eat him (be honest, you can tell he is the sort of character that will get that fate) I'll want to shout, "it's behind you!"

 

[James564]

It seems Nemmy's final resting place is F Watson & Sons breakers yard near Stone.

Link

 

[Dave]

Only if you see it that way. Most what you say in your post I agree with. It's the IF that Im on about, IF it turns out to be a fun theme then success!

IF it goes the way the clues suggest, Id worry that's changing a great theme people have long enjoyed to a lesser theme, in my opinion.

All that's happening is people expressing their opinion about hinted changes based on what the clues point to. Other fans especially on Twitter are projecting a lot of hatred on to this for some reason.

Nemesis is a themed attraction where the theme is a big part of it, theme park fans obviously would talk about such things. Not everyone cares, that's fine. Theme is still a big part of every guest's experience and the small elements make up the whole.

I still think:


@Craig sorry, I did the thing I didn't see your post.

I don’t do Twitter but when I did it was just forums on steroids, they know nothing more, they just shout louder.

As it stands these are the things that are probably happening:

1) The Phalanx will feature.
2) The track is black
3) The supports are “likely” grey.
4) They MAY be adding some red accents.

It is clear that the ride is getting a partial retheme, based on the origional. The fireworks video plus the known changes make that obvious.

I have no issue with you not liking the theorised new theme, it was always going to be divisive and you do give a good argument why. I think where I disagree with you is your posts have basically always alluded to the fact that if they deviate from the original in any way then it cannot be worthy.

I personally don’t think that and I am comfortable with change. That said any change comes with serious responsibility and although I am very sure MMM pay very little heed to these forums I can say that if they “F” it up then more fool them as it is an iconic ride with global recognition. And although I don’t think geeks have much sway on the theme park world, Nemesis retheme is going to be a hard sell for the marketing people when it’s at its best. So it’s the sort of project where a lot of angry geeks “might” make enough noise to be interesting….

But I don’t think that is likely, in fact I think
It’s astronomically unlikely.

I can’t embed the quote but @BarryZola i do like the Phalanx theme but I don’t like the shouting they had the staff do in ST, they can do that theme without the angry people.

 

[ChristmasPud]

your posts have basically always alluded to the fact that if they deviate from the original in any way then it cannot be worthy.

I'm sorry but this is not true at all, I've said repeatedly "there's plenty room for improvement" in the original theme too if they were creative enough. I think people's opinions have been valid, the only hyperbole online (mainly on social media) has been people reacting to people reacting to people.