2025: General Discussion

[Skyscraper]

Well 2002 was the year I think we started the decline so if they could get at least back to then I would be vaguely happy.

You started it?

 

[s_g_k]

I like the look of Toxicator on the map

Also like the retro vibe. Make you think - with this and Toxicator - are the park trying to go back to 2002?

They’ve got a long way to go to get back to 2002 levels from a ride hardware perspective alone.

Not taking into account any removed rides that have been replaced (Flume - Wickerman, Black Hole - Smiler), we’ve lost these without replacement since 2002:

Blade
Ug Swinger/Twirling Toadstool
Boneshaker/Energizer
Ug Bugs
Toyland Tours/CATCF
Enterprise
Submission
4D Theatre
Permanent show building (Ice Arena)
+ a couple of play areas such as Soakasaurus and the Ug Land play area

All of the above used to be a great day out in itself for people that didn’t like coasters. Now they’ve all gone.

Not including a couple of indoor seated restaurants including Mexican Cantana and Towers Street Bar and Grill. Although one can argue that RCR is an addition, which it is.

You can see why us 30 something aged enthusiasts reminisce about the late 90s/early 2000s glory days.

 

[Danscott22]

You telling me that when Toxicator opens that Galactica won’t still have a 2 hour queue because we’ll have to wait and see with that one

Not sure that was exactly what I put

 

[Bowser]

I find The Dungeon closure most baffling tbh.

Is a park with notorious capacity issues now going to let a functioning and high throughput ride system just sit there decaying for years?

 

[Joel3]

I find The Dungeon closure most baffling tbh.

Is a park with notorious capacity issues now going to let a functioning and high throughput ride system just sit there decaying for years?

That’s a very good point, that ride system is a massive asset to the park but has been underutilised for years. I do wonder how many boats were still running on the ride when it was used for the dungeons, as I believe it was much less than CatCF.

Now it’s closed completely, I’m surprised there are no known plans for a new dark ride using that ride system in this space.

 

[James]

The only option they will have had for Dungeons this year is to reopen it as that, and given it appeared to have very low numbers of guests toward its end, it's a waste of money to run and operate.

Another option could have been a retheme, but that would have cost millions, and Toxicator is the focus for 2025.

Given that it was used for the Amigos family maze at Scarefest, I'm assuming they decided to leave that all set up in the building. They save money running Dungeons and have a fully set-up scare maze ready and waiting for Scarefest 2025.

Hopefully, there will be some plans in the long run, along with TWODW/Project Horizon. That top area of the park is disgraceful.

 

[flyingguitar]

Now it’s closed completely, I’m surprised there are no known plans for a new dark ride using that ride system in this space.

I would expect them to be planning a TCAAM style retheme, but they probably won't really make it public till it opens as there isn't any point in announcing it. It could tie in with project horizen

 

[MrTowers]

The only option they will have had for Dungeons this year is to reopen it as that, and given it appeared to have very low numbers of guests toward its end, it's a waste of money to run and operate.

Another option could have been a retheme, but that would have cost millions, and Toxicator is the focus for 2025.

Given that it was used for the Amigos family maze at Scarefest, I'm assuming they decided to leave that all set up in the building. They save money running Dungeons and have a fully set-up scare maze ready and waiting for Scarefest 2025.

Hopefully, there will be some plans in the long run, along with TWODW/Project Horizon. That top area of the park is disgraceful.

How much of the dungeons space was used for amigos? I seem to remember seeing an internal layout of the building some time ago so it would be good to understand what's actually being used.

Either way most scare mazes seem to stick around for at least 3 years so I would imagine the rest of the building will remain unused until at least 2027. By then the ride system will probably be in disrepair and the whole building will need gutting. Maybe we will see something alongside Horizon unless that's now a dead project.

 

[AT86]

The boat system was out of use for 3 seasons between Charlie closing and the Dungeons opening. There is no reason to think the system will be in disrepair any time soon.

 

[AltonLover123]

The boat system was out of use for 3 seasons between Charlie closing and the Dungeons opening. There is no reason to think the system will be in disrepair any time soon.

Exactly. It’s covered. Unless they are planning to remove, they’ll ensure it’s not left to rot.

 

[s_g_k]

When we say ride system, it’s pretty much just a concrete trough on a very slight gradient with a couple of conveyor belts to get the boats up to the starting height again and to control dispatches. Pretty sure it won’t rot, at most it would just need some new conveyors and maybe a refurb of the control system.

 

[Dave]

When we say ride system, it’s pretty much just a concrete trough on a very slight gradient with a couple of conveyor belts to get the boats up to the starting height again and to control dispatches. Pretty sure it won’t rot, at most it would just need some new conveyors and maybe a refurb of the control system.

There isn’t a gradient it’s flat, it uses a paddle wheel to create the current that moves the boats.

 

[s_g_k]

There isn’t a gradient it’s flat, it uses a paddle wheel to create the current that moves the boats.

Thanks, I didn’t know that! Is the paddle wheel at the start of the circuit? Assume it creates just enough current to move the boats along the circuit?

I originally thought it was a tracked water ride.

 

[Danscott22]

Woodcutters has a new menu by the looks of it, menu items themed to Dark Forest & Hex

 

[Poisson]

Thanks, I didn’t know that! Is the paddle wheel at the start of the circuit? Assume it creates just enough current to move the boats along the circuit?

I originally thought it was a tracked water ride.

There's an entire paddle steamer behind the MDF

 

[Dave]

Thanks, I didn’t know that! Is the paddle wheel at the start of the circuit? Assume it creates just enough current to move the boats along the circuit?

I originally thought it was a tracked water ride.

If you ride In the Night garden (or find a video of the station on YouTube) it’s exactly the same ride system as Dungeons/ Charlie/ Toyland and you can see the paddle wheel working.

The paddle wheel on Charlie/ dungeons/ Toyland is on the far side of the station, on Charlie it was painted and you could see it turning, on Toyland it was themed into a paddle steamer (that also helped theme the stairs that crossed the station), I don’t know if it’s visible on dungeons version as I never did it.

 

[Ash]

I would expect them to be planning a TCAAM style retheme, but they probably won't really make it public till it opens as there isn't any point in announcing it. It could tie in with project horizen

I assume at this point Project Horizon may of been a test to see if they’d get the planning for the Mincraft ride. And for reasons only known to Merlin. They went with Chessington.

I’d argue if they wanted to make a big splash with such a major IP you’d put that at the biggest parks. Whether they’ve made the right choice in the long term only time will tell.

I’d also argue it shows maybe where Alton’s ranking/thinking is within Merlin given recent cuts, levels of investment etc.

Although I’m not sure Minecraft lends itself to a land with the size/variety that TWODW could offer. I still stand by a miniature legoland could be perfect with the variety of rides, Merlin already have a connection, it’s distance from Windsor and ability to have “crossover” with the Discovery centre in Manchester but offer something different.

It could arguably be a 365 land and broadly speaking rights itself:

Driving school = Lego retheme
GG = Ninjago/Laser Raiders
Dungeons = Pirate Falls/Fairytale Brook
4D cinema = Lego Studios Cinema
Project Horizon = The Dragon or IP
Add in Ferrari Build and Race in the old showroom Add in a couple of Frog Hoppers

They could even… (and I’m just saying)… retheme Hex to Monster House Party and enter from the fire exit via TWODW. Turning the “front” part of the Hex queue into a shop or something else and partition it off.

But im way off topic and have arguably committed blasphemy.

 

[Poisson]

Not entirely sure why you'd retheme a ride that's widely regarded as the best of it's type and has just had money thrown at it?

 

[tayspru]

I assume at this point Project Horizon may of been a test to see if they’d get the planning for the Mincraft ride. And for reasons only known to Merlin. They went with Chessington.

I’d argue if they wanted to make a big splash with such a major IP you’d put that at the biggest parks. Whether they’ve made the right choice in the long term only time will tell.

I’d also argue it shows maybe where Alton’s ranking/thinking is within Merlin given recent cuts, levels of investment etc.

Although I’m not sure Minecraft lends itself to a land with the size/variety that TWODW could offer. I still stand by a miniature legoland could be perfect with the variety of rides, Merlin already have a connection, it’s distance from Windsor and ability to have “crossover” with the Discovery centre in Manchester but offer something different.

It could arguably be a 365 land and broadly speaking rights itself:

Driving school = Lego retheme
GG = Ninjago/Laser Raiders
Dungeons = Pirate Falls/Fairytale Brook
4D cinema = Lego Studios Cinema
Project Horizon = The Dragon or IP
Add in Ferrari Build and Race in the old showroom Add in a couple of Frog Hoppers

They could even… (and I’m just saying)… retheme Hex to Monster House Party and enter from the fire exit via TWODW. Turning the “front” part of the Hex queue into a shop or something else and partition it off.

But im way off topic and have arguably committed blasphemy.

I do think Lego would be a great brand for the park and especially as a redevelopment of TWoDW.

That being said, I expect Horizon to be an original theme. They’d be daft not to take the opportunity to create cohesion between Horizon, Dungeons, and potentially even the Towers themselves

Will we see it by 2026? Probably not, but removing the dungeons from the 2025 map is a good indication they may finally get the ball rolling

 

[Ash]

I do think Lego would be a great brand for the park and especially as a redevelopment of TWoDW.

That being said, I expect Horizon to be an original theme. They’d be daft not to take the opportunity to create cohesion between Horizon, Dungeons, and potentially even the Towers themselves

Will we see it by 2026? Probably not, but removing the dungeons from the 2025 map is a good indication they may finally get the ball rolling

Although I’d like to think so I don’t think they.

Equally I’d love them to give it a “Talbot Street” Victorian makeover as I think there’s enough flexibility and they could come up with some great concepts for that. But for the whole area, I just don’t see it.

I suspect project horizon will be a standalone attraction, which it could given its location, something like The Last Of Us I could see being possible given the recent Sony links and would work standalone. But like you, I’d rather see the whole lot sorted.

I just hope GG has a break clause after say 6 years or something similar. Rather than ten. As I don’t see it having a future. Again, I’d rather see something original over an IP that won’t grow in the future.