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2025: General Discussion

flyingguitar said:
yep, would need some way to essentially get from the bottom of the valley to the top (alton station is down the valley near DF)
circled in green is the former station (currently a hotel thing owned by national trust)1737908436931.png
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Dark Forest/Walliams World is the highest part of the park. It sits on Bunbury hill at an elevation of 191m.

Alton station is down the hill at an elevation of 109m. So a difference of 82m or 269 feet.

So ideally, they’d need a shuttle bus that runs from the station to the entrance.
 
The number of people able to arrive at a park within a reasonable time for a full day, on a single line heritage railway, is so incredibly small, I can't see anyone being interested in the massive amount of infrastructure needed. We're talking about a theme park that can't find the funds to fix their in-park transport that gets people from their own CAR PARK to the ENTRANCE.

But heck it's fun to dream, lets go wild. Merlin should buy up land in the Churnet Valley from Alton Station towards Denstone, all the way behind the Resort area, build a funicular down to the valley floor from a 'transit centre' on the current golf site with a rerouted monorail, build a gorgeous riverside Hogsmeade type affair with entertainment, restaurants, shopping and accommodation with a stunning steam railway station right at the heart. World class, leaning right into Alton Tower's unique setting, bold, exciting...and would NEVER happen :sweat:
 
Ryan said:
The number of people able to arrive at a park within a reasonable time for a full day, on a single line heritage railway, is so incredibly small, I can't see anyone being interested in the massive amount of infrastructure needed. We're talking about a theme park that can't find the funds to fix their in-park transport that gets people from their own CAR PARK to the ENTRANCE.
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it could be a reasonable amount, it depends on the ability of the railway but operating one set of 12 mk2 carriages would be able bring 780 people to the park, the line I think is able to run multiple trains, assuming a average capacity of 4 people per car that saves about 200 cars. per train
 
flyingguitar said:
it could be a reasonable amount, it depends on the ability of the railway but operating one set of 12 mk2 carriages would be able bring 780 people to the park, the line I think is able to run multiple trains, assuming a average capacity of 4 people per car that saves about 200 cars. per train
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So now we're talking about one of the longest domestic passenger train in the UK, for a shuttle, in the Staffordshire Moorlands? Wow.

And all that to move 200 cars to somewhere else they won't be wanted all day, per train.
 
Ryan said:
So now we're talking about one of the longest domestic passenger train in the UK, for a shuttle, in the Staffordshire Moorlands? Wow.

And all that to move 200 cars to somewhere else they won't be wanted all day, per train.
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well, yeah modern trains have space for standing and seating and allow for much more passengers.

I can't recall the exact amount of carriages but for their polar express service, they typically run around 10/11.

Dave said:
Having Churnet valley railway run to Towers has no benefit to Towers as the speed limit on heritage lines is too low for this to compete with road links.
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that is true, the speed limit varies from 15 to 30mph from what I recall (when opperating as a duel track service it use to be like 70 mph, but I think it is limited due to crossings and modern saftey), but you also have to remember many people don't enjoy driving down country roads, and going on a heritage train is an experience in its self.

as I said earlier though none of this is realistic before 2030's, and TBH it will probably not be aiding much as there is litterally no paths to get to alton, so alton would have to build paths.

if it did help I think it could help with hotels (getting the train down from leek is much nicer than having do drive, even if it takes an hour)
 
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Limit is usually 25 to comply with what was an LRO. Some lines are certified for doing 40 but that's sans passengers
 
rob666 said:
Ash has had this pipe dream for years, don't kill it off now.
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I live in hope. Ever the optimist.

The romantic in me, thinks it’s criminal to:
1) Have such a beautiful building in area in Alton not used for its intended purpose.
2) Just from a visual perspective I think it would be stunning. The Italian inspired station in the background, Alton castle lit up on the hill and the gates to an old stately home around the corner.

I know it’s well trodden ground but don’t forget Alton station was renamed Alton Towers and its station modified to accommodate the vast number of visitors hence why its platforms are so long. It’s a forgotten bit of the areas history.

As I’ve said previous, to get onto Alton Towers property/land, they only need to get visitors from the station, through the gatehouse on the other side of Farley Lane. They could then be ferried via bus, or other means, on an existing internal road to the flag tower/where Project Horizon may be situated. This is the old coach park don’t forget. Alton have publicly supported a railway service previously don’t forget.

As others have said this will never be Alton’s answer to Marne la valee, but a niche park and ride from leek or 3rd day attraction possibly. It could even link up with peak wildlife park with a further extension.

But it’s been talked about, rumoured discussed for decades with little progress. If I ever saw it in my lifetime I’d be immensely pleased. Don’t forget the whole thing is propped up by volunteers, many in their 60s who do an incredible job, and I can well recommend the annual rail ale trail.

If you want to read more on it see the previous link to the other topic. This is spurious, even for the closed season…
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
They only run two carriages from Shrewsbury to Birmingham as it is!
www.bbc.co.uk

Shrewsbury-to-Birmingham commuter route to get longer trains

The new trains will be introduced to the line between Shrewsbury and Birmingham in the spring.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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As a Shropshire resident I’d say the MP, whilst being scathing in her criticism, is still understating just how bad this service has been in recent months!

And that’s the issue with rail, even if there’s a line to where you want to go (eg Alton Towers), you need to have confidence that the service is reliable, and not daylight robbery in the price, otherwise car will generally win out (for those who can drive and have one).
 
flyingguitar said:
it could be a reasonable amount, it depends on the ability of the railway but operating one set of 12 mk2 carriages would be able bring 780 people to the park, the line I think is able to run multiple trains, assuming a average capacity of 4 people per car that saves about 200 cars. per train
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As @AT86 hinted towards, I think 12 carriages is unlikely to ever run on that line. If my local railway (South West England/South Wales border, run by Transport for Wales) is anything to go by, you're unlikely to see anything more than 2 or 3 coaches.

Given how rural Towers is, I'd also be stunned at a service frequency more frequent than hourly. Heck, even that might be a push given it definitely wouldn't be a principal through route; 2 or 3 hourly would probably be more par for the course, so it would really have little impact.
 
Matt N said:
As @AT86 hinted towards, I think 12 carriages is unlikely to ever run on that line. If my local railway (South West England/South Wales border, run by Transport for Wales) is anything to go by, you're unlikely to see anything more than 2 or 3 coaches.

Given how rural Towers is, I'd also be stunned at a service frequency more frequent than hourly. Heck, even that might be a push given it definitely wouldn't be a principal through route; 2 or 3 hourly would probably be more par for the course, so it would really have little impact.
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I was more thinking of a heritage line, not modern trains, in the older times, they used to run much more carriages due to the limited seating, so if there was demand for a 12 car train you could probably run one (as I said the churnet do run like 10-11 car trains during popular events).

if it was a modern railway then they typically have more capacity in the cars (like 100 people at least including standing) so can run with less cars.
 
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Matt N said:
As @AT86 hinted towards, I think 12 carriages is unlikely to ever run on that line. If my local railway (South West England/South Wales border, run by Transport for Wales) is anything to go by, you're unlikely to see anything more than 2 or 3 coaches.

Given how rural Towers is, I'd also be stunned at a service frequency more frequent than hourly. Heck, even that might be a push given it definitely wouldn't be a principal through route; 2 or 3 hourly would probably be more par for the course, so it would really have little impact.
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The economics are quite different on heritage railways. Unlike the mainline, and exempted from the ever-expanding PRM-TSI accessibility obligations* - they tend to have an excess of usable coaching stock, and it's pretty common to see full length 8 coach workings shuttling about on gala days (can't say I've seen 12 coaches mind). The cost of running 2 locos with 8 carriages attached is little more than the cost of 2 locos with 2 carriages; unlike a 'unit' where the cost scales evenly according to the length of the train, the cost is mostly in firing up the locos.

*note that the moment they start running a regular scheduled public service these obligations would kick in again, which is yet another reason why a "park and ride" heritage rail service to Alton Towers isn't something that'll happen.
 
Well there goes the “entertainment”.

Such a shame as there’s not many jobs such as that locally.

And I’d argue they are paying the price of the long term mis management of the park.

Scrapping MMM just seems daft long term, and I hope some of the talented people they’ve let go set up their own thing and charge them an arm and a leg.

I’d be willing to bet the salaries MMM were paying will be far cheaper the subbing it out.

The interesting line from the article Merlin is “looking to consolidate is attractions “into one united business””. Whatever that means.

If they only focussed on delivering better attractions instead of tidying up their mess all the time, they’d be making more money. Again, don’t see Efteling, Europa or Phantasialand make equivalent decisions.

Their business model has been garbage for over a decade, I’m afraid you reap what you sow.

Consolidating more into London or Poole, and sharing out generic events etc hasn’t worked. Why not double down…

Bring on Universal.
 
Ash said:
Bring on Universal.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, be careful what you wish for.

In my mind, if/when Universal open here, one of 3 main things will happen:

  • it'll give a kick up the rear end to existing theme and amusement park operators and make them up their game making them improve their offering
  • nothing will happen and it'll be pretty much business as usual for all other parks
  • it'll wipe the floor with them and we'll lose some much loved theme parks around the country

Let's hope for everyone's sake (and I don't just mean enthusiasts and the general public that visit the parks) that it's the former and not the latter.
 
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Trains will never run to Alton. The old track bed is used by locals and tourists alike as it’s now a path, it’s also the main way for walkers to get the to Ramblers retreat by foot. Can’t see them being too happy with that being cut off.

And on moneystone finally being approved the village of Oakamoor where it’ll sit behind are split, 50% are happy about it the rest aren’t and they’ve been fighting it for years.

Personally I see it as a good thing. The only possible drawback being tourists driving up Carr bank to take them to the site, it’s a single track road and extremely steep, it goes through the heart of the village.

They’ve said they’ll tell people to go through Kingsley etc but people follow satnavs, I expect that to cause some disruption.

I can see why some people would be against it, oakamoor only had a population of just under 600 people. But the pub needs the trade it’s the last one standing and I’m a huge pub drinker so that’s my main reason for being for it :sweatsmile:

Plus the lodges themselves look nice, as long as it’s priced appropriately and it doesn’t become a cheap tatty getaway with riff raff I have no issues.
 
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