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[202X] Project Horizon (SW9?): Planning Approved

GooseOnTheLoose said:
Nothing has slowed down. One notable YouTuber got very excited, jumped the gun and claimed a 2025 opening with the usual "could we be seeing a?" caveat to cover their caboose later on. We've since had a bit of a row back, when it finally became obvious that a 2025 opening was never realistic, especially with planning permission only being granted in June 2023. This has been spun into "because the park want to focus on firming up their flats lineup and doing a spruce up"; which again was probably always the plan anyway.

It's not Planet Coaster, these things aren't done on a whim. You couldn't, and wouldn't, push a project back of this scale with a few months notice because your fairground rides have gone.
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You say this, but this is a much longer turnaround than other previous March projects the park has pursued. Wicker Man wasn’t approved until August/September in 2016, and Thirteen wasn’t approved until January or March of 2009 if I’m remembering correctly.

Yes, I know that this will require the construction of a new area of the park, but those other projects required considerable prior deconstruction too. And I can’t imagine that Horizon’s new plaza would require that much additional construction compared to, say, removing The Flume.

With this in mind, I don’t think it’s so obscene to think that the project was originally intended for 2025 and pushed back slightly.
 
In addition to my previous post, I think it probably was originally intended that this might open in 2025, but with some flexibility. There are other more pressing needs around the park right now, *cough* flat rides *cough* and I would hope that the lack of them will be addressed in 2025 ahead of Horizon in 2026.
 
I think the difference with Horizon, which has been previously mentioned, is that it's possible Towers was expecting more of a push back from the council and other local authorities for this project. Especially after Hyperia ended up being referred to the government for approval. So they likely started the planning process earlier than usual in case they got stuck in development issues which may have seen them having to negotiate with the council over other issues. Or even if the project got denied so they'd have enough time to move onto another plan to make a 2026 opening.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
It's an interesting theory but the project is too far down the road for such a substantial change. The building and planning permission would have been designed around whatever they're putting in there, even if we can't gleam many clues.

If there is a world's first element, you can also bet that Merlin would have secured that element of the project down in the contract stages with the manufacturer. Even if they hadn't, the project is already rolling and there wouldn't be much they could do about it now.

Nothing has slowed down. One notable YouTuber got very excited, jumped the gun and claimed a 2025 opening with the usual "could we be seeing a?" caveat to cover their caboose later on. We've since had a bit of a row back, when it finally became obvious that a 2025 opening was never realistic, especially with planning permission only being granted in June 2023. This has been spun into "because the park want to focus on firming up their flats lineup and doing a spruce up"; which again was probably always the plan anyway.

It's not Planet Coaster, these things aren't done on a whim. You couldn't, and wouldn't, push a project back of this scale with a few months notice because your fairground rides have gone.
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This is where i am unsure and why i asked. I'm new to this forum, and to the concept of being an "enthusiast" as a whole i guess (despite my age!)
I was not sure if at what point Towers could step away from a project or alter it for example. But I would imagine that would be easier when all that has been submitted is a show building.
 
Matt N said:
You say this, but this is a much longer turnaround than other previous March projects the park has pursued. Wicker Man wasn’t approved until August/September in 2016, and Thirteen wasn’t approved until January or March of 2009 if I’m remembering correctly.

Yes, I know that this will require the construction of a new area of the park, but those other projects required considerable prior deconstruction too. And I can’t imagine that Horizon’s new plaza would require that much additional construction compared to, say, removing The Flume.

With this in mind, I don’t think it’s so obscene to think that the project was originally intended for 2025 and pushed back slightly.
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Sure, but if we take the most recent example of Nemesis Reborn that's had a project construction time of 16/17 months.

One major factor though, which we haven't discussed yet, will be the issues with the manufactured parts at the border, which are about to be further compounded by mandatory UK border checks at the end of this month. It's possible that the project was timetabled with this in mind.

(Meat and Plant based products, imported from the EU to the UK, haven't yet been subject to controls or border checks. From the end of January they will, putting further strain on a stretched customs system without much of a plan).

I understand that it is a much longer turnaround time than other projects, but I'm going from the only reliable source of information we have about estimated construction time, which came from the park.
 
BigT said:
There are no delays at the border for machinery as long as the cheque is in the post.
We seriously haven’t got to the point of blaming Brexit for the delay of the project by one year have we?🤣🤣
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"UK industry fears disruption from new post-Brexit border checks" - Reuters - 23/01/2024 -
Delays to customs checks at the border have been predicted for a while and are to be implemented shortly for food. Warnings have been issued that this will have knock on effects for processing everything else too. Any large construction project, which relies on importing materials or assembled pieces, from abroad will have been planned with these delays, at least as a worst case preventative measure. Or you'd hope it would.
 
I think the strange timing of the application [for the Ripsaw site] is because - and this is just a personal theory - at some point in the last 4-8 months they've done a massive about turn on the potential Project Horizon. In essence, that whole project has been swopped for doing more small bits and pieces and a couple of flat rides. As in, project horizon is now archived and will not be happening in the foreseeable future. Not just pushed back for a year, actually not planned to be happening anymore. It's useful to have the planning permission for the big shed anyway, as it gives them a good idea that they could get permission in future, but it's probably shelved now. So that decision has probably meant that they're playing catch-up with their new plans, so the timings are going to be a bit out of whack.

Just some observations from general goings on. Could be wrong.

Team edit: This post has been copied over from the Forbidden Valley Changes? Topic as many of the points made are related more specifically to Horizon. The next few posts below have also been moved from that topic.
 
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BarryZola said:
I think the strange timing of the application is because - and this is just a personal theory - at some point in the last 4-8 months they've done a massive about turn on the potential Project Horizon. In essence, that whole project has been swopped for doing more small bits and pieces and a couple of flat rides. As in, project horizon is now archived and will not be happening in the foreseeable future. Not just pushed back for a year, actually not planned to be happening anymore. It's useful to have the planning permission for the big shed anyway, as it gives them a good idea that they could get permission in future, but it's probably shelved now. So that decision has probably meant that they're playing catch-up with their new plans, so the timings are going to be a bit out of whack.

Just some observations from general goings on. Could be wrong.
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Doesn't the planning permission for the shed necessitate work starts in the next couple of years?
 
benpicko said:
Doesn't the planning permission for the shed necessitate work starts in the next couple of years?
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Like I said, they wouldn't actually need the current planning permission as (according to my theory) they're not currently planning to go ahead with it. Just the fact that they managed to get permission gives them a reasonable idea that they could get it again in future if they wanted to build something similar in the same place.
 
BarryZola said:
I think the strange timing of the application is because - and this is just a personal theory - at some point in the last 4-8 months they've done a massive about turn on the potential Project Horizon. In essence, that whole project has been swopped for doing more small bits and pieces and a couple of flat rides. As in, project horizon is now archived and will not be happening in the foreseeable future. Not just pushed back for a year, actually not planned to be happening anymore. It's useful to have the planning permission for the big shed anyway, as it gives them a good idea that they could get permission in future, but it's probably shelved now. So that decision has probably meant that they're playing catch-up with their new plans, so the timings are going to be a bit out of whack.

Just some observations from general goings on. Could be wrong.
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Out of interest, what exactly makes you think that they’ve cancelled Horizon rather than delayed it?

As far as I can see, there’s no evidence really pointing either way. Yes, there’s no work currently ongoing in Coaster Corner, which would hint towards a potential delay beyond 2025, but I can’t personally see anything that points towards them having cancelled it entirely over having delayed it.

I could be missing something, however.
 
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Regarding Project Horizon (sorry to sway off-topic), they've got three years from approval (June 2023) to commence works. So they could delay it for a few years. I think it will still go ahead; it has been a complex planning application, and an indoor ride is something Towers needs. Given there has been no large new coaster/ride added to the park since 2018, they will be keen to get something added over the next 5 years.
 
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I think it would have leaked by now had Project Horizon been scrapped. A delay seems the more likely outcome with the park realising that the lands with very popular coasters are in desperate need of supporting rides being added first.

I'd still be confident of the next SW being Project Horizon. We might just have to wait a little longer for it.
 
BarryZola said:
I think the strange timing of the application is because - and this is just a personal theory - at some point in the last 4-8 months they've done a massive about turn on the potential Project Horizon. In essence, that whole project has been swopped for doing more small bits and pieces and a couple of flat rides. As in, project horizon is now archived and will not be happening in the foreseeable future. Not just pushed back for a year, actually not planned to be happening anymore. It's useful to have the planning permission for the big shed anyway, as it gives them a good idea that they could get permission in future, but it's probably shelved now. So that decision has probably meant that they're playing catch-up with their new plans, so the timings are going to be a bit out of whack.

Just some observations from general goings on. Could be wrong.
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Bianca has talked about Project Horizon in the last 6 months so it certainly was still on the cards recently.

I don’t actually buy that it’s been delayed, I think they always planned for 2026 but expected a bigger fight on the planning permission.
 
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Matt N said:
Out of interest, what exactly makes you think that they’ve cancelled Horizon rather than delayed it?

As far as I can see, there’s no evidence really pointing either way. Yes, there’s no work currently ongoing in Coaster Corner, which would hint towards a potential delay beyond 2025, but I can’t personally see anything that points towards them having cancelled it entirely over having delayed it.

I could be missing something, however.
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Nothing seems to be happening in Coaster Corner, there has already been a lot spent on Nemesis and Curse and they've brought Sub Terra back. They're now generally doing wider work around FV. Now they're apparently looking to build new flat rides. How much money have they got to spend on Towers? Work in the gardens seems to be going on with a few of the features but not actually the one that is linked to the planning of Horizon. Then there have been big management changes at Merlin and Towers. Who is to say that when new people have come in they've not evaluated the state of things and current plans and then decided on some substantial changes? I'm not trying to convince other people that this is what has happened, it's just myself putting bits and pieces together and saying this is my theory.
 
In terms of park expansion and the hoops they have to jump through to get anything new built, they’d have to think long and hard to not act on something they’ve got planning permission for.

Opportunities to expand the park will not come around that often, and they’ve probably already had substantial costs in design/planning that they wouldn’t want to write off.
 
@BarryZola to answer your question re funds. After the takeover to take Merlin private wasn’t it rumoured that the park were being given £60m over 5 years? With similar numbers for Chessington and a smaller amount for Thorpe?
 
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