Alton Towers by Train?

[Relife]

With all the talk on the Universal GB thread about transport etc. Is it time for Merlin to lobby the government/ Network Rail to reopen the Stoke to Leek train line?

The station is still in place and is quite close to the resort, most of the trackbed is still viable and part of it is already used for a heritage railway.

If Towers want to become an all year break, better public transport options would be great. How much more fun would Oktoberfest be if you didn't have to drive....

 

[Dave]

With all the talk on the Universal GB thread about transport etc. Is it time for Merlin to lobby the government/ Network Rail to reopen the Stoke to Leek train line?

The station is still in place and is quite close to the resort, most of the trackbed is still viable and part of it is already used for a heritage railway.

If Towers want to become an all year break, better public transport options would be great. How much more fun would Oktoberfest be if you didn't have to drive....

Pretty sure it’s already been announced that they are reopening it.

Won’t make much difference to Towers, there is already a train line from Stoke to Uttoxeter which is closer than Leek and it’s still got terrible bus connections.

 

[Relife]

The Stoke - Uttoxeter line doesn't run right next to the park like the Leek line does. If I'm traveling from Manchester is still have to get that god awful bus connection. A train would be faster and easier as a connection from Stoke Station.

 

[Ryan]

The Stoke - Uttoxeter line doesn't run right next to the park like the Leek line does. If I'm traveling from Manchester is still have to get that god awful bus connection. A train would be faster and easier as a connection from Stoke Station.

The Stoke to Leek line never really gets closer to Alton Towers than Uttoxeter, Longton, Blythe Bridge or at a push, Stoke station itself, all existing stations.

 

[Relife]

I'm probably thinking of the Churnet Valley line

 

[Matt.GC]

I'm probably thinking of the Churnet Valley line

I was about to ask if this is the line you meant?

That seems to run as far as Kingsley & Froghall as a heritage line, with a bit of track still on the ground just beyond the station. The alignment appears to still exist until Oakmoor where housing has been built on it. There's a substantial enough gap in the old alignment before it is picked up again between Oakmoor and Alton for it to be infeasible I would imagine.

There's not only plenty of untouched alignments, but also actual live trackbed of old passenger routes dotted around the country that still remain closed. There's 2 freight lines near my neck of the woods that desperately need, and have government support, to reopen and it's taken decades (one of them is due to reopen in 2 years time) and that's within the boundaries of a major city around significant housing and business development.

So I'd say the chances of effectively rebuilding a brand new section of railway line through greenbelt land just to serve a seasonal theme park is next to zero. Unfortunately of course.

 

[rob666]

Yup, we have spun this particular carousel many times.
Lovely idea, massively expensive, and pretty useless for the Towers peak flow of punters.
And we would lose a lovely local walk of course.

 

[s_g_k]

If Alton Towers were serious about improving their accessibility, they could put on their own bus services from Uttoxeter and Stoke on Trent train stations. 2 or 3 themed buses a day to get punters to the park between 9 and 11am. Then the same to get them back.

Coincide them with train arrivals, (this seems like an impossible task for most bus operators these days), decal up a few buses with AT theming and have Towers Street music playing on repeat. Add this transport option into the app so people can purchase tickets in advance when booking tickets, job done.

 

[Ash]

I’ve written on this topic extensively in other topics so I’ll try to keep it brief.

I’ll try to break the line up into multiple lines that all converge at Leekbrook

Stoke > Leekbrook
Leekbrook > Leek
Leekbrook > Caldon Quarry
Leekbrook > Denstone (including Alton)

Stoke to Leekbrook
Stoke to Leekbrook is currently a “mothballed” railway line which is owned by network rail. It is mothballed as rail access “should” be available to Caldon Quarry within 48 hours in times of war. As a matter of national interest.

It is “allegedly” scheduled to be reopened using the HS2 funding. But nothing has happened in regards to this yet. It is in a significant state of disrepair but the line is still there and connects to the mainline just after Stoke station. It is planned it would have a separate platform somewhere near the range which is where the line starts. And could stop at Fenton, Endon, Wall Grange, Stockton brook before reaching Leekbrook junction.

A quick search on YouTube will show many people who have walked the track recently.

Leekbrook to Leek
This leg is has very recently been installed by an outside company on behalf of the CVR and is owned by the CVR. A new platform is being built as we speak on the edge of Leek on the corn hill industrial estate. About half a mile from the old station (now Morrisons). This new station is due to open this year and you can go and see it for yourself, as it will serve the largest population on the line it should be a significant boost for local tourism.

This line used to link up to Macclesfield but as the Morrisons has been built on the site is where it will have to terminate.

Leekbrook to Caldon
This line is currently owned by CVR and runs to just before bottom house. And just before Peak Wildlife park (a great place to visit). The track bed is still there, if the line was extended another couple of mile it would reach Caldon quarry, where I believe asphalt is extracted. This could be loaded onto trains to transport in the future.

Leekbrook to Denstone.
This is currently the main part of the CVR line, and goes to Cheddleton, Consall and Froghall stations. Froghall station is where the current line ends. There are current plans to extend the line further to Moneystone Quarry just before Oakamoor Tunnel and Oakamoor Station but no further.

The trackbed beyond Oakamoor is owned by Staffordshire County Council. The tunnel, trackbed and platforms are in Oakamoor, Alton and Denstone. And could be reinstated. However it’s believed wealthy residents in this part of the world may put a stop to any plans and the County Council would never sell. But it is possible.

The station building at Alton is owned by the landmark trust (but not the platforms) The large building by Alton bridge is owned by Alton Towers, obviously as is the gatehouse.

Past Alton the trackbed then extends to Denstone station. Where the station platforms are in place. And could be a great park and ride point from the A50, as would Leek. However the line couldn’t extend any further past Denstone due to a house being built in its path.

To reopen trains to Alton, either from Leek or with mainline access after changing platforms at Stoke, absolutely is “technically” possible. And would provide an extraordinary experience. Take cars off the road. Increase footfall/accessibility etc etc.

The likelihood of it ever happening however is extremely small and would take years, as is the UK at the moment. All for roughly 5 miles of relaid railway track (Froghall to Alton)…

Done.

 

[owenstreet7]

If Alton Towers were serious about improving their accessibility, they could put on their own bus services from Uttoxeter and Stoke on Trent train stations. 2 or 3 themed buses a day to get punters to the park between 9 and 11am. Then the same to get them back.

Coincide them with train arrivals, (this seems like an impossible task for most bus operators these days), decal up a few buses with AT theming and have Towers Street music playing on repeat. Add this transport option into the app so people can purchase tickets in advance when booking tickets, job done.

I completely agree with this, AT needs to take a page out of Thorpe Park, Phantasialand or Europa Park's book and offer a shuttle bus from nearby stations. I'm surprised this hasn't been done yet especially for one of the UK's biggest tourist attractions.

 

[jibbsie]

The likelihood of it ever happening however is extremely small and would take years, as is the UK at the moment. All for roughly 5 miles of relaid railway track (Froghall to Alton)…

from reading the CVR, they have said they would like to expand their service in the alton direction, considering they have managed to expand to leek I would imagine if it were to re open it would probably be done by CVR similar to the leek expansion,

for a bit of proof, I did try to find a statment of the ambitions toward alton as I saw that many people have said there are proposals (I think from some "churnet valley master plan") but I couldn't see a direct statment, although reopening oakamoor tunnel and adding a station would probably be a big step forawd, as far as i can tell most of the rest of the line is intact and a walking trail (which could be kept and seperated by a fence)

The extension to Leek is just part of a wider proposals to extend the line – eventually passengers will be able to board the train at Oakamoor, with its new holiday village, and travel directly to Leek, via all stations in-between, enabling people to enjoy the countryside without the need to take their car every time.

from here: https://www.churnetvalleyrailway.co.uk/news/1-4-million-for-churnet-valley-railway

 

[Kraken27]

I can't see it ever happening personally. My parents live in a village one end of a heritage railway line and it took absolutely years to get the final 4 or 5 miles complete. The final few miles only happened as a bit of "rush job" due to an anonymous donor stumping up the cash.

Some years ago the rules changed & if new [or replacement] track works were completed after a set date you had to pay a small fortune for it to be independently inspected before you could run any trains on it. They got in there just in time before this date so they could self-certify.

 

[Ash]

from reading the CVR, they have said they would like to expand their service in the alton direction, considering they have managed to expand to leek I would imagine if it were to re open it would probably be done by CVR similar to the leek expansion,

for a bit of proof, I did try to find a statment of the ambitions toward alton as I saw that many people have said there are proposals (I think from some "churnet valley master plan") but I couldn't see a direct statment, although reopening oakamoor tunnel and adding a station would probably be a big step forawd, as far as i can tell most of the rest of the line is intact and a walking trail (which could be kept and seperated by a fence)

from here: https://www.churnetvalleyrailway.co.uk/news/1-4-million-for-churnet-valley-railway

Given the state of the line between Oakamoor and Alton they’d need external help and involves crossing a bridge so would cost millions.

As I’ve stated though, the problem is east of Moneystone quarry/Oakamoor it is owned by Staffordshire county council. CVR own Kingsley to Moneystone (pre tunnel) which is the only extension on the cards once leek is open. Which is about a mile and a half. And would probably be done in house. But with the Moneystone project now seemingly dead that seems less likely.

However if that was done, we’re only talking another 4 mile to Alton. Although I assume the person who owns the crossing cottage in Oakamoor may have something to say…

That would be the CVR basically using all of its available trackbed. Without venturing into network rail/or towards Alton.

And unless the UK has an epiphany in how it wants to do development, the best we will get. Which is a crying shame

 

[rob666]

Massive cost for a non peak flow solution.
Never in a million years.
Buses are a cheap, quick and available option.
But we haven't even got that.
There are pipe dreams, then there is the train to the Towers.

 

[benpicko]

Lack of public transport is the major reason I've not been for a few years. Impossible to get there if you can't drive and I no longer live reasonably close with friends and family who go every year.

 

[Relife]

Massive cost for a non peak flow solution.
Never in a million years.
Buses are a cheap, quick and available option.
But we haven't even got that.
There are pipe dreams, then there is the train to the Towers.

This is why nothing ever gets built these days. 100 years ago they would just do it. I don't see why it can't be done especially with some of that HS2 money

 

[rob666]

Because there would not be enough punters to sustain the project economically.
A century ago they did indeed do these things, but fifty years ago they realised that local lines were massively expensive to run, could not be justified in the long run due to the popularity of the motor car, and the axe fell.

 

[Ryan]

This is why nothing ever gets built these days. 100 years ago they would just do it. I don't see why it can't be done especially with some of that HS2 money

100 years ago a visitor attraction in the middle of nowhere wouldn't have thrived without public transit connections of some sort.

Now they can and do, because of the car.

The steps needed to build a railway that would be in any way useful to Alton Towers aren't small, easy things to do.

- Build a new platform at SOT
- Un-mothball a line that has been closed for 40 years, bringing it up to modern spec
- rebuild multiple stations
- buy out a successful heritage railway
- bring their line up to modern spec
- build a brand new modern spec railway between the end of their current line and the final destination, in tough terrain, and with a new alignment due to new buildings
- electrify the whole thing
- procure rolling stock, with enough capacity to take thousands of people one way within a 1-2 hour window, and back again 8 hours later, with barely any traffic for the rest of the day, and next to zero passengers for 4-5 months of the year.
- Recruit and train enough drivers to drive the maximum number of trains you'll ever want to run, plus cover for leave and sickness. Bear in mind they'd need to be employed year round, for around net £80k a year, and they take up to 2 years to train.
- Oh, build up a train operating company, from scratch.
- Maintain everything to modern standards, year round

So we're talking, easily, hundreds and hundreds and HUNDREDS of millions of pounds. For what benefit? You'd be incredibly lucky to achieve a 20% modal split with this concept in this environment, that's 400,000 visitors using the train. Charge them £20 return and you'd bring in £8m a year - it wouldn't scratch the surface of the costs of the project, staffing, traction leasing and maintenance.

And after all that, it would still, due to its route, be slower than a shuttle bus.

 

[rob666]

Let's not let the truth get in the way of a good dream, again.
We can always go round in the same circle again in another six months.

 

[jibbsie]

buy out a successful heritage railway

I have been thinking about this differntly, in my oppinion there is very little chance that alton would open and operate a rail line, but the herratige railway have said they want to expand after the leek expansion towards oakmore, i think the line MAY reopen, under the herratge railway, I don't think there would be any mainline / modern service, but from the perspective of the railway line, it could make a some financial sence as you would have a very popular tourist destination on one end, and leek, which is supposed to get a train station according to this: https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/leek-stoke-train-line-reopen-8804679
but all of this would require funding and would probably take decades