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Alton Towers Ruins - Behind a Paywall

The Gardens are way more perilous. Twisted ankles galore.

They are out to save/reclaim money on this plain and simple.

I find it a little bizarre to even comment on it. They have been shut for years, so the tours could have easily been quietly introduced without comment on the seemingly permanent retirement of free access.
 
People in the 80s didn’t run off to solicitors advertising no win no fee compensation claims when someone twists their ankle in the towers because the floor is uneven. Yes, that’s the world we live in today.

Bump you head on something in those days and it was your fault for not looking where you were going. Do it now and it’s someone else’s fault for not warning you at least 200 yards ahead and not having a flashing yellow light and klaxon to warn you. Company is named on social media, news sites and incurs a H&S fine. Result the company removes access or puts up signs and fences everywhere.

Who would have thought that climbing into a ride area carries the risk of death! Apparently lots of people don’t know that these days.

People sadly don’t take any responsibility for their actions anymore , it’s always someone else’s fault.
 
Misdemeanour and unauthorised access were stated as the reasons for a lack of free flow access to the Towers.

Accidents and liability haven’t come into it.

Call them out for the stated reasons and all that if folks don’t believe them, but making up reasons to have a rant about ‘people today’ doesn’t feel very productive.
 
I know two people, one of which has a piece of Minton tile ripped from the towers, and another with a shard of stained glass window. They both frequented TTF and called themselves fans of the park.

I've walked into a room in the ruins to find someone pissing against the wall.

In the summer of 2006, signs of a small rubbish fire were found in an alcove in the ruins.

Totally unsupervised access was always a poor choice, even if the majority of people were behaving themselves. I don't disagree that the original closures were probably more to do with Scarefest set strike laziness than anything else. But the ruins were left open every day in the past because that's how it had always been. Now, the park are having to make an informed, intentional decision to reopen them, and I wouldn't be surprised if on reflection they realise it isn't a smart choice.

A theme park is not a normal visitor attraction. People are often full of weed, alcohol or sugar, it's often a place where school kids have total freedom to roam. People entering more traditional heritage sites usually do so in a certain state of mind and with a certain level of respect. At a theme park that self-control often isn't there. Would the teachers of a school group be holed up in a "teachers lounge" at any other visit to a free-roam country house?

I have a lot of first hand experience of Warwick Castle struggling with this, people aren't expecting to have to treat Britain's Ultimate Castle, marketed as a theme park without rides, in the same way as a "stuffy" National Trust property. So things were often broken, ropes often crossed, I've seen people light-up next to a 16th century tapestry, priceless ceramics being held up for selfies, a snapped-off piece of a gorgeous antique wooden cabinet in the hand of a toddler on the other side of the site from the cabinet itself, free-roaming peacocks kicked, original Victorian greenhouse glass smashed with footballs, etc etc etc.

Unsupervised access hasn't been a sensible choice for a long time, and it certainly hasn't become any more sensible over the years. They need to come at this problem of having a great bit of heritage to share, but it being in the middle of a modern, busy theme park, with some thought, and with caution.
 
Ryan said:
Unsupervised access hasn't been a sensible choice for a long time, and it certainly hasn't become any more sensible over the years. They need to come at this problem of having a great bit of heritage to share, but it being in the middle of a modern, busy theme park, with some thought, and with caution.
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Completely agree with this. It’s about getting that balance of freedom to explore and protecting a historical site.

I think for the future a system of volunteer guides in the main spaces could work- like a national trust property does. Having set days when the house is open and manned by volunteer guides who are knowledgable about the towers and each of the rooms. Some exhibitions as well wouldn’t go amiss!

I’m a big fan of this ideas of tours! As someone who has read a lot of books on Pugin and the brilliant Alton Towers: A gothic wonderland I’m excited to hopefully learn more about the towers and gardens.
 
Ryan said:
I know two people, one of which has a piece of Minton tile ripped from the towers, and another with a shard of stained glass window. They both frequented TTF and called themselves fans of the park.

I've walked into a room in the ruins to find someone pissing against the wall.

In the summer of 2006, signs of a small rubbish fire were found in an alcove in the ruins.

Totally unsupervised access was always a poor choice, even if the majority of people were behaving themselves. I don't disagree that the original closures were probably more to do with Scarefest set strike laziness than anything else. But the ruins were left open every day in the past because that's how it had always been. Now, the park are having to make an informed, intentional decision to reopen them, and I wouldn't be surprised if on reflection they realise it isn't a smart choice.

A theme park is not a normal visitor attraction. People are often full of weed, alcohol or sugar, it's often a place where school kids have total freedom to roam. People entering more traditional heritage sites usually do so in a certain state of mind and with a certain level of respect. At a theme park that self-control often isn't there. Would the teachers of a school group be holed up in a "teachers lounge" at any other visit to a free-roam country house?

I have a lot of first hand experience of Warwick Castle struggling with this, people aren't expecting to have to treat Britain's Ultimate Castle, marketed as a theme park without rides, in the same way as a "stuffy" National Trust property. So things were often broken, ropes often crossed, I've seen people light-up next to a 16th century tapestry, priceless ceramics being held up for selfies, a snapped-off piece of a gorgeous antique wooden cabinet in the hand of a toddler on the other side of the site from the cabinet itself, free-roaming peacocks kicked, original Victorian greenhouse glass smashed with footballs, etc etc etc.

Unsupervised access hasn't been a sensible choice for a long time, and it certainly hasn't become any more sensible over the years. They need to come at this problem of having a great bit of heritage to share, but it being in the middle of a modern, busy theme park, with some thought, and with caution.
Click to expand...

Summed up perfectly.
 
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I make no apologies for pulling very few punches in this upcoming post.

The fact that the Towers have been inaccessible for a number of years now is simply unacceptable. The new that they were to begin offering guides tours for a very reasonable price of £10 was welcome, and came of the assumption that if you just wanted a look around them whilst not being part of a tour, this would come at no extra cost, just as it always used to be. But the fact they are closing them off completely to the public is quite simply a farce.

The Towers are unique and of great historical importance for the park and the area as a whole. Being able to freely spend as much or as little time as you like in the Towers was always a wonderful part of a day to Alton Towers, especially in the summer when the sun was shining and you could take in the glorious vistas from the rooftop. It sounds like this will never be possible again (you cannot leisurely do this during a guided tour).

Let's be honest about how this has come about:
  • For many years now, Alton Towers could not be bothered to remove Scarefest mazes from the Towers, and instead left the Towers closed all year round (or when they did open them, access was much more limited than it used to be)
  • Alton Towers have faced pressure from external organisations to ensure that there is access to the Towers
  • Someone from H&S will have come along, done a risk assessment, and said a big fat no
  • Therefore we have guided tours only
I do understand that there are issues regarding unsupervised access to the Towers, especially in the world we live in today. But I am sure that there are ways to overcome these; for example you could pay for a security staff member or two to have regular patrols around the Towers, and despite what Bianca has said I am sure that some CCTV could be installed in places.

Further to this, the talk of "uneven surfaces, dimly lit spaces" is a load of tosh. They've had scare mazes in the Towers for years whereby parts of the Towers are even more dimly lit than they would be during general access! And you go over many an uneven surface in the mazes. So I am not having that, it's just a cheap get out clause.

I hope Bianca and co reflect on this decision and come to a sensible conclusion. The Towers should be open to guests, end of story. And you should not have to pay £10, assuming that a tour is taking place on the day of your visit and there are places left on it, to be able to access the Towers.

Not. Good. Enough.
 
Once again, everyone needs to take their enthsuiast hats off for this conversation.

The general public are there to visit a theme park, and maybe have a tertiary interest (at best) in the Towers themselves. While everyone on this forum I’m sure wouldn’t dream of any nefarious intentions, the fact is that it’s an easy spot for people with ill intentions to cause problems if unsupervised. It wouldn’t cross our minds to do any damage but we are also likely to have a very different approach to the Towers

The park have a duty to prevent that, and the cost of paying for CCTV or security isn’t worth it for the small amount of people who may actively choose to go in with good intentions

In the past there’s been damage, people accessing closed areas (doors not locked for Scarefest), and I’ve also heard rumours of “relations” going on in there by some guests

It’s nice that it’s available via the tours - no doubt the most cost effective way of granting access to the few who want it while protecting the asset
 
tayspru said:
Once again, everyone needs to take their enthsuiast hats off for this conversation.

The general public are there to visit a theme park, and maybe have a tertiary interest (at best) in the Towers themselves. While everyone on this forum I’m sure wouldn’t dream of any nefarious intentions, the fact is that it’s an easy spot for people with ill intentions to cause problems if unsupervised. It wouldn’t cross our minds to do any damage but we are also likely to have a very different approach to the Towers

The park have a duty to prevent that, and the cost of paying for CCTV or security isn’t worth it for the small amount of people who may actively choose to go in with good intentions

In the past there’s been damage, people accessing closed areas (doors not locked for Scarefest), and I’ve also heard rumours of “relations” going on in there by some guests

It’s nice that it’s available via the tours - no doubt the most cost effective way of granting access to the few who want it while protecting the asset
Click to expand...
They may as well just close off the gardens as well then whilst they're at it. Often quiet, very uneven in places, if people wanted to get up to no good they could do so quite easily.

Oh wait, it would cost a substantial sum of money to erect fencing and gates to close off all access points to the gardens!
 
AT86 said:
Call them out for the stated reasons and all that if folks don’t believe them, but making up reasons to have a rant about ‘people today’ doesn’t feel very productive.
Click to expand...

Like it or not, its the truth now with all the people looking to claim compensation for the most minor of things. Have an old unsupervised, dare I say lacking maintenance in place stately home full of potential H&S hazards and its no wonder Merlin would be worried about letting the public wander around it unsupervised. And we didn't need all the "danger of death" signs all over the park in the past, or iron railings everywhere there is a bit of a slope in the gardens, or signs and constant announcements on the rapids telling people to sit down - sorry, but, excuse the pun, it is a sign of the times.
 
Rob said:
They may as well just close off the gardens as well then whilst they're at it. Often quiet, very uneven in places, if people wanted to get up to no good they could do so quite easily.

Oh wait, it would cost a substantial sum of money to erect fencing and gates to close off all access points to the gardens!
Click to expand...
Your last point nails it. There’ll be a cost / benefit analysis for any decisions the business makes. Clearly the cost of securing the towers for a free roaming offering isn’t worth it and it’s the best business choice to restrict access with the tours offered for those with a special interest. For the gardens, the cost to secure it would be more than the current cost of damage so it doesn’t get restricted
 
GaryH said:
Like it or not, its the truth now with all the people looking to claim compensation for the most minor of things. Have an old unsupervised, dare I say lacking maintenance in place stately home full of potential H&S hazards and its no wonder Merlin would be worried about letting the public wander around it unsupervised. And we didn't need all the "danger of death" signs all over the park in the past, or iron railings everywhere there is a bit of a slope in the gardens, or signs and constant announcements on the rapids telling people to sit down - sorry, but, excuse the pun, it is a sign of the times.
Click to expand...

This is just giving me Simpsons VIBES.

IMG_7005.jpeg
 
Think what you want but ask yourself why compensation and claims companies are doing so well and why companies have to go to H&S extremes now to try and prevent themselves being sued. We are guilty of looking at Alton towers with enthusiast hats on - remember we are in the minority, there are tens of thousands of people who visit each week who don't share the same beliefs, vales, whatever you want to call it.
 
Correction sir, more than one claims company has gone to the wall recently, leaving clients with very large legal bills.
All they need is a clear warning at the entrance stating low light and uneven floors.
No "headbanging" of low doorways...that has been illegal since the sixties...used to be six foot three clearance, then it went up to two metres.
H&S could be sorted by one or two trained people in a matter of a few days.
We always used to have reasonable access, there is no reason for that access not be restored properly and safely, as the Towers are a magnificent resource.
We used to use the Towers for hide and seek with the non riders, or all on rainy days.
Another excellent facility at the Towers underused, then turned into yet another upcharge.
They would upcharge for "their air" on the park if they thought they could get away with it.
 
Rob said:
I make no apologies for pulling very few punches in this upcoming post.

The fact that the Towers have been inaccessible for a number of years now is simply unacceptable. The new that they were to begin offering guides tours for a very reasonable price of £10 was welcome, and came of the assumption that if you just wanted a look around them whilst not being part of a tour, this would come at no extra cost, just as it always used to be. But the fact they are closing them off completely to the public is quite simply a farce.

The Towers are unique and of great historical importance for the park and the area as a whole. Being able to freely spend as much or as little time as you like in the Towers was always a wonderful part of a day to Alton Towers, especially in the summer when the sun was shining and you could take in the glorious vistas from the rooftop. It sounds like this will never be possible again (you cannot leisurely do this during a guided tour).

Let's be honest about how this has come about:
  • For many years now, Alton Towers could not be bothered to remove Scarefest mazes from the Towers, and instead left the Towers closed all year round (or when they did open them, access was much more limited than it used to be)
  • Alton Towers have faced pressure from external organisations to ensure that there is access to the Towers
  • Someone from H&S will have come along, done a risk assessment, and said a big fat no
  • Therefore we have guided tours only
I do understand that there are issues regarding unsupervised access to the Towers, especially in the world we live in today. But I am sure that there are ways to overcome these; for example you could pay for a security staff member or two to have regular patrols around the Towers, and despite what Bianca has said I am sure that some CCTV could be installed in places.

Further to this, the talk of "uneven surfaces, dimly lit spaces" is a load of tosh. They've had scare mazes in the Towers for years whereby parts of the Towers are even more dimly lit than they would be during general access! And you go over many an uneven surface in the mazes. So I am not having that, it's just a cheap get out clause.

I hope Bianca and co reflect on this decision and come to a sensible conclusion. The Towers should be open to guests, end of story. And you should not have to pay £10, assuming that a tour is taking place on the day of your visit and there are places left on it, to be able to access the Towers.

Not. Good. Enough.
Click to expand...

There are countless people, generally of the retired persuasion, who love doing this sort of thing on a voluntary basis to keep them busy. Hospitals are crawling with retired volunteers and they are all over English Heritage and National Trust sites. I'm sure they could scrape up some people who were happy to potter around the the buildings talking and guiding people in the right direction if they had a mind to. You could probably even find some people on this board or with annual passes who have far too much free time to do it too.

I agree that uneven spaces is a complete load of bobbins too, as I've previously stated Merlin are happy to have people tromping all over Warwick Castle and the National Trust just get people to tick a box/waiver when you buy a ticket to one of their castles. God help any of these people if they ever go for a walk along the un-railed sections of York's walls...
 
I see what people are annoyed at, but I also see where towers are comming from, Warwick Castle people go for the castle, but alton 99% of people are going for the rides and that will attract a differnt type of guests, and I think the problem will mostly be damage to the towers, consider how much damage the queue scenery gets, even with a staff right next to it, the preshow waiting area the wall already looks like it did last year and it was fixed this season!

Also it only takes one marker for someone to ruin it, once the damage is done it could be hard to repare, and there will still be blind spots, cameras or guards can't see everything, there will be blind spots, and if there are quite a few then it could just mean people crowd arround that.

I also think the culture of visiting the towers has changed, it may have been to visit the towers and get on some rides, but now it is just about the rides for most people.
 
99% of people aren't going for the rides!
People go in groups, often with non riders, been there all my life.
90% possibly, but that leaves 10% that choose not to ride with very limited options, when they used to have many.
Young mums, scaredy cats, old gits, sad uncles, heart issue sufferers, they all visit with friends, work groups and family, and end up in the cafes and limited arcades.
So much stuff has gone over the years.
Reopen the Towers!
Bring back the model railway!
And that weird god thing (Credo?).
 
rob666 said:
99% of people aren't going for the rides!
People go in groups, often with non riders, been there all my life.
90% possibly, but that leaves 10% that choose not to ride with very limited options, when they used to have many.
Young mums, scaredy cats, old gits, sad uncles, heart issue sufferers, they all visit with friends, work groups and family, and end up in the cafes and limited arcades.
So much stuff has gone over the years.
Reopen the Towers!
Bring back the model railway!
And that weird god thing (Credo?).
Click to expand...
I did forget about non rides, but I still think it is manly due to people damaging the towers, think about how many people carve their name into stuff, someone would probably give it a go in the towers, if it takes 5 mins for the security guard to notice what they are doing on cctv and walk over, they could be gone by then and the damage is done as annoying as it is, is it the few people who wrote heir phone numbers, or x was here who ruin it for everyone
 
There were (probably more) idiots and vandals back then than now...the only difference being they had chisel tips, and now they have sharpies.
Vandalism can be removed, repaired and quickly treated, the vandals will be in the queues more likely than the towers, and the shaggers will still be in the bushes and gardens, I remember the grass "ride" of picnic tables up to the side of the corkscrew in my youth...the picnic table bays were often very "busy"...sex drugs and rock and roll.
The Towers ruins in comparison were cool, quiet and respected by pretty much all.
Proper stately stuff.
And me.
 
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