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Alton Towers Ruins - Behind a Paywall

My feeling on this is that Bianca and Towers management have been forced to compromise.

‘We’ll open the towers up again Merlin hq’
‘Why’
‘Because they are a national treasure and another free attraction’
………
‘Hold that thought Bianca we will be back’
……….
‘Health and safety assessments say you can’t do it, but they say if the tours are guided then small groups can enter. Suggest you charge £10’
 
DistortAMG said:
I've personally never said it is OK, I also said it was not an ideal situation, because it is not. What I have said is that in the current climate we live in, with generations of people the way they are, it is a decent and affordable compromise so that we can still enjoy the Towers in a way that ensures their preservation, without breaking the bank to us. A hot dog on the park costs more money for a bit of perspective.

I said previously, that the public were burning 5G masts 4 years ago, because of (for lack of a better description), a serious lack of intelligence and respect. Given that, you seriously can't trust the public with un restricted access to historic buildings, you can't, the clues and reasons why are all around us within modern society and issues we face in 2024. Even that historic tree, by Hadrians wall, was culled in mindless vandalism last year. Destroying the tree and damaging an ancient wall, for no reason other than to just destory it. I'm sorry, but people are kidding themselves if they believe a minority of people can be trusted in this day and age to not vandalise things. The evidence is overwhelming to suggest otherwise.

The people complaining about the cost and restricted access, would soon be complaining when parts of the Towers were damaged, quite rightly so too.

But we live in the climate we live in, Alton Towers are not to blame for that. It would have been easier for Alton to keep them closed. They haven't done that, they have clearly tried to find a compromise which not only allows the public to still enjoy the Towers given the demand and high request to see them, but also while protecting their historic importance in this crazy, zero respect and unprecedented world we now live in.

Rightly so too, why should they take the risk? A risk that clearly exists even when looking around the park in queues, her ladyship gardens and parts of the Towers as a few examples before you even look at whats happened around the UK. For what? Just so that myself and others can enjoy it for free? That in my view, given the current climate is quite a selfish reasoning.

I want to enjoy the Towers for sure, I want them to remain intact however, much more than I want to walk though them. I am proud of our heritage and I am proud that it is not being subject to mindless vandalism. If that means I can't enjoy them as I want. Then so be it. Because the important thing here is preserving them, not me being able to visit them when I wish, I think people loose sight of that when they get caught all up in this. Although, in an ideal would, that would be great. But in an ideal world we would have solved world hunger, our world energy problems and would all live in peace.

Finally, they did close originally when the park decided to save costs and not dismantle scare mazes, but since then, the world has moved on fast and alot. We live in very different times now than what we did when they originally closed as a cost saving measure.
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I don't deny much of this, although Alton Towers is a more controlled environment than a street where you'll find a 5G mast. And I am sure that some of these factors have played a part in the decision that has been made. Do I feel that it is the primary reason? No.

The Towers are Grade II* listed, which means they are of more than special interest. The Alton Towers Gardens (and other parkland) are Grade I listed, an even higher status. If the prime reason for not allowing anyone to enter the Towers was to help preserve them, then they would also be stopping people from entering the Gardens. There is no logical reason as to why they wouldn't, on the basis of preservation. You could argue that as the Gardens are outdoors more people are likely to see if you're up to no good, but for people who are hellbent on causing damage I'm not sure this makes much of a difference.

And we cannot ignore the fact that Alton Towers themselves have hardly been the gold standard of preserving their assets. When I had a little wander around the Gardens earlier this year they were in the worst state I have ever seen them in. Hardly fitting for Grade I listed gardens. Of course this is cosmetic and could be improved with time and effort, and of course money, which is what this all boils down to.

Alton Towers/Merlin do not want to pay to make the Towers safe enough to pass a risk assessment. Alton Towers/Merlin will not want to pay, nor likely be allowed for that matter, to install fencing and gates to prevent all access to the Gardens.
 
Rob’s right. We can argue forever about how negligent, destructive or totally stupid the general public is. All that does is fall for the excuse the Resort has rolled out. There’s absolutely no evidence that they’ve even investigated the potential of a proper reopening - they’ve just chosen the easiest, cheapest option they could get away with.
 
tayspru said:
And in shocking developments, a private entity based in Staffordshire has made a business decision without deferring to the opinions of less than 1% of its customer base. More on this case at 11
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And in another shocking development, members of a discussion forum that centres on said private entity based in Staffordshire wish to discuss said decision! ;)
 
M
Rob said:
And in another shocking development, members of a discussion forum that centres on said private entity based in Staffordshire wish to discuss said decision! ;)
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My point being, those speculating on the many reasons why the park got to their decision are being absolutely shut down by “But I wouldn’t behave like that” people who feel like it’s a personal attack, and *that* has been going around in circles for pages and pages of the thread

Especially egregious is that most will probably try the tour regardless
 
tayspru said:
My point being, those speculating on the many reasons why the park got to their decision are being absolutely shut down by “But I wouldn’t behave like that” people who feel like it’s a personal attack, and *that* has been going around in circles for pages and pages of the thread

Especially egregious is that most will probably try the tour regardless
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I actually think that the discussion in this thread has been good, and I have enjoyed reading the points made from those on both sides. I don't think anyone is saying it is a personal attack, but some people do feel strongly about the decision that has been taken, as do we as a site for that matter. No problems with that!
 
For those who do not wish to watch the video, the point made is that they were told that someone did get in to the Towers a couple of weeks ago and graffitied one of the fireplaces. Obviously that is awful, but having them closed off it not going to stop that, seeing as whoever did do it got in when they were closed.

I'd argue that things like that are less likely to happen if the Towers are open and other people might be in there to either call it out or just their presence alone might be enough to put someone off. People who are hellbent on things like this get a kick out of going in to restricted areas, if it is not a restricted area then they might not bother!

Who knows, just a different take on it. It's a shame that there are those idiots out there though.
 
Rob said:
For those who do not wish to watch the video, the point made is that they were told that someone did get in to the Towers a couple of weeks ago and graffitied one of the fireplaces. Obviously that is awful, but having them closed off it not going to stop that, seeing as whoever did do it got in when they were closed.

I'd argue that things like that are less likely to happen if the Towers are open and other people might be in there to either call it out or just their presence alone might be enough to put someone off. People who are hellbent on things like this get a kick out of going in to restricted areas, if it is not a restricted area then they might not bother!

Who knows, just a different take on it. It's a shame that there are those idiots out there though.
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I agree with this, allow more people in and the well-behaved at least provide a visible presence that puts off the bad-behaved to an extent.
 
Rob said:
For those who do not wish to watch the video, the point made is that they were told that someone did get in to the Towers a couple of weeks ago and graffitied one of the fireplaces. Obviously that is awful, but having them closed off it not going to stop that, seeing as whoever did do it got in when they were closed.

I'd argue that things like that are less likely to happen if the Towers are open and other people might be in there to either call it out or just their presence alone might be enough to put someone off. People who are hellbent on things like this get a kick out of going in to restricted areas, if it is not a restricted area then they might not bother!

Who knows, just a different take on it. It's a shame that there are those idiots out there though.
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I think it just proves the point I was making even more. They already were getting vandalised when open previously though. That's the thing. Atleast having them closed limits the amount of potential vandals.
 
To be honest, in my opinion, from what I've gathered from the whole locking the ruins behind a paywall thing, is that I wouldn't be surprised if English Heritage may have had something to do with it as well. As they'd want the Towers to try and be restored. With Merlin/AT being allowed to let people go through the ruins for free with the standard admission.

With the act of vandalism which people have talked about, English Heritage probably forced Merlin and probably tried to get local authorities involved to 'lockdown' the ruins from the public due to the vandalism. I just hope that maybe AT/Merlin and possibly English Heritage try to rebuild the towers using the funds generated by these tours if they prove successful enough and worthwhile.
 
English Heritage have no involvement with private listed buildings. They are an owner of certain historic buildings, structures and premises, similar to. National Trust. You may be mistaking English Heritage for Historic England, who are consulted during the planning process.

The Local Planning Authority have some powers to control listed buildings, but it is limited. The main control they have is over the grant or refusal of planning permission for alteration, demolition etc.

It is highly unlikely that the LPA have endorsed the closure of the Towers to the public.
 
venny said:
English Heritage have no involvement with private listed buildings. They are an owner of certain historic buildings, structures and premises, similar to. National Trust. You may be mistaking English Heritage for Historic England, who are consulted during the planning process.

The Local Planning Authority have some powers to control listed buildings, but it is limited. The main control they have is over the grant or refusal of planning permission for alteration, demolition etc.

It is highly unlikely that the LPA have endorsed the closure of the Towers to the public.
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I probably am, I was in a rush to write it on my end, so I'll admit that!
Kinda wish AT did at least try to rebuild the towers if they ever could though!
 
I went on the house and gardens tour today. Firstly, excellent tour guide. Very professional and the info given was pretty comprehensive on the stuff we saw. There were only 3-4 times where I felt I wanted to add some additional bits of info (which I didn't do whilst the tour was in operation as the guide was already busy enough talking and then getting prepared for the next feature, and it can in certain situations just be a bit rude to do so). The other 2 staff members with the guide were pleasant and helpful, so thumbs up to the staff on the tour. On the whole the tour was good and is worth a tenner, especially if you're pretty new to the Gardens and Towers.

Ok, so what was not so good? I felt that because of the length of the tour being only 2 hours, it's a short space of time to try to fit in both the Towers and Gardens in any kind of detail. There were certain features (such as Le Refuge and the bath fountain) that were not looked at and I feel that that's a pretty interesting little area that could be spoken about a bit. But like I say, you're trying to fit the gardens into a 1 hour slot in reality, so if you start adding additional stuff, before you know it the tour is taking 2-3 hours, so I can see why this ends up happening. There wasn't time to actually go to the Swiss Cottage either, we just looked at it from the other side of the valley.

Same kind of thing with the Towers too, but to a larger extent. Inside we only saw the conservatory, Drawing Room, up the stairs to the roof and back down, Long Gallery, Banqueting Hall and the Chapel. But again, in this situation you only have less than an hour really. There was no access to the Music Room, Poets Bay and the West Wing. No looking at the Pugin Rooms on the way up to the roof etc. Even the little waxworks room was fenced off from the Drawing Room.

I'm talking ideally now, but personally I think you could have a more specialized tour of a few hours for the house (with a toilet break half way through) and a separate tour for the Gardens with a small break half way through. Ideally you'd get to do some cool stuff like have a look inside the Swiss Cottage, the little room at Le Refuge, inside the Gothic Prospect Tower or the Flag Tower. Stuff like that. When in the house you could look at more areas like the West Wing, servants areas, the tunnel beneath the conservatory, the Talbot Gallery and so many other things. The cost would have to go up with the length of the tour I think which would be understandable.

So overall, very happy with the tour today and the guide and other staff. But, I feel it would benefit a lot from being expanded and maybe the Gardens and Towers being split into different tours, with some extra interesting stuff thrown in. But for £10 what they're doing at the moment is absolutely fine.

Also, they actually pointed out something that I'd been looking for for years, but couldn't locate it exactly, so I learned something new :) 👍
 
I'm not sure if a longer tour would interest many people, to be honest. Even with these tours, I assume most people booking will be regulars or those living near the park. Longer tours would only interest a small amount of people, even then, it would be a one and done thing, although I guess with these current tours it gives them an idea of interest. Did they gain any feedback at the end of the tour @BarryZola?

This will likely be an unpopular opinion. How about they open the Towers publically but with a small additional charge. Maybe £5 entry and have a dedicated entrance/exit into the ruins. This would allow public access and hopefully deter any potential vandals. Also, run these tours after the park closes.

I would go one step further and have information boards in each room giving a history (there's lots of information available to do this), and they could even have staff in rooms (potentially look at volunteers?).
 
Yeah, to be honest, I wouldn't mind a small fee to be able to free-roam the Towers with info boards throughout in the way you suggest. But that would have to be with all safe areas open (not just 6/7 select rooms). They could potentially do something for parts of closed season too with regards to the Towers especially. As for feedback at the end of the tour, I personally suggested a few things information-wise to the support staff on the way around and a couple of things in the Chapel at the end where the tour concluded. Most people seemed happy with the tour and the staff were thanked as you'd expect. The Banqueting Hall and roof seemed to be the places where most of the cameras came out. I think the Banqueting Hall would be the most sensitive room with regards to vandalism as the stained glass window is a pretty important piece of work and obviously recently restored.

They did seem keen to tell people to take lots of photos and leave feedback about the tour (not sure where), so that's sort of what I'm doing here as I'm sure at some point in the next few weeks this thread will be perused by someone at Towers. But yeah, a more specialized tour with a guide would definitely not be suitable for most people as a regular thing. That's why I think that the current tour is fine for what it is at the moment for most people. Going forward they will obviously look at feedback and see if they wish to change anything, or even run tours at all.

Maybe just employ someone to work in the Towers. To monitor a few CCTV cameras in the most sensitive places and to wander around as someone to give info and to act as a deterrent to unsavoury behaviour. Have info boards around the rooms. Then like you say, charge a few quid for entry.
 
Sounds to me like if this is the way forward, they'd be better off splitting the gardens and Towers in to two seperate tours. If nothing else, they could charge twice! Though I suspect the ammount of people willing to pay for the gardens alone would be limited, especially as they are still ope...
.... Ah, no. Didn't think this through, did I? They'll just seal off the gardens as well if they go down that route.

Nothing to see here! Don't read this, Merlin! LALALALALALALA!
 
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