Alton Towers Ruins - Behind a Paywall

[dave___]

There were (probably more) idiots and vandals back then than now...the only difference being they had chisel tips, and now they have sharpies.
Vandalism can be removed, repaired and quickly treated, the vandals will be in the queues more likely than the towers, and the shaggers will still be in the bushes and gardens, I remember the grass "ride" of picnic tables up to the side of the corkscrew in my youth...the picnic table bays were often very "busy"...sex drugs and rock and roll.
The Towers ruins in comparison were cool, quiet and respected by pretty much all.
Proper stately stuff.
And me.

Graffiti is one of those things that has endured over the ages, will always happen no matter the methods put in place to stop it. Some of the stuff they have found at Pompeii for example

The Bawdy Graffiti of Pompeii and Herculaneum

Everyone is now familiar with the release of quite explicit photos and service charges found on the walls of a brothel excavated at Pompeii, the resort town destroyed by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in 79 CCE. Now for your viewing pleasure comes a list of bawdy graffiti scrawled on the walls...

kashgar.com.au

Maybe in a few hundred years archaeologists will be wondering why the towers ruins have “gyat rizz” carved all over them.

 

[flyingguitar]

There were (probably more) idiots and vandals back then than now...the only difference being they had chisel tips, and now they have sharpies.
Vandalism can be removed, repaired and quickly treated, the vandals will be in the queues more likely than the towers, and the shaggers will still be in the bushes and gardens, I remember the grass "ride" of picnic tables up to the side of the corkscrew in my youth...the picnic table bays were often very "busy"...sex drugs and rock and roll.
The Towers ruins in comparison were cool, quiet and respected by pretty much all.
Proper stately stuff.
And me.

I don't know, the amount of brain rot on tic toc has probably increased it, like the lick thing where people would literally just rip stuff off walls and steal it, film it just to post it online, I just walked past a group of teens who were filming one of their friends trying to pick up a duck at a pond.

 

[Ryan]

Further to this, the talk of "uneven surfaces, dimly lit spaces" is a load of tosh. They've had scare mazes in the Towers for years whereby parts of the Towers are even more dimly lit than they would be during general access! And you go over many an uneven surface in the mazes. So I am not having that, it's just a cheap get out clause.

You're comparing wholly supervised visitation with unsupervised visitation. They are different, with different problems and challenges.

---

People, look at the title of this thread, and think about it. Every square inch of Alton Towers is behind a paywall.

There are areas of the resort that are inaccessible to visitors - there always have been, and I see little daily uproar about this fact. Understandably, because people don't have memories of what they're missing out on. The ruins are different, people do have fond memories, they are an icon of the park and they're a very interesting space to be in. But being withheld access to private property isn't unique to the ruins or the park in general. Some of our countries most beautiful, iconic, historically important buildings will never be accessible unaccompanied. This isn't some crazy authoritarian line the park are crossing, each one of us is barred from entry to important, glorious buildings 24/7.

The fact that access was historically granted, does not trump the concerns any responsible theme park operator would have about reopening ageing ruins for free roam access in 2024. Yes, originally access was most likely taken away for boring, lazy, Merlin operational reasons. But now the act of reopening them is a big decision, that needs to be justified and assessed on the reality today. How many changes and adjustments and modifications have Alton Towers made to their attractions over the years? "We used to think it was safe enough" is never enough of a reason in decision making.

"They used to be open, I enjoyed them, and I never acted unsafely" isn't enough.

I understand, truly, that this decision makes people really unhappy - and I really hope that in future the park's operators find a way to make the enjoyment of the ruins as free and easy as it used to always feel. But they've decided it isn't worth, at present, taking the steps to make it happen. And as fond as my memories of the place are, I don't feel like it's an entirely stupid, unfair or unreasonable conclusion to reach.

People feeling entitled to enter private property they have fond memories of was a huge problem at Warwick Castle - large areas of the castle, previously accessible, were taken over by ticketed attractions or office space or for storage. And return visitors were, to say the least, pissed. But it wasn't enough to sway the business to change course, and over time, nobody would be left who had even visited these areas originally. I suspect that might be what happens here - but I'd be very sad if I never got to enter those ruins, and explore that rooftop again in my lifetime.

 

[Danny]

If they want to make people pay to deter vandalism or breaking/enterings, fine. But severely limiting the capacity and restricting it to certain days doesn't seem the answer. Why not put a turnstile in where Hex's exit meets the conservatory manned by a host, and take payment there? Call it a fiver for general admission or £2.50 with MAP. That way, they're still generating revenue (perhaps even more so than doing the guided tours) and still providing a paywall/secure deterrent to people who insist on vandalising the Towers.

A bit of investment into secure doors rather than the easily breakable wooden planks that are currently in place and they'd be good to go.

 

[DistortAMG]

I don't know, the amount of brain rot on tic toc has probably increased it, like the lick thing where people would literally just rip stuff off walls and steal it, film it just to post it online, I just walked past a group of teens who were filming one of their friends trying to pick up a duck at a pond.

There was that craze led by social media, where people were eating washing tabs, the liquid type. Worldwide.

The world is absolutely worse now than it was. People are MUCH more easily led.

For god sake, at the start of lockdown, a select minority of the nation were vandalising and destroying 5G masts country wide, as they believed they caused COVID. If that doesn't tell you the blind stupidity and idiocy of a minority and generation of the nation, the same minority which will and do destroy historic buildings, then I don't know what will.

It is far from ideal, but I would rather we preserve our historic buildings until we can as a country, sort these delinquent generations out. If that means I get restricted access to things I enjoy, then so be it. I would rather they exist and not be able to enjoy them properly than for me to enjoy them unrestricted, at the cost of them being destroyed in the process.

 

[Islander]

You're comparing wholly supervised visitation with unsupervised visitation. They are different, with different problems and challenges.

---

People, look at the title of this thread, and think about it. Every square inch of Alton Towers is behind a paywall.

There are areas of the resort that are inaccessible to visitors - there always have been, and I see little daily uproar about this fact. Understandably, because people don't have memories of what they're missing out on. The ruins are different, people do have fond memories, they are an icon of the park and they're a very interesting space to be in. But being withheld access to private property isn't unique to the ruins or the park in general. Some of our countries most beautiful, iconic, historically important buildings will never be accessible unaccompanied. This isn't some crazy authoritarian line the park are crossing, each one of us is barred from entry to important, glorious buildings 24/7.

The fact that access was historically granted, does not trump the concerns any responsible theme park operator would have about reopening ageing ruins for free roam access in 2024. Yes, originally access was most likely taken away for boring, lazy, Merlin operational reasons. But now the act of reopening them is a big decision, that needs to be justified and assessed on the reality today. How many changes and adjustments and modifications have Alton Towers made to their attractions over the years? "We used to think it was safe enough" is never enough of a reason in decision making.

"They used to be open, I enjoyed them, and I never acted unsafely" isn't enough.

I understand, truly, that this decision makes people really unhappy - and I really hope that in future the park's operators find a way to make the enjoyment of the ruins as free and easy as it used to always feel. But they've decided it isn't worth, at present, taking the steps to make it happen. And as fond as my memories of the place are, I don't feel like it's an entirely stupid, unfair or unreasonable conclusion to reach.

People feeling entitled to enter private property they have fond memories of was a huge problem at Warwick Castle - large areas of the castle, previously accessible, were taken over by ticketed attractions or office space or for storage. And return visitors were, to say the least, pissed. But it wasn't enough to sway the business to change course, and over time, nobody would be left who had even visited these areas originally. I suspect that might be what happens here - but I'd be very sad if I never got to enter those ruins, and explore that rooftop again in my lifetime.

A truly great post that I think sums everything up perfectly.

Does seem a bit odd to claim that the ruins are being put behind a paywall… when the entire park is essentially behind a paywall lol.

I have some really fond memories of exploring those ruins with various TSTers on various meets, it was great fun. Sad to think it won’t be possible anymore, but seeing how the public* behave nowadays, and the idiocy that attraction operators have to put up with, this is not at all a surprising decision. Sad? Very. Predictable? Yes. Forgivable? Absolutely.

* - yes, this is a sweeping generalisation… but sadly, bad behaviour is so rife these days that it becomes a fair generalisation.

 

[rob666]

Again, in my humble opinion, not a fair generalisation...society generally today is far better behaved than the seventies and eighties.
School race wars were quite open, far more graffiti about, tons of criminal damage anywhere young people met up, car radio nicking, aeriel snapping, and lots and lots of football violence.
Things started to change around the millennium, with the influencers catching on.

And lets be clear then about more recent restrictions to access to the Towers.
Yes, they have been put behind a double pay wall...
Pay extra to see some of what you used to be able to see by paying just once.
Again, Merlin progress.

 

[DistortAMG]

Again, in my humble opinion, not a fair generalisation...society generally today is far better behaved than the seventies and eighties.
School race wars were quite open, far more graffiti about, tons of criminal damage anywhere young people met up, car radio nicking, aeriel snapping, and lots and lots of football violence.
Things started to change around the millennium, with the influencers catching on.

And lets be clear then about more recent restrictions to access to the Towers.
Yes, they have been put behind a double pay wall...
Pay extra to see some of what you used to be able to see by paying just once.
Again, Merlin progress.

I'm not saying you are wrong. But they have evolved from petty criminal damage to murder. Running around with machetes in gangs now, chopping each other up if you live in a different post code, as we sit in the middle of the worst knife crime pandemic this county has ever seen.

I can see this topic being very polarising on here and TS's social media.

As I said I would rather our heritage bd preserved. Until we can come up with a decent and sustainable way to preserve it against modern society, I feel it will stay like this.

 

[Dave]

I fully get the issues with having the Towers open, there has been antisocial behaviour in there when it’s been open in the past and it’s been vaguely amusing watching members on here who have definitely strayed into the closed parts of the ruins in the past understate the risk of such things happening…..

That said I think the park could have found a way to have free opening of the ruins, they are having to pay people to run tours, put the tour at the end of the day but open the ruins for 3 hours prior to park close and use the tour staff plus 1 security guard to monitor the ruins during this period.

 

[Sazzle]

Until we can come up with a decent and sustainable way to preserve it against modern society, I feel it will stay like this.

I have no doubt that the decision will stay - whatever risk assessments have been completed have led to the outcome of guided tours.

It doesn't mean everyone is going to agree with it, and I welcome the debate that has ensued. Food for thought and all that...

 

[Benzin]

Will the Tours of the Towers have RAP?

 

[Rob]

A truly great post that I think sums everything up perfectly.

Does seem a bit odd to claim that the ruins are being put behind a paywall… when the entire park is essentially behind a paywall lol.

I have some really fond memories of exploring those ruins with various TSTers on various meets, it was great fun. Sad to think it won’t be possible anymore, but seeing how the public* behave nowadays, and the idiocy that attraction operators have to put up with, this is not at all a surprising decision. Sad? Very. Predictable? Yes. Forgivable? Absolutely.

* - yes, this is a sweeping generalisation… but sadly, bad behaviour is so rife these days that it becomes a fair generalisation.

Well they are behind a paywall that they were not behind previously, and if I was to go to the park on a day where no tours were taking place or where they'd sold out beforehand there would be zero access.

I do not doubt that operators of all sorts of attractions have to deal with issues when it comes to opening a place like the Towers safely. And there's always going to be a minority of people that ruin things for the majority, I don't think that is anything new. If it did solely come down to these reasons then the Gardens, which also contain numerous buildings and structures of significant historical importance, would also be closed to guests.

We all know that if they wanted to open the Towers ruins to everyone for free then they could. There would be a cost involved, and it is not a cost they want to incur at this present moment. Maybe that will change in a couple of years, maybe it won't. If the sole reason is to preserve the Towers and reduce H&S incidents then the money may well be used to shut off the Gardens than enable access to the Towers.

 

[DistortAMG]

I have no doubt that the decision will stay - whatever risk assessments have been completed have led to the outcome of guided tours.

It doesn't mean everyone is going to agree with it, and I welcome the debate that has ensued. Food for thought and all that...

Absolutely. This is a very polarising issue. I find there are arguments valid on both side to be honest and I find reading the views from both sides fascinating.

 

[venny]

I don’t understand the argument that putting the Towers “behind a paywall” is okay because the whole park is already “behind a paywall”.

Just because you’re charged for entry to the park, why does that make it okay to charge an additional fee for access to the Towers? Does that mean it’s also okay to charge more to ride the rapids or to walk around the gardens?

 

[DistortAMG]

I don’t understand the argument that putting the Towers “behind a paywall” is okay because the whole park is already “behind a paywall”.

Just because you’re charged for entry to the park, why does that make it okay to charge an additional fee for access to the Towers? Does that mean it’s also okay to charge more to ride the rapids or to walk around the gardens?

I've personally never said it is OK, I also said it was not an ideal situation, because it is not. What I have said is that in the current climate we live in, with generations of people the way they are, it is a decent and affordable compromise so that we can still enjoy the Towers in a way that ensures their preservation, without breaking the bank to us. A hot dog on the park costs more money for a bit of perspective.

I said previously, that the public were burning 5G masts 4 years ago, because of (for lack of a better description), a serious lack of intelligence and respect. Given that, you seriously can't trust the public with un restricted access to historic buildings, you can't, the clues and reasons why are all around us within modern society and issues we face in 2024. Even that historic tree, by Hadrians wall, was culled in mindless vandalism last year. Destroying the tree and damaging an ancient wall, for no reason other than to just destory it. I'm sorry, but people are kidding themselves if they believe a minority of people can be trusted in this day and age to not vandalise things. The evidence is overwhelming to suggest otherwise.

The people complaining about the cost and restricted access, would soon be complaining when parts of the Towers were damaged, quite rightly so too.

But we live in the climate we live in, Alton Towers are not to blame for that. It would have been easier for Alton to keep them closed. They haven't done that, they have clearly tried to find a compromise which not only allows the public to still enjoy the Towers given the demand and high request to see them, but also while protecting their historic importance in this crazy, zero respect and unprecedented world we now live in.

Rightly so too, why should they take the risk? A risk that clearly exists even when looking around the park in queues, her ladyship gardens and parts of the Towers as a few examples before you even look at whats happened around the UK. For what? Just so that myself and others can enjoy it for free? That in my view, given the current climate is quite a selfish reasoning.

I want to enjoy the Towers for sure, I want them to remain intact however, much more than I want to walk though them. I am proud of our heritage and I am proud that it is not being subject to mindless vandalism. If that means I can't enjoy them as I want. Then so be it. Because the important thing here is preserving them, not me being able to visit them when I wish, I think people loose sight of that when they get caught all up in this. Although, in an ideal would, that would be great. But in an ideal world we would have solved world hunger, our world energy problems and would all live in peace.

Finally, they did close originally when the park decided to save costs and not dismantle scare mazes, but since then, the world has moved on fast and alot. We live in very different times now than what we did when they originally closed as a cost saving measure.

 

[flyingguitar]

but people are kidding themselves if they believe a minority of people can be trusted in this day and age to not vandalise things. The evidence is overwhelming to suggest otherwise.

yes, I think currently there are quite a few people who crave attention online, the amount of times I have seen some one doing something like damaging some historic thing to post it on social media, often to get a news story and get some attention, an example of some public damaging stuff was recently some man carved his name into the colosseum, I guarantee you something like this would happen in the towers.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Never mind getting toktik likes, we live in a world where destroying unique historical landmarks is somehow seen as a legitimate way to protest anything you have beef with.

When I am your overlord, I will bring back the good old hang/draw/quarter for these ... "lifeforms".

Still doesn't mean we should punish the whole population for the actions of a few BLEEPS, though.

 

[DistortAMG]

Never mind getting toktik likes, we live in a world where destroying unique historical landmarks is somehow seen as a legitimate way to protest anything you have beef with.

When I am your overlord, I will bring back the good old hang/draw/quarter for these ... "lifeforms".

Still doesn't mean we should punish the whole population for the actions of a few BLEEPS, though.

Unfortunately it is almost a fabric of the world we live in. The minority usually always influences the majority for better or worse. Be it decisions made due to vandalism in cases like this, people running countries or wars that are started. The majority is always influenced or reprimanded by the minority.

 

[rob666]

It has been mentioned twice, but I cannot see any relevance whatsoever between 5G masts and the opening of the Towers ruins!
Idiots are idiots I accept, but there is zero link.
There have always been idiots.
5G masts were new, in the news, and public...the Towers ruins, er, aren't.
Conspiracy idiots aside...
Large numbers of people have had issues with the masts because they are unsightly, completely needless with modern technology, and can be installed in the middle of the pavement without specific planning.
That also caused many issues and threats of burning.

 

[DistortAMG]

It has been mentioned twice, but I cannot see any relevance whatsoever between 5G masts and the opening of the Towers ruins!
Idiots are idiots I accept, but there is zero link.
There have always been idiots.
5G masts were new, in the news, and public...the Towers ruins, er, aren't.
Conspiracy idiots aside...
Large numbers of people have had issues with the masts because they are unsightly, completely needless with modern technology, and can be installed in the middle of the pavement without specific planning.
That also caused many issues and threats of burning.

There is no relevance apart from giving an example of mindless vandalism this country endures. The fact it is a 5G masts is irrelevant.