Blackpool Pleasure Beach: General Discussion

[Dave]

Blackpool have the ability to adapt quicker without the corporate weight of something like Merlin. Their risk is they haven’t had a headline attraction since 1994 so there is no institutional memory on how to deal with such a scenario.

That said I don’t think the U.K. industry will see big guest surges for a while, like it or not the Smiler and Drayton incidents have knocked consumer confidence in theme parks and that will limit any rush.

 

[venny]

Blackpool have the ability to adapt quicker without the corporate weight of something like Merlin. Their risk is they haven’t had a headline attraction since 1994 so there is no institutional memory on how to deal with such a scenario.

That said I don’t think the U.K. industry will see big guest surges for a while, like it or not the Smiler and Drayton incidents have knocked consumer confidence in theme parks and that will limit any rush.

Arguably 2000, but it’s still a long time ago. There were some days especially towards the end of last season which saw the place busier than I’ve seen in a long time. Those days saw Big One queues down the ramp, through the cattlepen, onto the path and back to Revolution. I’m not sure whether that’s a sign of things to come or a good practice for the larger crowds Icon may draw in.

Totally agree about consumer confidence though - it’s telling that numerous of the Icon promotional videos put out reiterate the safety systems on the ride.

 

[Ash84]

Nick Streak has always struggled and will continue to do so. The rest of the park should be able to cope, provided that they run the rides to a decent standard, which they have proved they can do.

Personally, I still don't think Icon is going to pull the insane crowds that people are saying. It will have nowhere near the impact of PMBO in my opinion.

This is just it though, the Streak was once the fastest queue consumer on the park. With two, 4 car trains running it saw 64 on the ride every couple of minutes. Today we have one 3 car train and a station and queue line which is among the most inefficient I have ever seen, all because they don't see fit to spend the necessary money to fix the issue.

The National also concerns me with its lengthy gaps between dispatches. That is two major rides that are below par, and both of which can do so much better.

I regard the £15 million spent on Valhalla to be the last significant investment in new hardware, since then they have lost Vikingar, Cableway, Noahs Ark, Superbowl, Trauma Towers, Wild Mouse, Black Hole, Log Flume, Monorail, Astro Swirl, Swamp Buggies, Turtle Chase, Whip, Alpine Dodgems and Space Invader. Other rides have come and gone since (Bling, Spin Doctor ect) now while some of these have been directly replaced, like the Log Flume, it's worth remembering that Infusion can't match the Log Flume in terms of capacity and the vast majority of that list haven't been replaced at all.

Couple that with the removal of the 3 train services on both the Big One and Avalanche, and the lower turnaround on just about every other coaster on park (with the possible exception of the Revolution and Blue Flyer) and I think they will be in trouble if they get busy or if Icon goes down for any length of time, especially if the Big One is down at the same time.

I don't think BPB are bragging about Icons safety any more than they did about the Big One's, just that back in 94 social media wasn't there to show that to the thousands, but anyone who bought a copy of 'where seagulls dare' will know they were proudly explaining how safe the fail safe system was (only for it to crash a matter of days later) I honestly think the are focusing and plugging the rider comfort line so much to try reverse the 'negative' effects of the Wild Mouse rather than anything to do with the Smiler.

 

[shakey]

....I regard the £15 million spent on Valhalla to be the last significant investment in new hardware, since then they have lost Vikingar, Cableway, Noahs Ark, Superbowl, Trauma Towers, Wild Mouse, Black Hole, Log Flume, Monorail, Astro Swirl, Swamp Buggies, Turtle Chase, Whip, Alpine Dodgems and Space Invader. Other rides have come and gone since (Bling, Spin Doctor ect) now while some of these have been directly replaced, like the Log Flume, it's worth remembering that Infusion can't match the Log Flume in terms of capacity and the vast majority of that list haven't been replaced at all....

You missed the tea cups and go karts. (not really crowd pullers I know but they have been removed)

I agree with pretty much everything you said in your post and you also have to add in the fact that in the 20th century the majority of the people on the park would not have been there to just ride all day like they do now as it was pay per ride and free to walk round. Many would just be there for a couple of rides and/or to soak up the atmosphere of the park. So we now have more punters hitting the rides than back in the 80's/90's and a lot less rides and ride throughput.

It's going to be a challenge for the park to keep guests happy in the main season this year. I hope they can manage it.

 

[MakoMania]

So we now have more punters hitting the rides than back in the 80's/90's

Not a chance.

I'm not giving the park any flack for closing some attractions, it was a necessity to survive. Merlin's approach to ride closures on the other hand is not a necessity.

 

[Ash84]

Dam it! I knew I'd forgotten something from the Avalanche area! I did remember the Go Karts but I'd already edited twice due to predicted text putting words in wrong and frankly couldn't be bothered with them lol.

It's very true though what Shakey says about customer flow, and it's something BPB still to this day often get wrong. They are hell bent on ramming wristbands down people's throats at 10am so they can get the doors locked and bolted at 5pm they are alienating those many day trippers who arrive at Blackpool mid afternoon, spend a few hours on the beach, on the piers or in other attractions up town. They then go for a bite to eat and arrive at BPB expecting to have an evening on the rides to find it shut, or closing within an hour or so, either way they don't want to pay for a band with an hour or so left. Now if in the summer months or when the weather is good on a weekend they had the foresight to open till 9/10pm they would capture that extra trade.

Instead they want to open till 10pm eight nights of the year but close all coasters but for the National and Streak at 9pm for the fireworks!

SOME of the rides that closed were necessary, but you can go from one extreme to the other. This summer will show if they have gone too far. After seeing Vampire Beach last year, I think it' fair to say they have....time will tell.

 

[shakey]

..in the 20th century the majority of the people on the park would not have been there to just ride all day like they do now as it was pay per ride and free to walk round. Many would just be there for a couple of rides and/or to soak up the atmosphere of the park. So we now have more punters hitting the rides than back in the 80's/90's and a lot less rides and ride throughput.

Not a chance.

I am just going on personal experiences. As a kid visiting with my parents in the 70's and early 80's we often spent 3-4 hours on the park but in that time we probably only went on 3 or 4 rides because it was pay per ride and that's all my parents allowed. I am sure plenty of families did similar things.

The park could get much busier, I am not denying that but take a busy day now and 90% of the people on the park will be either on a ride or queuing for a ride because everyone wants to get their moneys worth. In the past that simply wasn't the case and people would make the few rides they had last longer so spent more time taking in the atmosphere or spending time in the arcades or bars/food outlets. And you also had more non-riders because it was free to walk round.

It is a difficult one to quantify because the park operates in a completely different way these days.

 

[Rick]

What @Ash84 says is true, some people show up in the dying hours of the day and choose not to spend any money because a wristband is prohibitively expensive - we perhaps disagree on the number of people doing so, though.

What I think the park is battling with is that they are trying to position themselves (not the town) as a full day and short break destination (they're putting up another hotel, after all). I think it's difficult to be all things to all people - whereby you have an operating model that allows for the two types of guests above plus people who want to visit outside of your core hours for a couple of rides at a lower price. I think that's hard, so they have almost abandoned the least popular option (the final) because it will allow them to make more headway with the other two.

• If you open for more hours, the operating cost grows (and is only getting higher with the living wage)
• If you routinely open for more hours, how do you ensure that more people come - and not the same number over a longer period so your margin evaporates?
• If you open longer and the 'Pay per ride' crew don't show up - you're just doing more hours for the same price for wristband holders who spend no additional money
• If you open for too many hours, people won't stay for two days - what's the point?
• If you open for more hours, it makes your staffing infinitely more complicated
• If you operate PPR alongside wristbands, you have to find the sweet spot that allows rides not to be too expensive to pay for individually, yet still offers value for those purchasing wristbands.

With pay per ride, you kept the rides open until people stopped spending. Nowadays they have stopped spending money (on rides) the second they leave the ticket centre. You could argue that if you open longer people will spend more on food & retail, but I would argue it's not enough to risk doing so.

I could go on - it's very complicated and is not as simple as it is frequently presented.

 

[rob666]

What about opening for the same number of hours, but later in the day?
That would mean punters travelling from afar could miss peak traffic, and they could catch the loonymations trade into the evening as well.
A great number of the younger punters only get up early on a weekend if they are doing a theme park.

 

[Rick]

@rob666 I think that's possible, personally I would be broadly supportive of that as some who lives close by - but suspect it won't happen for a number of reasons.

I think it would perhaps be helpful in the teenage market. Where I think that it is more difficult is in the Nickelodeon Land targeted market. I'd prefer an early start / early finish there in that instance, I think. Also, how does that translate with the hotel model where someone has travelled to stay next to the park and they wake up 20ft from the Big Dipper for it to be closed until 2 hours after check out.

I also wonder if it would harm your lunch sales whereby people would eat before they would arrive and opt for an evening meal outside of the park.

 

[Spin-Ride-Lover]

What about opening for the same number of hours, but later in the day?
That would mean punters travelling from afar could miss peak traffic, and they could catch the loonymations trade into the evening as well.
A great number of the younger punters only get up early on a weekend if they are doing a theme park.

Not a bad idea somthing like 12pm-9pm for the rest of the park and 10am 5pm for Nickland?

 

[shakey]

Not a bad idea somthing like 12pm-9pm for the rest of the park and 10am 5pm for Nickland?

That won't work. You can't have completely different opening hours for 2 parts of the same park.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Dipper_Dave]

I really hope BPB can cope with the increased numbers that Icon will bring this season. I appreciate that Wild Mouse had poor throughput but it was another ride to go on. Their ride count has not gone up with Icon, it has stayed the same. I doubt it will happen anytime soon but I would love for them to spend the money to do whatever they need to do in order to get Streak running on 2 trains. Goons have the advantage of spotting a one hour long queue when they see one, and as such I won't touch the ride with a barge pole on a busy day, but for the GP, the wait for Streak when the queue is round the bend to the Krusty Krab or beyond must be excruciating. I am also not a fan of Streak shutting an hour before the rest of the park when Nick Land closes. I just hope that Big Dipper, Grand National, Avalanche, etc are running to capacity most days this season.

 

[DiogoJ42]

That won't work. You can't have completely different opening hours for 2 parts of the same park.

Tell this to towers!

 

[venny]

They did explore shifting the opening hours so they open and close later a couple of years ago. There was even a survey asking questions about this. Nothing changed, so it’s a reasonable guess that the majority of feedback didn’t support this (even if mine did).

 

[Rick]

Tell this to towers!

The Alton model is slightly different though, in that it's staggered opening in the same way the Pleasure Beach have done previously. If you turn up at Alton at opening time there is something open from each height group and more than one ride open from across the 'thrill spectrum', from Numtums to Octonauts to Marauders to Wicker Man (maybe ) to Smiler.

 

[Spin-Ride-Lover]

That won't work. You can't have completely different opening hours for 2 parts of the same park.

Why not? as Dipper Dave has pointed out they alreally shut nickland early anyway won't make that much differance really.

They did explore shifting the opening hours so they open and close later a couple of years ago. There was even a survey asking questions about this. Nothing changed, so it’s a reasonable guess that the majority of feedback didn’t support this (even if mine did).

Funny enough I did mention the survey to Amanda at Vampire, I don't remember everything she said but I do remember her saying that If blackpool got busy're than they would be more likey to open in the dark more offend, and they I said hopefully Icon will help with that.

 

[Ash84]

The Streak can run 2, just not with this bizarre station layout.

While the Grand National may have 4 trains on the track, the throughput generated won't hit anywhere near what it should be. And if by capacity you want the Avalanche on 2 yes that will happen, but we both know when the queue in in the cattle pen under the lift it should be on 3.

They did explore shifting the opening hours so they open and close later a couple of years ago. There was even a survey asking questions about this. Nothing changed, so it’s a reasonable guess that the majority of feedback didn’t support this (even if mine did).

Don' be too sure.

BPB also did some research several years ago into later openings, the results of which said if the should open till midnight just one night of the year it needed to be switch on night. The promptly closed the park at 5pm on the said night and opened till midnight on the first Saturday in November, it's almost like they wanted it to fail. The park by the way was rammed, and for the first time in a long while it felt like the olden days. It was so successful it was repeated the following year, harsh winds and heavy rain made it a complete wash out and it has never happened since.....

....so why the hell isn't it done at a warmer period of the year as their own research suggested.

The problem with shutting Nick Land early is a simple one and it goes back to the Streak. It' near impossible to get on that ride on a busy day. The ideal time would be as people start to leave (that's also when it' at its best, it flys down that back straight after a good 12 hour day) but instead it's closed early, while other rides elsewhere can be struggling to fill trains, this has a member of staff stood at the back of a queue preventing people from joining over an hour before ride close, just so it can be shut an hour early.

 

[venny]

BPB also did some research several years ago into later openings, the results of which said if the should open till midnight just one night of the year it needed to be switch on night. The promptly closed the park at 5pm on the said night and opened till midnight on the first Saturday in November, it's almost like they wanted it to fail. The park by the way was rammed, and for the first time in a long while it felt like the olden days. It was so successful it was repeated the following year, harsh winds and heavy rain made it a complete wash out and it has never happened since.....

....so why the hell isn't it done at a warmer period of the year as their own research suggested.

I’m not sure if we’re talking about the same event, but I do remember attending the Midnight Rider event they held, probably around 5 years ago. It was during the Illuminations, but towards the back end - I think October time. It was a mild evening for the time of year but whilst the park was busy in the day, the last couple of hours was pretty dead. Dead to the point I was disappointed because it felt like it wouldn’t happen again due to the lack of visitors. This was the event which preceded the 10pm openings with fireworks.

Don’t get me wrong, personally I’d love a return to midnight closes. What those openings showed BPB though was that a later opening event could work, but most people would not stay to the end of the night. Cue a curtailment of the opening time, with the addition of something to keep people in the park until the earlier closing - the fireworks. Those people then also spend more money on F&B etc. These days are now amongst the most lucrative of the season.

To pick up on your point about timing of the events, if you look at the distribution of the Late Night Riding events compared to previous years, they are now focused more on summer and the Illuminations seasons, for example there’s no event on April this year. So they are tailoring the events around the more popular times as they learn more each season.

As an aside, but tying in with your point about that midnight opening late in the season, the busiest Late Night Riding last season appeared to be the end of season event on the last Saturday, rather than any in the summer. The park was I think close to, if not the busiest I’ve seen since POP was introduced. The Big One queue length will forever be etched on my mind. Anyway, this might explain the reason for the midnight openings, as they were, to take place around this time of year. Even if it isn’t immediately logical, Blackpool does pull in huge crowds around this time of year. Although granted Switch On night is probably busiest, for which again I don’t think they have a Late Night event for this year. Why is anyone’s guess. Perhaps a deal with the Council?

 

[rob666]

I put a lot of the opening times shenanigans down to agreements with the council, opening on days where staff outnumber punters, always an early close on switch on night, they just don't make economic sense.
And Big One queues always get silly after dark during the lights...like the tram queues!