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Blackpool Pleasure Beach: General Discussion

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I wonder how many H&S rules that ride op at 4:08 would be breaking by stepping out in front of Blue Flyer these days?



ps if you watch the video I'd recommend muting it, unless you enjoy some Muzak.
 
I am thinking of piping the audio from this video into the lift at work. Then only students that actually need to use the would use it :D

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk
 
That's evil but also genius. Alternatively you could have an IMAscore lift, now that everyone seems to be bored of them :D
 
I don't think it would stop retracking, as long as it didn't alter the overall experience. The aim looks to be to secure the context of the historical parts of the park.

Grand National should have been protected years ago; but fortunately its feel has been protected by BPB. I can't imagine the roller coasters would be radically changed anyway (bar punching holes through for new rides).

Noahs Ark is the only tricky one. I know there is a desire to restore it, but that thing is barely recognisable at the moment.

Alice in wonderland, the river caves and the ghost house seem likely to get listed at some point I'd expect.
 
River Caves and Ghost Train have been quite heavily modified since they were installed.

This won't please the preservationists, but I would like to see new rolling stock on the Pleasure Beach woodies one day. I know people are very partial to the PTCs, but they're really not fit for purpose. The trains have evolved on both Dipper & National over the years, I am not sure that the current incarnation is the winning formula.
 
They could easily justify new rolling stock on safety and modern passenger comfort I am sure. As long as it looks appropriate, and they didn't try to make the ride behave significantly differently (i.e. faster, VR headsets etc), then that is reasonable adaption IMHO.
 
These rides being granted listed status is not a good thing for Blackpool Pleasure Beach.

About a month ago I was at London Zoo which has several listed buildings. The trouble is all of them are redundant. They got listed a couple of decades ago but since then animal welfare has come a long way and the buildings are no longer deemed fit for purpose. Yet they can't demolish them to replace them with something more fitting. Meaning this small zoo has a massive Elephant house (but no elephants) and an inappropriate penguins pool that just wastes valuable space.

The same will be true for Blackpool. With the exception of Flying Machines (which I thought was already listed) none of those rides are true classics that need protecting. And even if they were Blackpool should have the freedom to deem when a ride has had its time... no matter how historically important it may be.
 
I would say Noah's Ark deserved to be listed, it's one of only 2-3 left in the world. Grand National and Big Dipper are certainly iconic to the park, but not sure if there other examples of möbius loop racing wooden coasters in the world?
Will we see Nemesis or Vampire listed in fifty years time?
 
Tim said:
The same will be true for Blackpool. With the exception of Flying Machines (which I thought was already listed) none of those rides are true classics that need protecting. And even if they were Blackpool should have the freedom to deem when a ride has had its time... no matter how historically important it may be.
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Well the coasters are wooden, a bit of fire could soon help them...! ;)
 
Tim said:
These rides being granted listed status is not a good thing for Blackpool Pleasure Beach.

About a month ago I was at London Zoo which has several listed buildings. The trouble is all of them are redundant. They got listed a couple of decades ago but since then animal welfare has come a long way and the buildings are no longer deemed fit for purpose. Yet they can't demolish them to replace them with something more fitting. Meaning this small zoo has a massive Elephant house (but no elephants) and an inappropriate penguins pool that just wastes valuable space.

The same will be true for Blackpool. With the exception of Flying Machines (which I thought was already listed) none of those rides are true classics that need protecting. And even if they were Blackpool should have the freedom to deem when a ride has had its time... no matter how historically important it may be.
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I think comments like this show why these coasters need protecting. As far as I'm concerned, it's a massive relief to find out they've received listed status.

It really bothers me how some coaster fans can't differentiate between a ride's historical significance and their opinion of the ride.

Can people really not think beyond "I found Big Dipper rough and boring with not enough airtime. Tear it down and build the amazing fantasy RMC that will inevitably be built in its place based on no evidence at all."?

It's this kind of thinking that led to some of our most beautiful buildings being razed to the ground to be replaced by hideous 1960s monstrosities.

I fInd it odd that people have it in for Big Dipper in particular. I've always thought that if any of the classic wooden coasters were going to be protected, Dipper was the most likely candidate. It might not be as respected among the coaster community as Grand National and it might be less unusual. But among the public, it's by far the most iconic of the park's historic coasters. It's as much a part of Blackpool as the Tower or the trams.

Big Dipper, Grand National, Zipper Dipper and Roller Coaster are among the oldest operating coasters in the world. There are only a handful left from that era. The fact that even one of them has survived this long while thousands of other coasters from the 20s and 30s have been ruthlessly demolished is amazing in itself. The fact that there are so many in the same place makes Blackpool pretty much unique.

For me, if you removed the classic wooden coasters from Blackpool, it wouldn't be the Pleasure Beach any more. Part of the park's appeal is that it's a glimpse into the golden era of seaside amusements from the 20s and 30s. It's a world that has been consigned to blurry black and white photos almost everywhere else and it's the reason the park gets so much interest from international enthusiasts.

We should be proud to have such a unique collection of historic coasters and rides on our shores. Not baying for their destruction.
 
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@CGM I don't actually disagree with a lot of what you said there, but I don't think that's what @Tim was getting at (correct me if I am wrong, of course). I enjoyed the factoid about the white elephant elephant house.

He was merely stating that you could potentially end up with a situation whereby for whatever reason, you couldn't operate the Grand National, but that its listed status would mean that you would have to retain the structure. In those circumstances, I would support its demolition. There comes a time where everything has its day - especially when it's something that has to function.

Take Rocket, for example, hugely important locomotive in the development of the railways. When you're done with it, you can stick it on a pedestal at the Science Museum - you don't keep it running on the main line for centuries. Then, some guy somewhere builds a replica - it's much harder to do that with a roller coaster.

Amusement parks aren't museums, I am a big fan of historic rides but I don't have that knee-jerk response to preservation that is common in enthusiast circles. Turtle Chase & The Whip were both closed and removed because they were to impede progress, either by space and/or budget, but they both had huge historic value - you have to cut somewhere. If you didn't, you would be weaving the Mack Looper around twenty coasters and the Hotchkiss Bicycle Railway.

I take the view that I was lucky to ride various things that have come and gone, whether it be Southport's Cyclone, Morecambe's Tornado, Rhyl Water Chute etc etc - but, I wasn't around to ride the Belle Vue Bobs. Carrying on that train of thought, my kids will be around to ride stuff that was built when I am dead.

I understand the sentimentality, but you have to be pragmatic.
 
It was probably the wrecking of the Cyclone at Southport by the Thompson family, when they pulled out of the town, that created the listing process at Blackpool.
 
We have a Grade 2 listed structure in our garden. It's a piece of ornamentation that was taken from a local church and placed there in Victorian times. There is nothing that prevents the upkeep and maintenece of it so long as period-authentic materials are used to do so. For example, you have to use lime mortar rather than normal cement to repair any of the stonework.

For Blackpool, this means that any retracking work or replacement of degrading timbers should be able to go on as before but any chance of an RMC conversion is likely off the cards. In this rare case, I'm quite glad of that.

I doubt that there would be much opposition to replacing the trains or updating the control systems as in most cases, they are modern additions that are many times removed from the original rolling stock. There is also a degree of bargaining that can go on. If BPPB can make the case that making a change is in the best interests of preserving a listed structure, Historic England can grant them concessions. Much like what happened with the Towers and Hex.

I wouldn't say that it's a kneejerk reaction to want to preserve certain rides. After all, once these types of rides are gone, they're gone and they are already much rarer than any gothic church or Tudor timber-framed building. Having a high proportion of historic rides doesn't automatically turn a park into a museum either. The likes of Tivoli manage to interweave modern and vintage rides seamlessly to create a park brimming with character and a sense of history but at the same time has everything you would expect from a modern park.

In some ways I think this protects the future of the Pleasure Beach. No matter what happens to the park financially, this means that rides must be kept on the site and kept in good order. So it can never be flattened and replaced by a Tesco. (Not that I think this is likely anyway).

Overall, I'm just pleased to see that the preservation of historic rides is finally being taken seriously. As recently as a few years ago, the idea of listing a ride was laughed off as ludicrous by heritage organisations.
 
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CGM said:
I think comments like this show why these coasters need protecting. As far as I'm concerned, it's a massive relief to find out they've received listed status.

It really bothers me how some coaster fans can't differentiate between a ride's historical significance and their opinion of the ride.

Can people really not think beyond "I found Big Dipper rough and boring with not enough airtime. Tear it down and build the amazing fantasy RMC that will inevitably be built in its place based on no evidence at all."?

It's this kind of thinking that led to some of our most beautiful buildings being razed to the ground to be replaced by hideous 1960s monstrosities.

I fInd it odd that people have it in for Big Dipper in particular. I've always thought that if any of the classic wooden coasters were going to be protected, Dipper was the most likely candidate. It might not be as respected among the coaster community as Grand National and it might be less unusual. But among the public, it's by far the most iconic of the park's historic coasters. It's as much a part of Blackpool as the Tower or the trams.

Big Dipper, Grand National, Zipper Dipper and Roller Coaster are among the oldest operating coasters in the world. There are only a handful left from that era. The fact that even one of them has survived this long while thousands of other coasters from the 20s and 30s have been ruthlessly demolished is amazing in itself. The fact that there are so many in the same place makes Blackpool pretty much unique.

For me, if you removed the classic wooden coasters from Blackpool, it wouldn't be the Pleasure Beach any more. Part of the park's appeal is that it's a snapshot into the golden era of seaside amusements from the 20s and 30s. It's a world that has been consigned to blurry black and white photos almost everywhere else and it's the reason the park gets so much interest from international enthusiasts.

We should be proud to have such a unique collection of historic coasters and rides on our shores. Not baying for their destruction.
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Completely agree with this, it's madness that people call for rides like Big Dipper to be pulled down - nowhere else offers such a fantastic blend of unique, historical rides and it's what makes Pleasure Beach, well, Pleasure Beach!

With that said, I don't think listing is the answer as it should ultimately be up to Pleasure Beach to make decisions on their rides IMO.
 
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