Jb85
TS Member
You make a point but the fact still remains that Nemesis is in all but layout a new ride. No idea on the costs - but if the original was £10m like you indicate, logic would suggest the same price or more here given inflation.
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You make a point but the fact still remains that Nemesis is in all but layout a new ride. No idea on the costs - but if the original was £10m like you indicate, logic would suggest the same price or more here given inflation.
GooseOnTheLoose
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Ug Bugs
£10 million in 1994 is equivalent to £20.6 million today, according to the Bank of England's inflation calculator.
As you rightly point out, the layout and a small bit of track are all that remains of the original. Whilst they won't have had to pay for a new concept, the same costs associated with building a brand new coaster would have remained the same. We likely wouldn't say that a park purchasing, and building, a clone of a ride isn't a new investment. This is before we consider the costs associated with the station refurbishment, the eye and other theming elements and effects. (Whether they've been well received or not)
Bowser
TS Member
Aren’t the trains refurbished rather than new?
I seem to recall the bulk of Nemesis original cost was creating the pit which obviously wasn’t required this time. Then you have associated development costs which again weren’t needed.
I still maintain it’s not a new ride. It’s a refurbishment of an existing ride. There are plenty of other examples of this.
Dave
TS Founding Member
You can maintain it’s a retrack as it is, but that doesn’t make it any cheaper. The majority of the foundations where also dug out and redone which further adds to the cost.
As far as the accountants are concerned the cost of Nemesis retrack is no different on the balance sheet to the cost of a new shuttle wing coaster at Chessington.
But I really don’t get the stress, in the past investment cycles have prioritised different parks, it’s just usually been a flip between Thorpe and Towers, it’s nice to see Chessington getting a cut of the pie finally.
Visited Chessington yesterday with an overnight stay at The Safari Hotel.
The Pros:
• Low crowds
• Mandrill is a relatively good coaster, although I suffer with the backward element.
• Fairly good value for an overnight stay and a days entrance - £200 for 2 adults, 2 Children
• Being our first stay at the Safari Hotel it’s a quite nicely themed.
The Cons
• The park just feels tired. Although I would say this is common to all of Merlin’s Parks. I do appreciate it’s the end of season though.
• The food at the hotel was poor, especially at the price point - £28 for a buffet.
• Price of drinks at the bar - my lord £28 for 4 drinks. The service was horrendous as well.
• The room - whilst it’s certainly large enough, it did feel tired and the location of the room right by the landing and the stairs was horrendous. Sound of banging and running till late and early in the morning. Honestly, if you get room 204, ask to move. TV in the room was also awful, half the channels didn’t work, and the interface is terrible. Blower also blowed hot air even when on cool.
We were Merlin pass holders last year (2023) and were considering them again but there just isn’t enough to go back for in the future year or so to warrant them.
Having been to Florida in the summer it’s clear a lot of investment is needed in all of their parks to get them up the necessary standard IMO.
The Pros:
• Low crowds
• Mandrill is a relatively good coaster, although I suffer with the backward element.
• Fairly good value for an overnight stay and a days entrance - £200 for 2 adults, 2 Children
• Being our first stay at the Safari Hotel it’s a quite nicely themed.
The Cons
• The park just feels tired. Although I would say this is common to all of Merlin’s Parks. I do appreciate it’s the end of season though.
• The food at the hotel was poor, especially at the price point - £28 for a buffet.
• Price of drinks at the bar - my lord £28 for 4 drinks. The service was horrendous as well.
• The room - whilst it’s certainly large enough, it did feel tired and the location of the room right by the landing and the stairs was horrendous. Sound of banging and running till late and early in the morning. Honestly, if you get room 204, ask to move. TV in the room was also awful, half the channels didn’t work, and the interface is terrible. Blower also blowed hot air even when on cool.
We were Merlin pass holders last year (2023) and were considering them again but there just isn’t enough to go back for in the future year or so to warrant them.
Having been to Florida in the summer it’s clear a lot of investment is needed in all of their parks to get them up the necessary standard IMO.
Bowser
TS Member
It does and I already explained why in the post you quoted.
Dave
TS Founding Member
No you didn’t, you made an assumption, and regardless Nemesis reborns cost compared to 1994 is irrelevant to the point.
The question is would Nemesis retrack cost the same or more than Chessingtons wing coaster. Just looking at the amount of steel required for both, the amount of fabricated track for Nemesis is probably around double that fabricated for the wing coaster. Steel fabrication is the major cost for any coaster. The foundations for Nemesis are larger and more complicated, access for construction was more complicated, it all adds up. Even the trains being refurbished rather than full new probably doesn’t save anything as Nemesis had two trains to refurb, the wing coaster has just one train….
And as already mentioned the accountants won’t see a difference, it’s a capital expenditure of X millions, they don’t care if one is a retrack and the other is a new coaster.
So no you really didn’t explain your reasoning.
Towers4ever
TS Member
It's good we're 'arguing' over parks spending 10's of millions of pounds. Good... They should be. Merlin are a billion pound company and investment is key to survival especially with you know who on the horizon
Jb85
TS Member
Us accountants prefer capex to maintenance and refurb
Makes the profit and loss look better in the short term.
MaxPower
TS Member
Merlin may have invested a fair amount of money into Chessington over the past decade, but some of the attractions / refurbs they've installed haven't been great.
Croc Drop looks like an attraction installed at one of those knock-off Disneylands in China, Tiger Rock is just a mess of fencing everywhere and Jumanji Land isn't exactly groundbreaking.
Shipwreck Coast was a solid improvement on what was there and was a good addition along with Gruffalo, but again, they're not exactly ambitious attractions by any stretch.
Hopefully Minecraft Land will be better than what we've seen. It's just a shame that yet again they're installing a relatively short coaster when the park really needs something more substantial.
Croc Drop looks like an attraction installed at one of those knock-off Disneylands in China, Tiger Rock is just a mess of fencing everywhere and Jumanji Land isn't exactly groundbreaking.
Shipwreck Coast was a solid improvement on what was there and was a good addition along with Gruffalo, but again, they're not exactly ambitious attractions by any stretch.
Hopefully Minecraft Land will be better than what we've seen. It's just a shame that yet again they're installing a relatively short coaster when the park really needs something more substantial.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
Regardless of semantics, Nemesis Reborn was still a significant investment into Alton Towers in terms of financial outlay. That project was not cheap, whether it was a new ride or not.
It’s not like Alton Towers are exactly being neglected CAPEX-wise; it’s just that the money is being spent in ways that are less visible to the guest, such as refurbishments, rather than new rides. I do question the long term sustainability of this strategy, but I think it’s what’s needed at the moment.
It’s not like Alton Towers are exactly being neglected CAPEX-wise; it’s just that the money is being spent in ways that are less visible to the guest, such as refurbishments, rather than new rides. I do question the long term sustainability of this strategy, but I think it’s what’s needed at the moment.
Towers4ever
TS Member
Sometimes with Towers we all want bigger, faster, longer when what would be good is a year or two of bringing the infrastructure back up to scratch. Toilets. Monorail. Sky Ride operating. Ride effects working.
All that fencing will need to be updated to the composite stuff Chessington have got.
Perhaps the lack of activity ride-wise points to bigger, more ambitious plans ahead.
Chessington didn't exactly tidy up Wild Asia or Mexicana for years other than the minimum paint job yet new fencing and flooring everywhere else so perhaps something could be read into that at Towers?
Chessington seem to cycle through lands updating (dreaded IP in most cases) them on rotation so assuming FV gets 'completed' with Toxicator then they'll refresh Dark Forest next?
All that fencing will need to be updated to the composite stuff Chessington have got.
Perhaps the lack of activity ride-wise points to bigger, more ambitious plans ahead.
Chessington didn't exactly tidy up Wild Asia or Mexicana for years other than the minimum paint job yet new fencing and flooring everywhere else so perhaps something could be read into that at Towers?
Chessington seem to cycle through lands updating (dreaded IP in most cases) them on rotation so assuming FV gets 'completed' with Toxicator then they'll refresh Dark Forest next?