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Closure Culture: Were we too eager to see the Retro Squad go?

Tim

Tim

TS Member
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Thought I'd start this topic ahead of the new season, as I'm sure it's a discussion that's going to come up.

It seems to be a common trend in enthusiast communities to want to see anything removed that isn't up to the standard expected of the park. Sometimes even things that are still beloved by many, or serve a functional purpose. Which often makes me wonder, why so eager to see a ride close? Especially in the UK, where a lot of our parks already lack filler rides. Surely anything that helps spread the crowds is a good thing?

This brings me to the Retro Squad. I get it, they were temporary fairground rides that diminished the Theme Park feel. But that was the point, the park was at a stage that it needed these rides to fix the multiple dead spots left by removed attractions, and the park needed the extra capacity brought in.
Yet the main argument for their removal wasn't that the lineup had been fixed, It hasn't. The only notable returning ride since they were introduced is Nemesis Sub-Terra. No, the reasoning was because they'd 'outstayed their welcome'. And I can't help but feel that this continues feedback from so many people is why the park removed them.

Yet, I'm sure that as the 2024 season starts we'll see the phrase 'outstayed their welcome' become 'why remove them without a replacement'. Which leads me to my point, would it really have been that bad to keep them for another year, giving the new management actual time to replace them? We know they have a plan for the Funk 'N' Fly site, but even then I don't forsee construction starting there until the end of the summer season. And what happens if Nemesis's reopening actually does respark the publics interest in the park again back to pre-2015 levels? I myself havn't been back to the Towers since then, but after the improvements last year and this I'm more excited than ever to head back there again! Yet their capacity hasn't been fixed.

But what do you all think? Were we too eager to see them go? Or am I wrong and there are attractions out their (not just at Alton Towers) that you can make a good argument for why they actually need to go!
 
For me, the Retrosquad were ghastly. I hated them to a point. They ruined the immersion ... no-one needs to hear "eye of the tiger" blaring out whilst q'ing for Oblivion at full volume.

For me, they would have been better in their own area, away from the themed lands, to be honest. It's a shame we've lost them for capacity reasons. Yes, I know they're saying Hex & Nemesis are back to handle the crowds, but that just means we're still net-down on rides & capacity based on how it was in 2022.
 
Losing the two in X Sector means that the top half of the park is a bit of a concern. Dark Forest, World of Walliams and X Sector are without doubt the weakest areas of the park in my opinion. Personally I never rode the Retrosquad, they never looked particularly busy and hence I won’t miss them but that’s just me.

Will them going have an impact on:
- Ticket sales? I’d say no
- Customer experience? Possibly
- Queue times? Possibly

In summary, some people will miss them more than others, but for Towers as a business I don’t think their decision will have a negative impact on them and apart from enthusiasts I bet they’ll barely be an afterthought.
 
Be interesting to see, with the flat coming to FV, how long and neglected DF/XS remain theme wise. Not sure towers have the resources to turn around multiple areas at one time
 
Alphe86 said:
Be interesting to see, with the flat coming to FV, how long and neglected DF/XS remain theme wise. Not sure towers have the resources to turn around multiple areas at one time
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Turning around multiple areas is unlikely. At best they could add a few flat's in different areas, which are themed in themselves but the areas would be a later project.

Realistically to bring Alton back to where it should be would be a 5 year project with major investment each year, each restoring and adding to an area in the park.
When you consider that this year Forbidden Valley got the attention, but only the area around Nemesis.
 
I didn't mind them as a temporary way to increase capacity, I only rode two of them:

Roller Disco - on far too tame a cycle
Funk n Fly - world's most painful restraint, second only to Submission.

I think they would have stood out less, and been more welcomed by some, if they played some area music (e.g. general X sector/FV/DF theme) rather than the funfair type music.
 
They should’ve left the park once they had planned permanent replacements. Whilst we may have project ocean on the way, what about the 2 spaces in X sector. Ultimately we’ve been left with less rides and now there’s barely any flats at the park
 
I think it's both. With replacing all of them in one go with permanant flats being an impossible dream, it maybe would have been good to just drop the loud music and the branding and just have them exist quietly for another year or two as just another ride and phase them out one by one. Maybe spend a tiny bit of money giving them area appropriate renames and signage.
 
Martin said:
I think it's both. With replacing all of them in one go with permanant flats being an impossible dream, it maybe would have been good to just drop the loud music and the branding and just have them exist quietly for another year or two as just another ride and phase them out one by one. Maybe spend a tiny bit of money giving them area appropriate renames and signage.
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I mean they could’ve bought Spinjam, themed it to fit the area and no one would bat an eye. It’s actually a very good flat
 
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There's a few reasons why I think they've gone now rather than later. Firstly, we've got to remember these ride types were initially brought in when the travelling circuit was on its knees. Covid meant that the cost of bringing these in were likely much cheaper than they would normally be. Now we're back to normal, there's much more demand for these rides elsewhere and there's likely more money to be made elsewhere. I would assume Towers see the cost vs the benefit it brings to not be worth it, hence their removal.

Secondly, the rides were clearly suffering from frequent downtime due to the the amount they were being run. With the rides being run externally there wasn't a lot Towers could do to be able to effect the management of that downtime or even much of the ride's operations throughout the day. Perhaps keeping them around was just bringing more complaints than benefits, particularly on those busy days?

While I'm sure there's an element of them soaking up crowds, I think their contribution to spreading crowds out now that we're back to normal guest numbers post Covid is negligible owing to their low capacity.

Finally, the impression that these rides gave to guests was not is not where the park want to be in future. The longer they stay, the more guests see the rides and the more that level of effort is seen as "the norm" at the park. As regular visitors we perhaps understand and appreciate them being there, but to occasional visitors that might not be the case.

Obviously Towers is nowhere near where they need to be at the moment, but I would guess they were faced with a choice of keeping them around and devaluing the brand, or just ripping the plaster off, getting rid and working as hard as possible to get some decent permanent flats in over the medium term. On balance, it's probably just about the right decision to be making, providing the plans are in place for replacements over the coming couple of years.
 
I wonder if the cash saved on the Retrosquad has gone someway to fund the increased clean up of the park that appears to be taking place this year and/or the increased level of entertainment that has been hinted at for 2024.
 
Tim said:
Thought I'd start this topic ahead of the new season, as I'm sure it's a discussion that's going to come up.

It seems to be a common trend in enthusiast communities to want to see anything removed that isn't up to the standard expected of the park. Sometimes even things that are still beloved by many, or serve a functional purpose. Which often makes me wonder, why so eager to see a ride close? Especially in the UK, where a lot of our parks already lack filler rides. Surely anything that helps spread the crowds is a good thing?

This brings me to the Retro Squad. I get it, they were temporary fairground rides that diminished the Theme Park feel. But that was the point, the park was at a stage that it needed these rides to fix the multiple dead spots left by removed attractions, and the park needed the extra capacity brought in.
Yet the main argument for their removal wasn't that the lineup had been fixed, It hasn't. The only notable returning ride since they were introduced is Nemesis Sub-Terra. No, the reasoning was because they'd 'outstayed their welcome'. And I can't help but feel that this continues feedback from so many people is why the park removed them.

Yet, I'm sure that as the 2024 season starts we'll see the phrase 'outstayed their welcome' become 'why remove them without a replacement'. Which leads me to my point, would it really have been that bad to keep them for another year, giving the new management actual time to replace them? We know they have a plan for the Funk 'N' Fly site, but even then I don't forsee construction starting there until the end of the summer season. And what happens if Nemesis's reopening actually does respark the publics interest in the park again back to pre-2015 levels? I myself havn't been back to the Towers since then, but after the improvements last year and this I'm more excited than ever to head back there again! Yet their capacity hasn't been fixed.

But what do you all think? Were we too eager to see them go? Or am I wrong and there are attractions out their (not just at Alton Towers) that you can make a good argument for why they actually need to go!
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It was ultimately a lynch mob started by [influencers], who would rather a good few hundred capacity was taken out of the park and nothing replace it rather than put up with reasonable filler rides.

Self edit: Inappropriate terms removed.
 
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We don't need to be calling individuals out just because of some sort of weird vendetta people have against influencers/Youtubers/whatever - it's a cheap shot that frankly just isn't needed or even relevant to what's being discussed. The fact is there was a large percentage of people who wanted rid here on the forums and elsewhere on social media/Facebook groups too.

Ultimately, the decision will have come down to the practicalities of keeping them and will have been backed up with whatever research marketing carried out to justify the reasoning to keep or get rid of them. We're not privy to that research and feedback, but to suggest they'd action something purely on the feedback of influencers when they form such a small part of their guest numbers is crazy.

@AT86 I think hit the nail on the head. It's a chance to reallocate funds elsewhere to improve the theme park experience elsewhere - be that ents, tidying up the place or just generally having more staff around. They can then take the time to source additional attractions in the coming years.
 
Craig said:
We don't need to be calling individuals out just because of some sort of weird vendetta people have against influencers/Youtubers/whatever - it's a cheap shot that frankly just isn't needed or even relevant to what's being discussed
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In fairness Sanbrooke mentioned in multiple vlogs how the retro squad were basically rubbish and need to go asap. Think that was probably a reason why towers wanted the rides gone because they don’t want a popular influencer to bash the rides to thousands of viewers in every towers vlog
 
Ethan said:
In fairness Sanbrooke mentioned in multiple vlogs how the retro squad were basically rubbish and need to go asap. Think that was probably a reason why towers wanted the rides gone because they don’t want a popular influencer to bash the rides to thousands of viewers in every towers vlog
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I'm not denying that there's an effect that they have, but to try and label it as some sort of "lynch mob" purely by influencers comes across as petty - especially when they are ultimately echoing the same views loads of people have expressed elsewhere. We've pretty much all been critical of Retrosquad rides here on TowersStreet ever since they were introduced and comments on Alton's own Facebook on posts related to the rides often featured negative sentiment. Facebook groups about Towers have been critical, as have Twitter users. I have no doubt that guest feedback surveys by the park will have been critical too, be that through a poor ride experience, long queues or prolonged downtime.

That's not a "lynch mob" by so called "painfluencers", that's a large percentage of guests who attend the park not being a fan of those rides. As big of a channel that TPWW is, my point is that there are multiple reasons for making changes to the ride lineup - and they will be based on solid wider feedback and business reasoning, not just individual channels, no matter how large they are.

But anyway, to avoid this turning into some sort of YouTuber debate - to round this off and put my moderator hat on for a sec, just a polite reminder of what we ask on TowersStreet:

Respect for the wider community​

Just like our own members, we think other communities out there and their members should be treated how you’d like to be treated by them in return – courteously and respectfully. After all, we all share the same passion of loving theme parks and rides, we just all have a different way of showing it.

And that’s why we ask you to remain respectful and courteous towards other communities whilst on our forums, across our social media, or even on meet ups. Of course we know there will be discussion and perhaps even praise or criticism for others thoughts, ideas and ways – but we ask you to remain respectful and rational, otherwise you may see your posting rights affected again… and we really dislike doing that too, as it happens.

Just remember – treat people how you’d like to be treated, and you (hopefully!) shouldn’t go wrong!
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Theme Park Influencers are for the most part only watched by other enthusiasts or at least people with more of an interest than the average guest, most people who visit Towers don’t know who Shawn Sandbrooke is, his opinion doesn’t hold that much weight.

The Retro Squad were out of place, woefully operated attractions that cheapened the image of the park. For all Towers‘ faults, most people going in would expect a higher quality experience than your average fun fair, especially for the price they pay. While normal people might not be as anal about poor theming as us, they do notice it, especially when you compare to recent additions like Wicker Man and Curse. People rightfully expect better.
 
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