Conflicts

[ChristmasPud]

Recently in the forums there has been a pretty unprecedented level of conflict. Ive been a fan for a long time and never seen anything like it. The Nemesis and Duel topics especially. Also Admins have had to step in frequently to stop conversations going round in circles the same points being made endlessly as if it's Groundhog Day.

However an equal problem I've experienced is also endless sarcastic quips and retorts at such posts, which may be popular but I'd argue add even less to discussion.

I'm not thinking of individuals and Ive also previously retorted with the odd quip. But most these retorts are increasingly negative from seasoned posters.
I don't think either side creates a positive environment. So I wanted make this topic if it might help turn things around constructively.

Bearing in mind also, a lot of the Groundhog Day posts causing this reaction are from very young (naive) posters.
Yes it's frustrating but with adults shouting down and mocking teenagers it's just getting sad.

I also notice it's mainly when ride themes /dark rides get discussed, basically anything outside typical coaster topics, throughputs etc. There's no such nastiness then. Many fans would also find the hardcore nerdy subjects deathly boring but neither desevers to be shut down.

Whether we like it, don't like it or don't care either way, Alton Towers is clearly going through a big period of change to it's classic rides. Of course differing views are expected. Neither is less valid than the other.

I think people should give others more benefit of the doubt. If strongly disagreeing with someone, at least take the time to understand their point carefully first and be constructive. Personally if something is being discussed I don't care about, I dont feel the need to respond.

I don't really see the need for people to get so wound up. This is about theme parks and fun after all!
It would be a shame to lose Towers Street as one the last level headed places for discussion in the social media era.

 

[rob666]

I take the opposite view, I remember lots of extremely negative posting years ago between groups from different sites, constantly arguing which park or ride was "best".
Rudeness and raging flame wars were commonplace.
It was pretty constant in some topics, negative, and generated far more heat than light.
A great deal of recent posting in some topics has been trite thoosie juice, and deserves pointing out as such...other random posts being quoted as factual, when they are merely opinions, all cause discussion and debate, but very rarely does it result in heated conflict.
The site has improved over time, is very well moderated, and has calmed as the "competitive" posting has eased.
I have seen lots of fair and open debate, which rarely, if ever, results in petty insults.
Towers Street has lost nothing in recent years, apart from a few regular contributors who sadly had enough and moved away.
People get wound up because they love their hobby, and enjoy a debate on opinions, either shared or opposed.
The real world isn't all sugar and spice, but there is no massive conflict situation affecting the site, quite the opposite compared to times past on here.

 

[RicketyCricket]

I agree with your overall message. The youthful enthusiasm is something that should be encouraged, not shouted down.

However if posters choose to constantly ignore requests to stop spamming the same opnion over and over again; then people are going to get impatient and call it out.

From what I've seen it's mostly been lighthearted mickey taking as opposed to aggressive responses. I think the balance is fair.

 

[Slugjc]

Social media is a great way to express ones opinion and have a reasonable debate with millions of people around the world, who you will never meet but will connect other fair debate.

What it actually did was turn every discussion topic into a football terrace style slanging match. My opinion is more valued than yours because it's me who had that opinion. For I am also armed with sarcasm, because that's the only form of defence I have.

Just need to police your self. If something's beginning to get you in a topic, walkaway. What I be had to do. This forum is no way near as bad as others. I heard a similar thing being said on the chain dogs podcast. Like what you like. Hate what you hate. Don't get to offended when someone likes/hated.

 

[evilcod]

Yeah well, want a fight about it?

Opening day, midday, outside Hex. Be there!

No weapons but Aramark buns may be used as armour

 

[Zeock]

Bearing in mind also, a lot of the Groundhog Day posts causing this reaction are from very young (naive) posters.
Yes it's frustrating but with adults shouting down and mocking teenagers it's just getting sad.

I am one of these 'very young' posters. If I say anything that is repeated, I would not mean to do it. If I ever post a 'Groundhog Day' post, the best thing to do is to report the post and the post will be deleted.

 

[pluk]

What seems to have changed here, and I don't know why, is that so many posters want to proclaim their certainty about things which noone can be certain of. There has always been some jumping to conclusions, and looking at things and trying to work out what might be happening can be a fun part of forums, but not like the nonsense we've seen in enterprise, Nemesis and tcaam recently. To look at things with such a closed mind makes for teadious and repetitive forums.

I am one of these 'very young' posters. If I say anything that is repeated, I would not mean to do it. If I ever post a 'Groundhog Day' post, the best thing to do is to report the post and the post will be deleted.

No, the best thing to do would be for people not to make repetitive posts. People should be able to moderate themselves.

 

[rob666]

Yeah well, want a fight about it?

Opening day, midday, outside Hex. Be there!

No weapons but Aramark buns may be used as armour

No weapons?
I always have a brolly hidden in a bush somewhere at the Towers...
Just wish I could remember which one!

 

[Zeock]

No, the best thing to do would be for people not to make repetitive posts. People should be able to moderate themselves.

Of course that's what I should do. However, what I was saying was that the best way to respond to these posts would be to simply report them.

 

[Alastair]

In what must be the greatest instance of irony since the inception of the term, I've just had to remove a couple of conflict-ridden posts. The first post is so considered I almost feel as if this topic could be locked and that be left at that, but I'll leave it open with the expectation that...people are able to refrain from arguing about arguing!

 

[Benzin]

What seems to have changed here, and I don't know why, is that so many posters want to proclaim their certainty about things which noone can be certain of.

I think this is the key thing across the world these days. And quite a few examples of people proclaiming either rumour or opinion as fact.

Then if you disagree there's little to no room for discussion as many either don't care for discourse or are so set in their view that changing is out of the question.

Just have to look out in the wider world to see these situations are everywhere. Granted no one is really comparing black Nemesis track to say; playing the new Hogwarts game is akin to supporting transphobia. But there is a lot of hyperbole and reactions proclaiming it to be a terrible decision, will ruin their experience of it and how dare you question my viewpoint about this.

But as soon as one person gets their back up about something everyone else does. And so the cycle continues. I've been guilty of such situations but at the same time I feel at times people have become far more judgmental in their views and over-defensive when the opposing view is given to them.

 

[MattyH]

The problem is as mentioned there has been a lot of breaking of the member expectations within the aforementioned topics, especially posting videos with clickbait titles or just videos with no explanation.

When you're trying to find new information or try to discuss development it does feel like groundhog day.

I will say though that even 10 years ago when I joined the forum there were often in jokes and sarcastic posts, so there's nothing particularly new about it.

I guess the main issue that's made this closed season worse is that everybody was about and travelling to new places after covid and at the moment a lot of people are cooped up along with the depressing news, cost of living crisis etc and nowhere to go and escape for a day or so.

We're very accepting, think we used to take the mickey out of Matt.N for his positivity but we welcomed it similarly as it made a difference.

We've had discussions about bullying here before and I think it's crucial that the team monitor conversations and ensure that posts aren't going too far and if members are made to feel uncomfortable that they speak to the team and allow them to deal with it.

 

[rob666]

In what must be the greatest instance of irony since the inception of the term, I've just had to remove a couple of conflict-ridden posts. The first post is so considered I almost feel as if this topic could be locked and that be left at that, but I'll leave it open with the expectation that...people are able to refrain from arguing about arguing!

Oh bloody hell.
A good topic, following it with interest, then I turn my back to deal with the real world for an hour and I've missed all the mischief.
Could I have a little peep in the edit bin?
Thinking back to some of the old site wars and over moderation on other sites...
"Don't mention the ice show, or we will have your kneecaps."

 

[Dave]

I have been reticent to post in this topic as I have made no secret that I have felt the OP stoked some conflict in a number of previous posts in other topics (and they feel the same about me), that said I have no particular objection to the sentiment.

The one downside of forums versus social media is often forums give very little indication about the age of the poster (as forums are not really about the individual but rather the post themselves), in the live environment. So you can only really respond to what is presented on the page which unfortunately recently has been repetitive, and not driving topics forward. Sometimes over time you pick up certain nuances in various posters methods and maybe some age/ neurodivergent traits and compensate but that comes with that person posting over time.

Personally I think the forum has the right amount of moderation.

 

[ChristmasPud]

This forum is definitely better moderated than others for sure. To clarify I don't think it's moderation that's the problem.

Rather than piling on, surely better to calmly disagree and explain. Or if it really is just "nonsense" then easy to ignore.

There has always been some jumping to conclusions, and looking at things and trying to work out what might be happening can be a fun part of forums, but not like the nonsense we've seen in enterprise, Nemesis and tcaam recently. To look at things with such a closed mind makes for teadious and repetitive forums.

While this has been frustrating, I think the counter reaction has also gotten repetitive and often bitter.

This division has also led both sides jumping to conclusions sometimes. My personal experience, usually I sit on the fence or am just skeptical about certain possibilities being discussed. I try to be clear about ifs and maybes and I give my reasoning. But sometimes that gets taken for others to project something I never said and shut down the discussion, often pretty negatively.

The amount of times people have said "Get a life" alone recently. I've often been light hearted about it, but it really doesnt make for much good discussion.

I don't think this is the fault of any individuals but more the way online talk amplifies reactions and people misread each others tone?

The one downside of forums versus social media is often forums give very little indication about the age of the poster (as forums are not really about the individual but rather the post themselves), in the live environment. So you can only really respond to what is presented on the page which unfortunately recently has been repetitive, and not driving topics forward. Sometimes over time you pick up certain nuances in various posters methods and maybe some age/ neurodivergent traits and compensate but that comes with that person posting over time.

This is true, although I would personally grant everyone with the same benefit of the doubt. For example, I reached out to you when I realised there must have been something misinterpreted, and I would certainly be open to anyone doing the same for me.

We have nothing to judge each other for on this forum after all, and it's not really in the spirit of discussing theme parks.

 

[Craig]

Oof this is a fun one ain't it! I think a lot of it is closed season frustration, that doesn't help things either - terming it as "unprecedented conflict" seems a little overblown to say the least from my personal view. But the forum has always been sarcastic and a little bit mickey taking since back when we were on the TTF team - we've never liked to take ourselves too seriously. I like to think that as a team we do a good job of stepping in when we feel it's getting a bit too OTT.

The issue is ultimately people's personal preferences as to how they want to discuss things. For example, some people want to talk about new additions/changes in more general terms, whereas others want go into really specific intricate discussion into what many others view to be minor things. With the addition of the likes of drone coverage, and updates from the likes of the track plant in Clermont, we're in an unprecedented time these days where we're able to follow progress of new additions and changes in almost real time. Years ago we'd normally have a lull through closed season where people's "wish lists" for what they'd like to see could be discussed without proof that something different is happening - that's not the case these days. For example, with the Nemesis track - some wanted to believe and post that their own version of something is going to happen (Nemesis track colour being a prime example) and repeat ad nauseam, despite responses being made with evidence (finish of the track, coding on the labels etc) as to why the opposite is true. As a result, I think there's often some frustration from people who are responding with that factual evidence to counter what those people have posted when the same opinion is posted again, without any further evidence in response other than that same opinion. At the end of the day, it's impossible to please both sides, you've just got to try and strike a balance between the two extremes.

As for responses to posts with things such as "get a life", again it's intended to be a joke - which as most will be aware hark back to TT@10 and the comments made by JW which were equally made in jest. It's also people's attempt at moving things on and their own way of pointing out that the discussion is getting a bit tiresome and repetitive for the majority. Heck I've done it myself when things turn into that merry-go-round discussion between a few people that'll ultimately go nowhere. As mentioned already, we'll try and move things on ourselves when this gets to the point of it being a bit of a pile on - but to start removing every single post like that and asking people to flat out not to do so does somewhat sterilise the discussion and takes away the personalities of both the forum and of members themselves.

I do like to think that members here have read the forum for a while and understand that there's no malice intended in the vast majority of humorous responses that are made. However, as always if anyone feels they are being victimised, they hit the report button on the offended post(s) so that the team can take a look and address is where necessary. I'm also happy for anyone to drop me a message me privately if they'd like to discuss any issues too.

 

[Thameslink Rail]

I must admit I'm struggling to keep up with some of the faster flowing discussions (particularly Alton Manor and Nemesis), every time I check them there's a couple more pages to get through. I love Craig's Nemesis summary thread, it has helped me stay up to date with anything important that has happened on that front.

 

[ChristmasPud]

Well Im glad I raised the discussion although I seem to be in the minority. It hasn't strayed into anything reportable in my book, but I still believe worth trying keep things more positive.

My own dry humour often gets misinterpreted. But I think the discussion others raise (and seemingly an argument that already needed be deleted) shows it's more than just humour being misinterpreted lately.

With some of the responses in those threads, Id go somewhere else if people were talking to each other like that in person. The sarcasm has often got bitter over pretty moderate theme park discussion.

 

[Craig]

I must admit I'm struggling to keep up with some of the faster flowing discussions (particularly Alton Manor and Nemesis), every time I check them there's a couple more pages to get through. I love Craig's Nemesis summary thread, it has helped me stay up to date with anything important that has happened on that front.

Yup that's one thing I wanted to try to strike that balance (thanks for the reminder to update it, slacking this last couple of weeks!).

Glad people like things like that though, I'll look to do it for SW9/Horizon as we get closer to actual construction commencing.

 

[Skyscraper]

Yup that's one thing I wanted to try to strike that balance (thanks for the reminder to update it, slacking this last couple of weeks!).

Glad people like things like that though, I'll look to do it for SW9/Horizon as we get closer to actual construction commencing.

Yeah it's a great idea, allows people to access the facts without having to trawl through the entire thread.