Coronavirus

[tayspru]

The simple fact is, international travel isn’t starting until the 17th May at the very earliest , with many airlines not planning to restart leisure travel until June. It is going to be a very small period between leisure travel starting and everyone having been offered the chance for the vaccine - a couple of months of disparity (where travel would be limited anyway)

Its looking increasingly unlikely a vaccine passport would be fully implemented until everyone has been offered their chance for their jab, and it is very likely that it will be a system in combination with accommodations for those physically unable to receive the vaccine .

So yes , it will end up being of disadvantage to those who *choose* not to have the vaccine , but international travel is also a privilege and there’s very little reason not to take a vaccine if you are able to. I’ll be sure to get a tiny violin ready if anti vaxxers are unable to go on holiday in the wake of a pandemic

 

[BigT]

I’ve no problem with someone that has been offered the vaccine and decides not to take it been disadvantaged, that’s their choice.
However I do have a huge problem with vaccinated people being able to do things that people that haven’t yet been offered the vaccine are not able to do, that’s simply not fair.

 

[Dave]

I’ve no problem with someone that has been offered the vaccine and decides not to take it been disadvantaged, that’s their choice.
However I do have a huge problem with vaccinated people being able to do things that people that haven’t yet been offered the vaccine are not able to do, that’s simply not fair.

On this point I agree fully!

 

[Craig]

I’ve no problem with someone that has been offered the vaccine and decides not to take it been disadvantaged, that’s their choice.
However I do have a huge problem with vaccinated people being able to do things that people that haven’t yet been offered the vaccine are not able to do, that’s simply not fair.

There's rare occasions we agree, but this is 100% one of them! As I've said before, if there happens to be further lockdowns further down the line you'll find them a very hard sell to the less vulnerable when you've gone from "all in this together, protect the vulnerable/the NHS" to "you're over 50 get yourself away" then back to blanket restrictions again.

 

[tayspru]

It’s already been leaked that trials of the vaccine passport will begin in the next few weeks , the reason being to allow the systems to be continuously tweaked, with a view to properly launching the so called “passport” when everyone has been offered the vaccine . So vaccinated people being able to do things that people that haven’t yet been offered the vaccine cannot isn’t really going to be an issue .

 

[Matt N]

Apparently the passport could begin being rolled out as early as June... interesting. Could the vaccine rollout have sped up or something, as I thought the target for all adults being offered a first dose was 31st July?

Maybe they’re planning an alternative for people who haven’t yet been vaccinated, such as lateral flow tests or antibody tests to prove you’re immune? There’s said to have been a new 20-second test that takes swabs of the cheeks that’s currently being trialled in Heathrow, and these are more effective than the current lateral flow tests.

 

[Craig]

It's already been reported that there will be an option to show a negative test or have 'natural immunity' through having covid. Much like the EU system basically.

However, to me that does not resolve the issue. How can the tests be easily accessed? Even if it was a lateral flow test they would have to be supervised by someone, otherwise people could just bodge the negative result. When those who are vaccinated can get their 'immunity' for free, why should others who have not had the opportunity to get their vaccine have to potentially fork out money for multiple tests? I'm glad pubs seem to have been excluded from this according to that article, but I still have real concerns that some places will start asking to see this certification as a condition of entry regardless, essentially creating that two tier system I'm so concerned about.

I also don't think the vaccine roll out has accelerated just because June has been mentioned somewhere. There's lots of dates floating about, but considering test events aren't until May, it's highly unlikely something would be ready for June anyway. In any case you still need a few weeks for a vaccine to be effective, and of course in the case of the currently approved two dose vaccines the 4-12 weeks after your first too.

My view remains that anything like this should only be available once everyone has had the opportunity for a vaccine, and there is a way for those who are properly medically exempt from getting the vaccine to be easily tested without cost. Even then it should only be for a very strictly limited period of time.

 

[BigT]

Completely agree, my fear is I don’t trust this government, 50% of adults have now been vaccinated and most of them vote Tory.
A populist like Boris will see this as a great time to unlock for his key vote and screw the rest.
Also the other issue is what restrictions will these countries on the green list place on us? Malta have already said you will need to be fully vaccinated to enter and other countries could follow thus installing a two tier system by the back door and continuing the already started scams to jump the queue for vaccines.
My view it would just be more simple to announce this tier system he’s going to announce but also add the caveat nobody goes anywhere until everyone has been at least offered both vaccines, that way we don’t have this scramble to jump the queue.

 

[tayspru]

It’s not really a “back door” enforcement . If another country requires proof of vaccination , our government can’t change that. It really does make sense for our government to have a system in place that will help us to access countries that demand a proof of vaccine .

It seems some are circling back round to if I can’t travel nobody can , which doesn’t help anyone . With regards to testing , for the short few months while you haven’t been offered a vaccine , either suck it up and pay for a test or have a tiny bit more patience as we release from a worldwide pandemic.

 

[Dave]

It’s not really a “back door” enforcement . If another country requires proof of vaccination , our government can’t change that. It really does make sense for our government to have a system in place that will help us to access countries that demand a proof of vaccine .

It seems some are circling back round to if I can’t travel nobody can , which doesn’t help anyone . With regards to testing , for the short few months while you haven’t been offered a vaccine , either suck it up and pay for a test or have a tiny bit more patience as we release from a worldwide pandemic.

You are effectively saying to young folk “suck it up”, which isn’t going to go down well really. They could have said “old people suck it up and stay at home as this virus is your problem not ours” but they didn’t.

From my perspective until everyone has been offered a vaccine the passports for domestic activity are not ethical (you can’t do much about other countries policies). Once everyone has had the opportunity then I’m ok with them so long as those who can’t be vaccinated are exempt, if you are moronic enough to choose not to have the vaccine then I have no problem adding restrictions to their activity.

 

[Craig]

It seems some are circling back round to if I can’t travel nobody can , which doesn’t help anyone . With regards to testing , for the short few months while you haven’t been offered a vaccine , either suck it up and pay for a test or have a tiny bit more patience as we release from a worldwide pandemic.

Except it does help everyone. Picking and choosing who is able to do something according the vaccination, and penalising those who haven't with expensive testing will affect how people abide by blanket restrictions/lockdowns should they be required in future. Why should others like the young sacrifice further freedoms for others when they're likely to be ok anyway?

I'm generally a little more relaxed than BigT on the international travel front. Allow it with sufficient, affordable testing and only allow travel to countries with lower prevalence and no variants which aren't present here. Having to pay for testing for doing things domestically though? Not a chance.

It was only a few weeks ago some were saying there'd be no chance domestic restrictions would come into play, and people were over-reacting. Yet here we are, with the possibility of that becoming reality. Slippery slope!

 

[BigT]

I’m not relaxed about overseas holidays for the simple reason I and many other millions have basically given up a year of our lives to protect the elderly and vulnerable, we were all in it together as we were led to believe but as soon as the opportunity has arrived suddenly we are not all in it together and see you later...
It’s not fair and it’s not right, it’s a slippery slope as you say Craig.

 

[Alsty]

Surely if any premises domestically insist on a vaccine certificate before everybody has had the opportunity, then they will be guilty of offences under the Equality Act due to indirect discrimination? The same for people who're medically unable to take the vaccine.

Even if those who aren't vaccinated can have a test instead, if they are being asked to pay for the test then I think a breach is still occurring (young paying vs older not paying).

The whole thing sounds like a complete minefield. However I guess at this stage it's just trials, so maybe they're just seeing if they're effective as a concept with a view to rolling out in the autumn when everybody has been done and they've ironed out the legal and ethical issues.

 

[Matt.GC]

I wouldn't be relaxed about a vaccine passport full stop. I understand the old and the medically vulnerable have suffered the most in terms of mortality, but the young and able bodied are the ones who have lost jobs, businesses and personal freedom's. The boomers and their soon to be retired children will carry on receiving gold plated over 65 state benefits whilst the younger foot the bill for the terrible public finances.

I'm also not an anti vax kind of guy, but you also have the civil liberties side of things. Why should someone be forced to have a vaccine that they don't want, need and think the government should not have wasted money buying (some for ethical reasons when far poorer countries have vulnerable people who need it more) or else they'll have freedom's that their parents and grandparents enjoyed taken away.

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[delta79]

However, to me that does not resolve the issue. How can the tests be easily accessed? Even if it was a lateral flow test they would have to be supervised by someone, otherwise people could just bodge the negative result. When those who are vaccinated can get their 'immunity' for free, why should others who have not had the opportunity to get their vaccine have to potentially fork out money for multiple tests?
.

It is hard to fake a negative at a LF testing centre. However home testing if done incorrectly it can give false negative result.

As for faking a negative with home testing it is so easy a child can do it.



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[Matt N]

I know this is a random question, but; out of interest, is it known whether any of the tourist attractions or public places hosting mass vaccination centres financially benefit in any way from hosting vaccination centres on their sites? So for example, are places like Ashton Gate Stadium in Bristol and the Black Country Living Museum being paid to host vaccination centres on their sites?

Or are they volunteering to host vaccination centres for free? Or is the government just telling them to host vaccination centres at their sites?

I know it sounds like a really random question, but I’d be intrigued to know if anyone knows the answer!

 

[delta79]

I know this is a random question, but; out of interest, is it known whether any of the tourist attractions or public places hosting mass vaccination centres financially benefit in any way from hosting vaccination centres on their sites? So for example, are places like Ashton Gate Stadium in Bristol and the Black Country Living Museum being paid to host vaccination centres on their sites?

Or are they volunteering to host vaccination centres for free? Or is the government just telling them to host vaccination centres at their sites?

I know it sounds like a really random question, but I’d be intrigued to know if anyone knows the answer!

The only people to know that are the management of the building and NHS team that deal with getting building to use.


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[Benzin]

Given that those who refuse to take vaccines tend to cause more damage (there's a reason that long gone diseases have slowly reared back up) I honestly think that vaccinations should be mandatory unless you are medically exempt.

People believing nonsense about them causing autism or "big pharma" (especially in the UK when most vaccines are free) is far more destructive an idea than forcing people to have a vaccine passport to visit places.

Sure it's your human right to disagree with something, but that doesn't forgo a freedom of consequences for your actions.

The test I took last year was free. As long as some of those were kept open (or we actually did some testing at airports for once during this whole pandemic), that could solve some issues.

Implementing a passport before everyone is offered though is wrong. And should only come about after that point. Plus consideration towards the first jab being acceptable rather than the full dosage.

 

[Matt N]

I know I’m probably over-worrying, and that the chances of this happening are slim to none, but; do we think that there’s a chance that Boris may delay the next stage of lockdown easing in today’s announcement?

I’m only asking because there seems to be some fear around a number of things from the press and scientists at the moment; there are concerns that the third wave being seen in Europe may spread here, the scientists are very concerned that the country’s R number may potentially have hit 1 (although case numbers are continuing to decrease, so that one confuses me, I’ll admit), and there are also concerns about mutations developing if restrictions are eased. Not to mention the concerns surrounding supply of vaccines. Do we think that that will be enough to make Boris slam the brakes on stage 2, or do we think that he’ll press ahead?

Personally, I think that he’ll press ahead, as the situation currently looks pretty promising here in Britain, but I was just airing the possibility, as a lot of scientists seem very hesitant to see further easing of restrictions. Some are even saying that we should be completely locked down until everybody has been vaccinated and the country is completely free of COVID.

 

[Dave]

Domestically the next phase on the 12th April is almost certain to go ahead and as it stands nothing in the data is likely to stop the May reopening either. June may be at slight risk if vaccine rollout doesn’t pick back up again but I think the government is very keen not to do that.

If anything slips back it will be foreign travel restrictions lifting.