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Coronavirus

Coronavirus - The Poll

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Unsure yet but what is interesting is Sweden which had a very lax response to Covid, has recently dropped all restrictions and where cases have dropped by 40%.

Maybe they achieved natural herd immunity whereas our vaccine immunity is starting to wear off now….

Generally though yes hospital rates are low. Have around 25 in with us at the moment, which given the rates would have been around 80 or so of it were not for the vaccines.
 
Lower vaccination rates will be a cultural thing. Our culture seems closer to America in terms of conspiracy theorists than other western European nations. I say western Europe as there are similar theories circulating in other European countries.

Herd immunity seems to only be a partially true theory. It appears true that vaccines and contracting the virus lessen the severity (although with mutations nothing is certain). However, it's very clear no one is immune. The public finances are a mess, the country can't cope with severe restrictions either. The government has thrown billions to keep the SS UK afloat, but now that we're back open again we also can't cope with the demand. Absence levels and the amount of vacancies (yeah, that's still a massive problem folks) are imposing restrictions on the way we live anyway, only difference is it's easier for the government to wash their hands with these issues which they appear to be doing. It seems the government has taken the approach that as long as deaths stay within a certain limit and hospitals don't fall over completely (they don't like to point out that they're still under immensely pressure) then if we see businesses, schools and hospitals struggling it's not their fault.

Opening up and easing restrictions to get things back to as normal as they can possibly be would have been a wise choice. But instead, we stayed under restrictions that were too strict for too long, then threw them all on the bonfire in one go. Foolish. Famine to Feast in one fell swoop. There's no wonder it's had a funnel effect.

We should be under no illusions, hospitals are severely stretched still (backlog as well as Covid), it's ravishing through schools, stuff isn't being made or imported at the levels to meet demand and things aren't being delivered to shops and business who also have their own struggles at the point of sale for the same reasons.

And that's all before we consider this "Super Cold" situation which is also biting down hard. Telling people to wear masks, socially distance, stay at home, work from home and isolate one day then telling everyone to go nuts the next is crazy, no balance whatever. It seems to only serve the government in getting a monkey off their shoulders.
 
AstroDan said:
UK case rate is highest in Europe. Most people jabbed although rates of vaccination are now higher in several other countries, including France. Why is this? Where is the "herd immunity"? Is there a problem or is having the highest in Europe of no concern given hospitals are coping.

Thoughts?
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Vaccination rates higher in other countries as they have been vaccinating kids for quite a lot longer where as we held off on that.

Infection rates higher as our youth, who returned to education largely with no ongoing restrictions, aren't vaccinated, as above.

Infection rates also higher as we removed restrictions significantly earlier and much more completely than other nations, the virus has had a lot mote time and opportunity to spread. Will other countries follow a similar trajectory as times goes on under more freedoms? Only time will tell, but many are still living with dignificant restrictions. A deliberate effort in the UK to have any further peak before winter flu kicks in.

Hospitals seem fine. The death rate for covid is now lower than normal flu. Not a helpful comparison in terms of how it kills you and treatments required, but a good indicator of why hospitals can and should cope with the current hospitalisation and fatality rate.
 
As long as we don't force the footballers to be vaccinated...we must protect their precious, special little lives...they should be above the rules because they get paid so much, and are so essential to the smooth running of the nation.
 
AstroDan said:
UK case rate is highest in Europe. Most people jabbed although rates of vaccination are now higher in several other countries, including France. Why is this? Where is the "herd immunity"? Is there a problem or is having the highest in Europe of no concern given hospitals are coping.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say cases matter all that much at this point. We are at a fairly good position coronavirus wise. We've got one of the top vaccination rates in the world although not as close to the top as we were. In fact I do wonder why we are doing boosters when we could be donating vaccines to poorer counties which will help us in the end. Hospitalisations are fairly low which to me sounds like a positive. Of course we must keep a close eye on the cases because if they go past a threshold where they are too high that it could start causing staffing problems like the pingdemic earlier in the year then something may need to be done. I suspect the government now want herd immunity which I'd say now that a lot of people are vaccinated isn't a bad decision.
 
Haven't worried about COVID for some time now. I know several people who are double jabbed and caught it, think it's just inevitable we'll all eventually get if you already haven't. Main frustration is one of those went into hospital for something else, tested negative before they went in, came out and were positive with symptoms so caught it in there. This happened to another relative of mine last year.

It doesn't really bother me if someone else is unvaccinated either, up to them and it's not like you can't get it and spread it if you're fully jabbed.

How much testing are other nations doing compared to the UK I do wonder?

Had to show proof of vaccination to get into some places in Germany recently - restaurants, museums and others. Some asked, some didn't. Felt like unnecessary faff and a bit pointless. Big open spaces at a museum already which was half outdoors and limiting numbers I had to show proof, but a crowded Metro train for 20 mins is fine? Doesn't really make sense to me.
 
Out of interest, have face masks been legally mandated on public transport again? I only ask because on both of my CrossCountry trains to and from uni today, the announcer said “you are required to wear a face mask onboard unless exempt”.

I always wore one anyway, as I’m still concerned about keeping others safe, but I thought it was interesting to hear, as I thought face masks on public transport were scrapped after 19th July.

Looking around on the train now, though, it seems I’m one of the few people (other than me, I’ve probably seen about 2 or 3 others with masks on this particular train) actually wearing a mask, so maybe this is still guidance.

Does anyone know?
 
It became advisory, but not compulsory, to wear a mask on public transport when the rules were kicked out some weeks ago.
Operators can still insist on masks within their terms and conditions, but I don't think any actually stop customers from using their transport if they are refusing one while not exempt.
The government still strongly advise the use of masks, but bus passangers going by my house...about one in ten are still using them.
 
AstroDan said:
Forgive me for resurrecting discussion; in education it's literally THE dominant thing in my job now, how I'd love to blissfully forget about it.

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Yes I imagine education is the most effected industry currently. As most if not all the kids haven't been vaccinated. Do you still have kids doing online learning @AstroDan as I imagine, particularly in primary, it's difficult to teach a class in person as well as any pupils (I think that's what they call them in primary rather than students?) who are online.
 
JAperson said:
Yes I imagine education is the most effected industry currently. As most if not all the kids haven't been vaccinated. Do you still have kids doing online learning @AstroDan as I imagine, particularly in primary, it's difficult to teach a class in person as well as any pupils (I think that's what they call them in primary rather than students?) who are online.
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Yes. There are children in isolation. Online and face to face teaching simultaneously is basically par for the course now. Saying that, it's eased. But other groups are now worse.

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AstroDan said:
Forgive me for resurrecting discussion; in education it's literally THE dominant thing in my job now, how I'd love to blissfully forget about it.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
There does seem to be this misconception that it's all gone away. I know it's not a great situation in schools and having a sister in law who is a nurse, it's simply not true that hospitals are back to normal either.

Plus the supply chain issues everywhere. Of course Covid isn't the culprit alone, but you can't immediately see supply chain issues where driver and distribution worker shortages are not helped by absence and vacancies caused by immediate opening up. It's bad in supply chains, VERY bad. Christmas should be very interesting
 
rob666 said:
The government still strongly advise the use of masks, but bus passangers going by my house...about one in ten are still using them.
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If it’s anything to go by, Rob, I had a glance round the carriage as I was getting off, and I think only 2 or 3 other people had face coverings on. And this was far from a quiet train.

Rightly or wrongly, I think face mask usage fell drastically when the rules were dropped in July. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that, though; it is a personal choice, after all! I still wear one on the train, as well as on the station platform and around campus at uni (the university recommends face coverings on campus), amongst other settings, but I am certainly in a minority that still does.
AstroDan said:
Forgive me for resurrecting discussion; in education it's literally THE dominant thing in my job now, how I'd love to blissfully forget about it.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I can imagine it certainly is a dominant issue in schools; when I was in sixth form last year, that was certainly the place where I was reminded about COVID most compared with the rest of society.

When COVID was really rife last winter, there was a period where 4 out of my 6 A Level teachers were self-isolating, for what it’s worth, and the pandemic really did have a profound impact on my A Levels, from my perspective.

With restrictions having all but gone in the remainder of society, as well as children being the only real vectors of full transmission left for the virus to spread unrestrained among (especially in primaries, where no children have been vaccinated yet), I can imagine that feeling is only exacerbated now. My heart does go out to you and all the other teachers @AstroDan; I hope it gets better before too long.

Out of interest, would you say that this period we’re in now is more or less disruptive in schools than last winter, to give me some idea? (Being in university, where practically everyone is vaccinated, I’m now more detached from mainstream education than I was last year)

My hat does go off to you and all the other teachers and education workers, though; I think you’re all doing so well, as I can’t imagine your jobs are easy in non-COVID times, let alone while a pandemic is rife! I can’t even begin to imagine how difficult online learning must be with large groups of younger children; from my experience on the other end last year, it seemed difficult enough with small groups of A Level students!

Out of interest, Dan, are you a primary teacher or a secondary teacher?
 
Sorry to double post, but a paper has been drafted about the UK’s COVID response by a cross-party group of MPs, and it led to some interesting conclusions: https://apple.news/AT5nGzxVzQf-MGfyinOAwhA

Some of the conclusions included:
  • The UK’s early lockdown delay was cited as “the worst public health failure ever”.
  • Herd immunity was cited as “the wrong policy”, and caused many more deaths than an early lockdown would have done. The adoption of this policy was cited as a “fatalistic mistake”.
  • Britain’s response was not rapid enough, and the same was said about much of the rest of Europe.
  • The vaccination program was hailed as one of Britain’s “biggest scientific successes ever”.
  • The UK’s pandemic strategy was based too narrowly on a flu pandemic, and the UK failed to learn the lessons from SARS, MERS and Ebola.
  • Stopping community testing so early on was also cited as a major mistake.
Here is the full paper, if you want a read: https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/7496/documents/78687/default/

What are your thoughts on this?
 
Matt N said:
Sorry to double post, but a paper has been drafted about the UK’s COVID response by a cross-party group of MPs, and it led to some interesting conclusions: https://apple.news/AT5nGzxVzQf-MGfyinOAwhA

Some of the conclusions included:
  • The UK’s early lockdown delay was cited as “the worst public health failure ever”.
  • Herd immunity was cited as “the wrong policy”, and caused many more deaths than an early lockdown would have done. The adoption of this policy was cited as a “fatalistic mistake”.
  • Britain’s response was not rapid enough, and the same was said about much of the rest of Europe.
  • The vaccination program was hailed as one of Britain’s “biggest scientific successes ever”.
  • The UK’s pandemic strategy was based too narrowly on a flu pandemic, and the UK failed to learn the lessons from SARS, MERS and Ebola.
  • Stopping community testing so early on was also cited as a major mistake.
Here is the full paper, if you want a read: https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/7496/documents/78687/default/

What are your thoughts on this?
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I think most of this we all knew. I don't think it'll make much different to the Johnson government as they have such a big majority.
 
The vaccination program, was handed over to MOD, NHS.

The MOD got the army to run a massive logistics system using the 3 service logistics arms. And the MOD are masters of fast and massive logistics.

The NHS are masters of vaccination programs. NHS England Knowing the standard vaccination system was too small, linked up with the largest first aid organisation in England to get volunteers trained up and working in vaccination centres.

When you look at the results of the vaccination program, the best thing the government did was handing it over to the specialists groups to sort.

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I had mine of Friday, was out of it on Saturday - muscle pain, shivers, dizzy, high temp... it all passed within 24 hours but as I've had each jab I've felt worse each time. :weary: All worth it though to protect those around me!
 
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