Crime and Punishment

[Sam]

The death penalty has been effectively banned in England since 1964, and will never be reintroduced. It's illegal under many different forms of international, UK and European law that we're signed up to, and public support has been dropping consistently ever since.

Our side won, and yours lost in 1964. Inhumanity lost I'm afraid.

 

[Fredward]

I hate this topic.

I believe in capital punishment... But it insults me and disgusts me the insults being thrown around... calling people inhuman for there beliefs.

It's fine disagreeing, but can you stop with the hate comments.



The annoying thing is the ignorance of people who just assume people who believe in the death penalty want other humans dead, they want to see people suffer, twisting the words to make them seem like some kind of inhumane monster.



That means: shut up Sam.

 

[Sam]

The annoying thing is the ignorance of people who just assume people who believe in the death penalty want other humans dead

Slightly mystified by that one, I must admit. Surely the definition of supporting the death penalty is wanting to see other humans dead, as a punishment? :-\

If you don't support the deaths of humans in any circumstances then you're not a death penalty supporter. ???

 

[Dave]

This is an interesting page on the lack of a deterrent the death penalty is to crime (though obviously from a slightly bias source). It also hardly punishes the criminal... they will be dead, any particular fears or issues they have are ended fairly quickly and it doesn't provide any justice... unless justice is meant to be about revenge?

 

[BigT]

The people who we elect to make decisions on our behalf consistently vote against the death penalty, and elections and votes have far more sway than opinion polls which poll between 1000 and 3000 people, less than 0.5% of the country.

You obviously have no idea about how the political system works in this country with a satatement like that.



Sam maybe we can part at least agreeing something, your right the death penalty will not be back in our lifetimes in the uk, but never is a long time!

 

[Fredward]

open your mind Sam, and think about it. It makes perfect sense.


for help: A parent punishes their child, do they want to? No.

do you love stereotypes?

Because you sure are chucking everyone who believes in the death penalty under the same demographic.

 

[Rupert]

The annoying thing is the ignorance of people who just assume people who believe in the death penalty want other humans dead.

But... you do want other humans dead? Based on your entirely subjective view of what is morally correct, which a good few of us believe is morally wrong. I certainly believe it's inhumane to institutionalise murder, and I hope you don't mind me saying so. I believe it's inhumane for a government to murder its own citizens, regardless of their crime. As has been said before in this topic; that's not a punishment - it's a bizarre, perverted form of revenge, in place only to achieve the misplaced satisfaction that because you have murdered somebody who murdered somebody else, you somehow have moral high ground. I genuinely cannot comprehend how that could be ok.

 

[Dave]

Does the parent kill the child? or badly maim them?

My second question would be... have you invented a machine to bring an innocent person back to life if they where wrongly found guilty and executed?

 

[Harv]

Guys, I love a heated debate as much as anyone and it's making very fascinating reading but tone down your insults. The topic'll end up locked (unavoidably, after much patience/tolerance from the team, I'm sure) like so many other great discussions we've had and then nobody can put their arguments across. Just refrain from being personal, please.

 

[Sam]

It's not personal and not unreasonable to call the death penalty inhuman/e, and the support for it inhuman/e. It's certainly not a locking offence.

Fredward, I don't think you're inhuman/e, but I think that particular view of yours is. In fact, it's quite a mainstream opinion that the death penalty is inhuman/e. It's perfectly legitimate in this debate, and is in widespread use across the non-far right media.

 

[BigT]

Does the parent kill the child? or badly maim them?

My second question would be... have you invented a machine to bring an innocent person back to life if they where wrongly found guilty and executed?

But surely DNA takes care of your second question Dave.

 

[Jonathan]

The people who we elect to make decisions on our behalf consistently vote against the death penalty, and elections and votes have far more sway than opinion polls which poll between 1000 and 3000 people, less than 0.5% of the country.

You obviously have no idea about how the political system works in this country with a satatement like that.

Seriously? You have got to be joking. Cariba is right in that whenever a vote on the death penalty has come before Parliament, the members - our elected representatives - have consistently voted against it. And quite often, opinion polls on the death penalty are conducted just days after murders have taken place, so obviously, the poll is going to be skewed in favour of the death penalty thanks to the knee-jerk reaction of the general public.

 

[Harv]

I wasn't actually referring to you Sam, it was more about other people tossing comments around, but naming is just bound to send sparks around.

 

[Fredward]

Essentially this is a pointless discussion in my eyes.

You will never see what I see, you won't be able to have the same opinion, or see why we have this opinion,

I have not heard from a single person who doesn't believe in the death penalty, describe why i think it's right in certain cases, and I doubt you will.

You have all decided it's evil, wrong, immoral, inhumane, monstrous, brutal... I disagree and don't like being referred to as sort.

Different people believe different opinions, and debates like this relies on ones perspective of human rights, humane beliefs, what human life is worth.

I bet not one of you would think twice about putting down a dog that has simply bitten a young child, and yet when it comes to human life somehow that's different?

I can see you argue those points, take it too literally ext. but that just goes to show differences of opinion.

 

[Cariba]

The people who we elect to make decisions on our behalf consistently vote against the death penalty, and elections and votes have far more sway than opinion polls which poll between 1000 and 3000 people, less than 0.5% of the country.

You obviously have no idea about how the political system works in this country with a satatement like that.



Sam maybe we can part at least agreeing something, your right the death penalty will not be back in our lifetimes in the uk, but never is a long time!

Oh yes, silly me! I forgot I was an idiot.

A MP is a representative of the people for an area, commonly known as a constituency. They make decisions regarding the country using the popular mandate given to them by the voters. In other words they do exactly what I wrote above. So before you make a satatement like that, read this.

 

[BigT]

The people who we elect to make decisions on our behalf consistently vote against the death penalty, and elections and votes have far more sway than opinion polls which poll between 1000 and 3000 people, less than 0.5% of the country.

You obviously have no idea about how the political system works in this country with a satatement like that.

Seriously? You have got to be joking. Cariba is right in that whenever a vote on the death penalty has come before Parliament, the members - our elected representatives - have consistently voted against it. And quite often, opinion polls on the death penalty are conducted just days after murders have taken place, so obviously, the poll is going to be skewed in favour of the death penalty thanks to the knee-jerk reaction of the general public.

So the government won't mind giving us a referendum on it then will they.

Seriously though the last vote on the subject had a three line whip against by all parties so it's hardly going to get voted for is it.

 

[Sam]

My second question would be... have you invented a machine to bring an innocent person back to life if they where wrongly found guilty and executed?

But surely DNA takes care of your second question Dave.

Oh yeah, I forgot that since DNA was discovered, every single murder conviction has been achieved with absolute 100% complete certainty and doubt has been eliminated from the judicial system. Oh wait, this is real life, not Minority Report.

 

[BigT]

Oh yeah, I forgot that since DNA was discovered, every single murder conviction has been achieved with absolute 100% complete certainty and doubt has been eliminated from the judicial system. Oh wait, this is real life, not Minority Report.

I agree not every case is 100% and it would be wrong to execute then, but some are 100%.

 

[Cariba]

And we vote the parties into Parliament in the first bloody place!

So the government won't mind giving us a referendum on it then will they.

Seriously though the last vote on the subject had a three line whip against by all parties so it's hardly going to get voted for is it.

Why do we need a referendum on it? Unless it was post-legislative it would be nothing more than a useless opinion poll. The parties we voted into the Commons all oppose the death penalty, therefore giving democratic backing to the opposition to the death penalty, which is what we should be debating anyway, not politics.

And even better, you stropped off the forum claiming people were treating you like an idiot, and then parade around in here accusing us all of being plebs who can't understand politics.

 

[Jonathan]

You can never be one hundred per cent sure that DNA evidence is accurate.