Reading the facts you've provided (very interesting and detailed they are too) it would suggest quite a lot of excavation work would need to be carried out to a similar scale to nemesis. This obviously isn't a given however to reach a similar height for a lift hill and have at least a somewhat exciting ride it would make sense. I imagine that's better for the locals anyway. I do wonder whether this site could still be considered; I think it probably still can be considered, especially as it doesn't directly enter the valley which might cause them problems. Also with nemesis having sand in the track in a similar area, perhaps that's a gesture to the locals so that they can say this new ride adds no new noise levels.Re-reading the 2015 screening opinion, I don't think it's talking about the woodland we've been assuming (i.e. the woodland behind The Burger Kitchen/Funk'n'Fly). Whilst there isn't a map included with the opinion, from the description of the site and the few facts that are given, it would suggest that it's roughly speaking talking about this site surrounding Nemesis:
Things we know from the screening opinion:
That last point would strongly suggest that the opinion is considering the site currently occupied by Nemesis' extended queue line. Not least because it is the only 'early mature woodland' to the North of The Blade site. This site is already part of the "developed theme park character" because it has rides on three sides of it and a queue line running through it. The description of the trees being lost would also fit this area way better than the woodland to the South or East of the site, since most of the trees up there have only grown in since Nemesis was built.
- The development site is around 1.7 hectares (the purple area is roughly this size)
- A grid reference of SK 079 433 is given (which, depending on how you read it, either represents the red pin by The Blade, or this is the bottom left corner of the grid square referenced)
- The site is 75m from the Prospect Tower (i.e. the site includes either The Edge Games or Skyride Station)
- The site is only visible outside the park from the South Side of the Churnet Valley, and is less visible than Air, Nemesis, the Hotels and Skyride cables over the garden
- The proposed ride had a high point of 202.5 AOD (above sea level), and the maximum height of the track would be 14.5m from the existing ground levels. The high point is compared to Nemesis, which it states is 'nearby' and has a high point of 202.62.
- The proposed ride would require the removal of approximately 100 tree, most of which would be classed as U or C, but two would be in category A (high quality) and 25 in category B (moderate quality).
- In the conclusion, the opinion states: 'It is considered that the development would not fundamentally alter the existing landscape character of the site and its immediate surroundings.' But they also note that 'at its northern end would allow the 'developed theme park character' to spread slightly further than existing into the currently non-accessed early mature woodland screening.'
You can also work out that the high point of the proposed ride would have to be within the dark purple outline. Give the maximum height of the track is 14.5m, but the high point of the ride is 202.5m, this means that the high point must be built on ground at least 188m AOD, the outlined area is the only area at this end of Forbidden Valley with land that is high enough to allow this. For reference, the path of the extended queue line after it turns sharp right is at a height of around 188m.
So, yeah. I'm not sure the 2015 screening opinion really tell us anything relating to cross valley coaster or a ride anywhere very near the valley, but on the other hand might be of interest when it comes to SW9 speculation, as it is clearly a different site the park have recently considered for a big ride, and not one that often comes up in discussion.
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Cross Valley Coaster
- Thread starter QTXAdsy
- Start date
TheTalbotHound
TS Member
Given the proximity to Alton village I hope they make it an indoor coaster, hopefully with some theming. I doubt they could find something quieter than Thirteen to put in coaster corner without any noise protection.
jon81uk
TS Member
There is no way an outdoor coaster would be built at coaster corner.
I think best option would be something like Crush’s coaster at WDSP, a family indoor coaster with a bit of theming.
Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Would Spinball fit there? Could put it in a building on that site and give it a re-theme.
jon81uk
TS Member
Far easier to design a coaster that will fit in a building with the station in the right place and the tall bits of the ride together in a taller bit of the building.
Don’t think they would gain much by moving Spinball.
jon81uk
TS Member
But dark rides and indoor attractions are what the park is in need of, not outdoor coasters.
Yes you are probably right but they don’t install rides based on what the park needs but rather on marketability and cost.
jon81uk
TS Member
But what the park needs determines how marketable it can be. Swarm did poorly at Thorpe, partly because it was seen as yet another coaster.
A new experience the park doesn't already have should be very marketable if done properly.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
Wasn’t Swarm’s failure commonly attributed to 2012’s external factors (e.g. the Olympics, poor weather), as well as the fact that the park had hit its all-time attendance peak in 2009-2011, so was unlikely to grow regardless of what was built?
It should also be noted that DBGT, a non-coaster, wasn’t exactly a roaring success either, so I don’t think there’s any hard, fast rule dictating that what the park lacks will always do well.
AT86
TS Member
There will always be multiple reasons for a rides success or failure, nothing in life is straight forward.
I suspect Merlin’s nervousness around building something else instead of a coaster for a major investment at Alton Towers has played into the last few big capex projects. They have probably drawn up various plans over the years but reverted to coasters because they know from past experience they pull in the crowds, so are less risky.
I hope they take the risk and stay away from coasters for a while and put the money into something else.
I suppose this is where we could see the advantage of private ownership, they can take more risky strategy to reach longer term goals, so hopefully you may be right but who knows at this point.
Matt.GC
TS Member
Yet another inversions focused coaster is being built at Thorpe all around a complete gimmick - the height which the coaster size itself doesn't need other than for marketing reasons. Another Wing Rider is being built just down the road at Chessington, with an inappropriate 1.4mtr height restriction, woeful throughput like everything else at the park and with the whole thing being centred around an IP. Both are probably being seen as safe bets and exist mainly because neither park has had a significant investment build in a while and a coaster is a tried and tested method. Considerations as to whether either will sit well in their respective parks lineup has clearly taken a back seat in the decision making process.
I'm not confident the leopard has changed its spots since going private, so I expect the next thing Towers will get will be yet another coaster, marketed heavily with a gimmick. That could rule out indoor (the only thing they can realistically build in coaster corner), a comprehensive dark ride or water coaster as all would cost a similar amount to just building an outdoor coaster that they know draws attendance (short term). Although we can dream, realistically that coaster will certainly not be cross valley.
I'm not confident the leopard has changed its spots since going private, so I expect the next thing Towers will get will be yet another coaster, marketed heavily with a gimmick. That could rule out indoor (the only thing they can realistically build in coaster corner), a comprehensive dark ride or water coaster as all would cost a similar amount to just building an outdoor coaster that they know draws attendance (short term). Although we can dream, realistically that coaster will certainly not be cross valley.
I think you definitely have a point, I too doubt he likelyhood of a cross valley any time soon however I will say Towers is in a very different position to chessington and Thorpe. Almost anything towers adds can be marketed using good branding and attract people. They are in a much stronger position brand wise so it may be seen as less risky and as towers really is the flagship theme park of the uk I imagine it gets larger budgets anyway.
jon81uk
TS Member
We're veering off-topic but I think indoor could be the sellable gimmick for a new coaster. It would be the UKs only indoor coaster, as Black Hole, Space Invader and Raptor Attack have all now gone.
Thameslink Rail
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Smiler
Actually we have a few indoor coasters here:
The Walking Dead: The Ride
Astro Storm, Brean
Jellikins Coaster, Fantasy Island
Crazy Mouse, Gulliver's MK
Log Flume's Dennis
TS Member
re: the 2015 plans, I worked at the park between 2014 - 2018 and the day before Feb half term opening in 2015 they placed flags all around FV and drove around the local area to check everything was within the tree lines (it was the the theme parks boss, Justin something...) . If I recall there were flags around Blade, the Valley side of the sky ride station, then all the way down to near Nemesis lift hill, but nothing in the valley itself. Thought this info might be interesting to some. It was definitely the Friday before Feb half term kicked off in 2015
jon81uk
TS Member
Forgot about X / The Walking Dead.
Would still be a pretty major selling factor I think as a major park doing a brand new indoor coaster.
I've just looked up the others and Brean's Astro Storm looks alright and they advertised it as Europes best dark ride coaster (hmm), so I'm sure AT could do similar.
Crazy Mouse is going to give me nightmares