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Disneyland Paris: Attendance drop and cash flow crisis
- Thread starter AstroDan
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Craig
TS Administrator
What is going on now? Why is DLP suffering as the likes of Europa-Park, Efteling and PortAventura go from strength to strength?
I guess from an enthusiast's point of view, there's been very little to excite me going back to DLP for the last few years, and I suppose that's a very similar situation for other guests too. I'm sure it's still great to visit as a new visitor, but aside from recent years, there's been very little in terms of new attractions with a "wow" factor to bring those new visitors back.
Ratatouille and recent improvements have gone some way to improving things, but have they really captured the general public's attention? I've seen very few outside of the forum communities talking about it in real life. As much as these investments are great, I can't help but think the place needs a massive cash injection and reorganisation a la DCA to really have any sort of effect in turning round the place's fortunes and stop the rot.
Danny
TS Contributor
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
When I was younger, DLP was all the hype around my friends and they were all desperate to get out there. In an almost Alton Towers esque manner however, the magic has been lost and at a Disney park of all places, this is more concerning. The treatment of staff, the state of disrepair, I'd say this has been inevitable for quite a while.
By saving up harder, families from the UK these days can get much more value for money from a full trip to Orlando, and I imagine that is almost definitely a contributing factor. Moreover, the competition from the other seemingly continuous and intent on expanding European parks appears to be larger than ever. DLP is definitely and sadly a sinking ship.
By saving up harder, families from the UK these days can get much more value for money from a full trip to Orlando, and I imagine that is almost definitely a contributing factor. Moreover, the competition from the other seemingly continuous and intent on expanding European parks appears to be larger than ever. DLP is definitely and sadly a sinking ship.
Jonathan
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Helix <3
After Junket, those of us who visited Disney were largely disappointed by the place. It's gone downhill, and as Craig said, there's been little in terms of new attractions with a 'wow' factor recently. If there's one theme park that should be of excellent quality (excluding EP, of course), then it's Disney.
TheMan
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- NemiLerVion
I can only ever help thinking that a trip do DLP would always be on the way to somewhere else like Europa.
I remember when it opened, it was a real buzz, but I don't know anyone who visits regularly or really wants to.
Universal are leading the way right now on attracting global attention PURELY by way of your attractions, not the experience of visiting "Disney". Universal is not a brand like Disney is. With it's incredible success it shows what they needed to do, not rely on being "Disney" and actually build a world class attraction.
Europa Park are showing them how it's done, and if the trend continues, in 20 years time, it will be vastly better themed, with infinitely better hardware, and far more visitors, and the industry will be better off for it.
I remember when it opened, it was a real buzz, but I don't know anyone who visits regularly or really wants to.
Universal are leading the way right now on attracting global attention PURELY by way of your attractions, not the experience of visiting "Disney". Universal is not a brand like Disney is. With it's incredible success it shows what they needed to do, not rely on being "Disney" and actually build a world class attraction.
Europa Park are showing them how it's done, and if the trend continues, in 20 years time, it will be vastly better themed, with infinitely better hardware, and far more visitors, and the industry will be better off for it.
Craig
TS Administrator
Yup as great as Europa is, and the likes of Universal - there's still something (cliche time) magical about Disney. The likes of Cars Land is like nothing you have ever seen before, Universal included. That fact will always remain no matter what the other parks do. As much as I lay into DLP regarding how they've run the resort over the years, Europe and the industry would not be better for it being left by the wayside. Disney can do some amazing things, it's just DLP have lacked the funding to do it, and I'd love to see that change.
TheMan
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- NemiLerVion
I think I should clarify my point, I meant a Disney park being ran badly.
I never want to see any park close, but when the independent parks improve and outdo them, I think it inspires the industry as a whole, so although Disney is doing badly right now, other parks are benefiting from it and I see that as a good thing.
I would love to visit a "proper" Disney park, but you just never get that impression from DLP to want to visit - I never have, anyway.
I would visit don't get me wrong, but would I travel all the way there to do it JUST for that? No.
Could still see the draw with younger kids, but DLP just doesn't seem to have a spark or anything that really makes me want to visit.
I never want to see any park close, but when the independent parks improve and outdo them, I think it inspires the industry as a whole, so although Disney is doing badly right now, other parks are benefiting from it and I see that as a good thing.
I would love to visit a "proper" Disney park, but you just never get that impression from DLP to want to visit - I never have, anyway.
I would visit don't get me wrong, but would I travel all the way there to do it JUST for that? No.
Could still see the draw with younger kids, but DLP just doesn't seem to have a spark or anything that really makes me want to visit.
Craig
TS Administrator
So a massive €1bn of refinancing by WDC, a massive amount! There's a hell of a lot in the press release that's pretty confusing in all honesty, but it's over here if anyone wants to disect it!
From what I've gleamed from it, WDC have pretty much reduced DLP's debt by a whopping €600m, and extended payment terms for even more debt on top of that through to 2023. They've had a cash injection of €450m, and it's thought they'll have around €250m to spend as a result of this. All in all, it's pretty good news and takes the heat off DLP while they spend time restructuring. It also seems to be good news that WDC have provided even more funding to the resort. More of a vested interest from them financially surely means more support in terms of new attractions in the future.
From what I've gleamed from it, WDC have pretty much reduced DLP's debt by a whopping €600m, and extended payment terms for even more debt on top of that through to 2023. They've had a cash injection of €450m, and it's thought they'll have around €250m to spend as a result of this. All in all, it's pretty good news and takes the heat off DLP while they spend time restructuring. It also seems to be good news that WDC have provided even more funding to the resort. More of a vested interest from them financially surely means more support in terms of new attractions in the future.
DiogoJ42
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Metropolitan Line
To most parks this would be an unbelievable ammount of money. But Disney could find a way to spend it all on a simple repaint of one ride.
Benzin
TS Member
DLP simply suffers from being stupidly expensive to visit...
A week there can easily equal two weeks (and an arguably more satisfactory holiday) in Disney Florida and a FlexTicket...
The lack of major additions is also a factor, considering Ratatouille whilst unique hasn't grasped the imagination of the visiting public... Studios needs a California Adventure style revamp whilst the Magic Kingdom just NEEDS things... Be it an Indy dark ride, some Fantasyland additions (Little Mermaid) or a water ride in Frontierland... Then there's also ride revamps like Star Tours that will no doubt be done to coincide with the new films...
Lots of things need doing at the parks, hopefully this'll be the kickstart to get it back on track...
A week there can easily equal two weeks (and an arguably more satisfactory holiday) in Disney Florida and a FlexTicket...
The lack of major additions is also a factor, considering Ratatouille whilst unique hasn't grasped the imagination of the visiting public... Studios needs a California Adventure style revamp whilst the Magic Kingdom just NEEDS things... Be it an Indy dark ride, some Fantasyland additions (Little Mermaid) or a water ride in Frontierland... Then there's also ride revamps like Star Tours that will no doubt be done to coincide with the new films...
Lots of things need doing at the parks, hopefully this'll be the kickstart to get it back on track...
Scott
Former TS Team Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Does it though?
In low season you can price a 3 night trip at the budget hotels including half board dining and tickets for the same as staying in Splash at the same time without food or tickets...
Benzin
TS Member
S'all well and good if you can visit in low season... But what if you (like the target family audience) can't?
EDIT - Also just checked for 2 nights, 2 adults hotel booking, from the 20th October, Santa Fe is nearly twice the price of Splash Landings...
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Scott
Former TS Team Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
And indeed it should be considering it's bloody Disneyland
But I meant there are always offers about. If you look at the website homepage it advertises Winter with 20% off and free dining plan, Autumn with up to 30% off and next summer at this years prices.
Dar
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
It's just the name "Disney" though. From what I've seen people saying here and elsewhere, it's seriously lacking and getting worse by the year. Hopefully a cash injection is used wisely to smarten the place up and add something new, on a slightly smaller scale than Ratatouille. I've never been, I want to go but I can't justify paying the price when I could somewhere better for the same or less money!
Ian
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Dizz, Bobby’s Yarn Land
From what I can see, the last time there was a financial restructuring like this WDC allocated them €240M to invest in new attractions, which resulted in us seeing ToT, Buzz Lightyear's Laser Blast, Crush's Coaster, and Cars Race Rally.
A few of us were discussing the place at length last night. Paris' issue is not all down to the attractions if you ask me. It has some of the best examples of WDI attractions, and over the years it did come to have a lineup which suits the European market (We have 3 inverting coasters across two parks for example). The individual pieces are there, though TLC is undoubtedly required on a lot of them now.
At the moment I do think half of the problem is the past coming back to haunt the place. It's been the victim of poor planning, execution and mismanagement. All in all it's probably one of the most plagued park projects going! Even back to 1992 it was all wrong. The wrong product, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Thankfully over the first few years Disney managed to mature a little and had the realisation that their tried and tested US formula wasn't going to fly in Europe, and they did go some way to putting it right.
I think it was @Craig last night when we were talking who said that one of the main things the park needs to look at now is drawing in new adult markets. It's something which is happening at Florida with Disney Springs in an attempt to provide adult appeal. Paris already has a head start on most of the other parks thanks to Space Mountain, Indy (It may be naff, but it's an asset), Rock 'n' Rollercoaster, and ToT. On paper from a rides point of view it is part of the way there. It should be easier to get adults into Disneyland Paris than it would at say Magic Kingdom.
Ultimately I think that WDC needs to look at getting more and more control over the park. It's the only way it will ever receive the investment the park requires to bring it up to standard expected by visitors to a Disney park. However, I can somewhat understand their reluctance to take on more at this stage. Not only is there the risk that the park may never recover, but also Disney have a lot of potentially volatile projects on-going, what with Shanghai Disneyland, My Magic+ and Disney Springs. It's understandable that they wouldn't want the full burden of DLP on top of that.
I don't think that WDC will want to try and take full rein over the park until they see signs of recovery, with people coming in, spending, and the park beginning to, or coming close to turning a profit. As soon as this starts to happen I think they will then want control back if they can get it, in order to reap the rewards.
Personally, I reckon that today's announcement is the start of a plan for the next 8-9 years:
As an example, the original Space Mountain marketing was all about the thrilling new ride in 1995. No mention of the rest of the park, other than one line at the end: "The awesome new ride, at Disneyland Paris". Alongside this the generic "Someone you know can't wait to go." advert geared for the families and young children. Something must have worked, because 1995 was the first time the park ever posted a quarterly profit, and attendance was up!
Hopefully with the money which they are coming into can be used to try and kick-start the park between now and 2023, after which WDC can either attempt to take over from EuroDisney S.C.A, or they can at least keep closer tabs on what's going on to prevent us from going full circle again. WDC must have a plan and see a future for the park though to have invested this latest amount into the place.
I do really want to see the place succeed and become the attraction it was originally envisaged to be (Europe's answer to WDW). It does have the makings of a fantastic park, and I really do hope it can one day get there.
Only time will tell...
A few of us were discussing the place at length last night. Paris' issue is not all down to the attractions if you ask me. It has some of the best examples of WDI attractions, and over the years it did come to have a lineup which suits the European market (We have 3 inverting coasters across two parks for example). The individual pieces are there, though TLC is undoubtedly required on a lot of them now.
At the moment I do think half of the problem is the past coming back to haunt the place. It's been the victim of poor planning, execution and mismanagement. All in all it's probably one of the most plagued park projects going! Even back to 1992 it was all wrong. The wrong product, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Thankfully over the first few years Disney managed to mature a little and had the realisation that their tried and tested US formula wasn't going to fly in Europe, and they did go some way to putting it right.
I think it was @Craig last night when we were talking who said that one of the main things the park needs to look at now is drawing in new adult markets. It's something which is happening at Florida with Disney Springs in an attempt to provide adult appeal. Paris already has a head start on most of the other parks thanks to Space Mountain, Indy (It may be naff, but it's an asset), Rock 'n' Rollercoaster, and ToT. On paper from a rides point of view it is part of the way there. It should be easier to get adults into Disneyland Paris than it would at say Magic Kingdom.
Ultimately I think that WDC needs to look at getting more and more control over the park. It's the only way it will ever receive the investment the park requires to bring it up to standard expected by visitors to a Disney park. However, I can somewhat understand their reluctance to take on more at this stage. Not only is there the risk that the park may never recover, but also Disney have a lot of potentially volatile projects on-going, what with Shanghai Disneyland, My Magic+ and Disney Springs. It's understandable that they wouldn't want the full burden of DLP on top of that.
I don't think that WDC will want to try and take full rein over the park until they see signs of recovery, with people coming in, spending, and the park beginning to, or coming close to turning a profit. As soon as this starts to happen I think they will then want control back if they can get it, in order to reap the rewards.
Personally, I reckon that today's announcement is the start of a plan for the next 8-9 years:
- Restructure the finances now to try and wipe the slate a little cleaner once more
- Use the money saved from clearing debt to carry out the maintenance and restoration work to the parks
- Pipe the extra €250M into one or two new E-Ticket rides to entice visitors back to the parks
As an example, the original Space Mountain marketing was all about the thrilling new ride in 1995. No mention of the rest of the park, other than one line at the end: "The awesome new ride, at Disneyland Paris". Alongside this the generic "Someone you know can't wait to go." advert geared for the families and young children. Something must have worked, because 1995 was the first time the park ever posted a quarterly profit, and attendance was up!
Hopefully with the money which they are coming into can be used to try and kick-start the park between now and 2023, after which WDC can either attempt to take over from EuroDisney S.C.A, or they can at least keep closer tabs on what's going on to prevent us from going full circle again. WDC must have a plan and see a future for the park though to have invested this latest amount into the place.
I do really want to see the place succeed and become the attraction it was originally envisaged to be (Europe's answer to WDW). It does have the makings of a fantastic park, and I really do hope it can one day get there.
Only time will tell...
IanB
TS Member
There is something magical about Disney parks, which I struggle to put in to words. I think if your a Disney fan, you will know what I mean.
I just feel that they borrowed to much in the early days to get the park off the ground, and instead of being able to spend money on improving the parks, it ended up being used to pay the banks back. It almost feels like a similar story with Merlin, borrow more and more money to fund its expansion, but not leaving itself with enough money to spend on its parks.
The park has everything it needs to succeed, good transport infrastructure (train,plane or road) in place already, plenty of room to expand, some great rides and a brand that sells itself. Once it rids itself of its debt burden, and can invest and maintain the parks each year, it should be on to a winning formula.
I think Disney now owning Marvel and Star Wars, it has something that appeals to older teens as well as younger children, and this should allow the park to invest in wider range of rides for all ages. That being said, I do not think Disney parks do a bad job of having something for all ages, but it would be nice to see Disney try and deploy a coaster which finds itself in the top 5 coasters in the world.
One thing I would like to see return is Disney parks having something unique that no other park has. A headline attraction (or two), that makes people want to go to different parks on their next visit to Disney. Something that makes people think twice about just booking Florida or California.
Ian
I just feel that they borrowed to much in the early days to get the park off the ground, and instead of being able to spend money on improving the parks, it ended up being used to pay the banks back. It almost feels like a similar story with Merlin, borrow more and more money to fund its expansion, but not leaving itself with enough money to spend on its parks.
The park has everything it needs to succeed, good transport infrastructure (train,plane or road) in place already, plenty of room to expand, some great rides and a brand that sells itself. Once it rids itself of its debt burden, and can invest and maintain the parks each year, it should be on to a winning formula.
I think Disney now owning Marvel and Star Wars, it has something that appeals to older teens as well as younger children, and this should allow the park to invest in wider range of rides for all ages. That being said, I do not think Disney parks do a bad job of having something for all ages, but it would be nice to see Disney try and deploy a coaster which finds itself in the top 5 coasters in the world.
One thing I would like to see return is Disney parks having something unique that no other park has. A headline attraction (or two), that makes people want to go to different parks on their next visit to Disney. Something that makes people think twice about just booking Florida or California.
Ian
Ted
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Kondaa
It's a shame to hear about this. Whilst it may not be the best park among us, I still think it is a rather good place for families and there are some rides for even older people (Rock and Roller Coaster, Tower of Terror ETC). I feel that one of the problems is that it is just too expensive for some people to get. I was planning to go with my family for my Mum's 50th birthday in January of next year, but couldn't really afford it. The price also leads onto the problem of what is there as well and I feel that both parks don't justify the large price tag of going. Especially the regular park.
I do think however the park could get back on its feet one day. It's still a popular park despite what's happening. It just needs a few more attractions like a Splash Mountain, another coaster in the main park, and 1 or 2 major attractions in the studios as well.
I do think however the park could get back on its feet one day. It's still a popular park despite what's happening. It just needs a few more attractions like a Splash Mountain, another coaster in the main park, and 1 or 2 major attractions in the studios as well.
