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Drayton Manor Park
I think the alleged issue is how long they took to get the emergency services not the accident itself.
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DistortAMG
TS Member
That is quite a different scenario, bringing harm to others rather than putting themselves in danger.
I believe some of the grounds for corporate manslaughter is that fact that a lot of the signs along the ride that state to remain seated, were obscured by vegetation and other things. I am sure I also heard that even when you take into account the fact that they can't just turn the ride off, the staff were still very slow to respond and react to the situation once alerted, which also comes down to Drayton Manor and it's training procedures. In this day and age a theme park has to do everything it possibly can within reason to keep the guests safe. Obscured safety signs and slow responding staff are two big no no's. Another point that will come into play is Draytons policies of allowing young children onto rides where there is a risk of going overboard, without requiring adult supervision. I understand other parks may have the same policy. But it's because it happened to Drayton that their supervision policies will come under scrutiny, regardless of other parks having similar policies.
I love Drayton and I hope them the best of luck and I do not think they are totally to blame. But, I think some of the responsibility does lie with them.
I think it is safe to say at this point, that whatever happens. Drayton will be receiving a large fine.
JackFitzy
TS Member
I believe that she was actually in the boat with a teacher at the time, if the article linked on this thread is anything to go by.
DistortAMG
TS Member
Fair enough, however they do not require adult supervision on the rapids. Or atleast never used to. So the point will still stand. 11 year old me always used to ride Splash Canyon without any adults.
To the people that say it is her fault because she should have stayed seated. I am sorry but you are wrong.
My son knows the dangers of the road. Does that mean I can let him roam free by the road and I can accept no responsibility if he was to be hit by a car, because I have taught him the dangers of the road? No.
The blame would still firmly be on me as his parent. Why? Because he is a child. A defining characteristic of a child is making ill thought out, erratic and even spontaneous decisions because that is what kids do. My son might know the dangers of the road, but if his ball rolled into the road, he might momentarily forget about the dangers as he is just focused and fixated on the ball. Thats kids, that is what they do.
To the people that say it is her fault because she should have stayed seated. I am sorry but you are wrong.
My son knows the dangers of the road. Does that mean I can let him roam free by the road and I can accept no responsibility if he was to be hit by a car, because I have taught him the dangers of the road? No.
The blame would still firmly be on me as his parent. Why? Because he is a child. A defining characteristic of a child is making ill thought out, erratic and even spontaneous decisions because that is what kids do. My son might know the dangers of the road, but if his ball rolled into the road, he might momentarily forget about the dangers as he is just focused and fixated on the ball. Thats kids, that is what they do.
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Sauron97
TS Member
@DistortAMG Out of interest, does the Intamin manufaturers guidelines state that a child should be accompanied by an adult? Just for the record, I don't blame Intamin in any way, and I think they've had a tough time over the years with their coasters, so deserve a well earned break, in fact, what I mean is that it's more about it not being down to Drayton! I have to say, I agree with you a lot on most things, but I think an 11 year old is able to read a signpost saying don't stand up and understand that it's not safe to disregard that. I certainly understood that going on Splash Canyon as a kid. Hell, I've been on the ride since I was about 3 or 4, and never did I even think of standing up!
Remember, Stormforce 10 despite being classed as a thrill ride, never used to have a 1.2m height restriction. After an accident on the ride involving a boy hitting his head, Drayton contacted abc rides (Bear), and they admitted that the current restriction wasn't safe and settled on 1.2m.
Remember, Stormforce 10 despite being classed as a thrill ride, never used to have a 1.2m height restriction. After an accident on the ride involving a boy hitting his head, Drayton contacted abc rides (Bear), and they admitted that the current restriction wasn't safe and settled on 1.2m.
AT86
TS Member
Once again, the issue here (as far as the law is concerned) appears to be related to the parks response (or potential lack of) to the guest entering into the water and not the actual falling out of the boat itself.
If this gets to court we will be privy to the details just like the Smiler case. If it doesn’t, we will probably never know what the issues were.
If this gets to court we will be privy to the details just like the Smiler case. If it doesn’t, we will probably never know what the issues were.
Skyscraper
TS Member
No, I'm pretty sure that the teacher was in the boat behind.
Alsty
TS Member
As we saw from the Smiler investigation, the spotlight is turned on training, supervision and processes to control the risks.
If you have good controls in place, rigorous training, supervision and auditing arrangements and somebody is injured/ killed in a freak accident then it'll be accepted there's nothing more you could do. However if someone is injured or killed and there was something missing that allowed that to happen, that's when you're in trouble.
If you have good controls in place, rigorous training, supervision and auditing arrangements and somebody is injured/ killed in a freak accident then it'll be accepted there's nothing more you could do. However if someone is injured or killed and there was something missing that allowed that to happen, that's when you're in trouble.
AT86
TS Member
This.
Sauron97
TS Member
Yeah, but the argument from our end is: what could allow it to happen? There was no abnormal behavior from the boats, or machinery (the turntable, wave generator, lift hill, and rotating cones) that went wrong, as the investigation hasn't pulled any of this out whatsoever. In fact, the only real input of staff, was getting her on the ride, and draining the ride once the incident was identified. The issue we want to learn is, what was this 'alleged delay', did the staff not notice her swimming, did they call emergency services immediately? Did the drainage begin as soon as they noticed her swimming before she was hit? If the 'delay' was simply the time it takes to drain the ride to then go and rescue her, then nothing more could of been done; it wasn't a delay. As for the child accompanying rule, no, she was old enough to be understand the no standing rule, and if despite all of this, the teachers suspected that the girls in the boat would mess about and act irresponsibly, one of them should of sat in the spare seat in her boat. Unless the manufacturer advises that adults should accompany under 13s or something along those lines, Drayton were following manufacturer procedures and did nothing wrong.
If it goes any further, which a betting man would probably say it would, given the scale of the charges they may be facing, we will learn of this alleged delay and be able to understand with our enthusiast minds as to whether there is any real blame that can be applied to Drayton or how the ride was operated. I fear that this situation is turning in to a blame game, and the easy target is a well respected, much loved Theme park that is important not only to the local economy, but is a major UK theme park. I worry that greed has overtaken empathy among some people, and I do wonder whether the Director of Prosecutions is trying to take advantage of this situation, having looked in to the sickening stories of complacency during her tenure.
If it goes any further, which a betting man would probably say it would, given the scale of the charges they may be facing, we will learn of this alleged delay and be able to understand with our enthusiast minds as to whether there is any real blame that can be applied to Drayton or how the ride was operated. I fear that this situation is turning in to a blame game, and the easy target is a well respected, much loved Theme park that is important not only to the local economy, but is a major UK theme park. I worry that greed has overtaken empathy among some people, and I do wonder whether the Director of Prosecutions is trying to take advantage of this situation, having looked in to the sickening stories of complacency during her tenure.
Europa Matt
TS Member
This epitomises UK regulations:
Unfortunately we live in a time where one little thing goes wrong and the business/establish is prosecuted big time and has to pick up the pieces.
I honestly hope Drayton’s safety and operation procedures are sound, otherwise I can see them being sued in the seven figure margin, which would severely cripple them financially to the point of selling up or bankruptcy.
This would also mean the ride would likely be shut down permanently and mean other similar rides also follow-suit or undergo extreme operational changes. I.E fewer boats/capacity, less water effects and maybe even compulsory life vests to smaller/all riders.
Unfortunately regardless of age, gender, ethnicity etc. You will always get park guests that fail to comply safety rules.whether they are mentioned in the small print or plastered all over the ride area.
Unfortunately we live in a time where one little thing goes wrong and the business/establish is prosecuted big time and has to pick up the pieces.
I honestly hope Drayton’s safety and operation procedures are sound, otherwise I can see them being sued in the seven figure margin, which would severely cripple them financially to the point of selling up or bankruptcy.
This would also mean the ride would likely be shut down permanently and mean other similar rides also follow-suit or undergo extreme operational changes. I.E fewer boats/capacity, less water effects and maybe even compulsory life vests to smaller/all riders.
Unfortunately regardless of age, gender, ethnicity etc. You will always get park guests that fail to comply safety rules.whether they are mentioned in the small print or plastered all over the ride area.
Alsty
TS Member
Well, it seems like there is evidence to suggest there were some failings otherwise there wouldn't be a file of evidence to pass to CPS. If the CPS decide to bring a prosecution then all of the evidence will be open to scrutiny in court and ultimately the court will decide. Contrary to popular opinion, they are not swayed by moral panic or hysteria from the media.
Perhaps one of the stranger things to me is the police seem to have led this investigation. I would have expected it to be the Health & Safety Executive.
It's because it was a death, had she survived then it would have been H&S led, it's another quirk of the Law dating back to English Common Law times, Police always lead unexpected death investigations.
@Sauron97, the education guidelines fours years ago were a six children to one adult ratio and under 13's must be accompanied by a responsible adult at all times during school trips, I cannot imagine they would have been relaxed since then (I know these because I did a school trip with my sons school and the hoops they had to jump through were strict and I had to have an enhanced background check and first aid course for a four hour trip), what the manufacturer recommended for their ride is kind of immaterial in this respect (a school trip), but we're unlikely to hear about that side of things.
@Sauron97, the education guidelines fours years ago were a six children to one adult ratio and under 13's must be accompanied by a responsible adult at all times during school trips, I cannot imagine they would have been relaxed since then (I know these because I did a school trip with my sons school and the hoops they had to jump through were strict and I had to have an enhanced background check and first aid course for a four hour trip), what the manufacturer recommended for their ride is kind of immaterial in this respect (a school trip), but we're unlikely to hear about that side of things.
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Sauron97
TS Member
I've given a list of questions about what Drayton could of done wrong; ask yourself: are they likely to have done any of these things incorrectly? My presumption is no, because it is protocol to shut down the ride, drain the ride, and contact emergency services if anything like this happens, and I can't see how they haven't done any of these steps. If they have, then that is very bad, and I really hope the evidence does not involve this. But I doubt that to be true based on logical probability. The issue raised by Keith Vaz, was that nobody 'came to help' when she fell in the water. I'm saying, if this was what was meant by the allegation of 'taking too long to help' then it is nonsensical, as staff cannot do anything other than what they did, and I expect they did it to the best of their standards, given the horror that was unfolding. I personally believe given this information the Park and Staff did nothing wrong, and if there were any factors in the ride operations which exacerbate the risk of falling out, like not having adults accompanying under 18s ect. then Intamin should recheck and test their guidelines to make sure that they are safe.
I'm admitting I don't know the full facts, and what I'm saying isn't absolute, but it does matter, because it may well be true (which I hope it isn't). I hope the whole thing proves Drayton did no wrong, the family and accusers accept this, and the question of blame disappears.
I'm admitting I don't know the full facts, and what I'm saying isn't absolute, but it does matter, because it may well be true (which I hope it isn't). I hope the whole thing proves Drayton did no wrong, the family and accusers accept this, and the question of blame disappears.
Oh I know exactly what you're getting at @Sauron97
Also, doesn't Vaz sit on the Justice Select Committee? Isn't that a conflict of interest?
My assumption is this will resolve around the staff's reaction times, it seems she was in the water for some time before drowning, so perhaps they are saying whoever was watching the CCTV was asleep and didn't react fast enough? Or maybe it's how long they took to call an ambulance that is in questions? I really dislike this blame culture we live in now, gone are the days where accidents happen randomly, someone is always to blame now.
Also, doesn't Vaz sit on the Justice Select Committee? Isn't that a conflict of interest?
My assumption is this will resolve around the staff's reaction times, it seems she was in the water for some time before drowning, so perhaps they are saying whoever was watching the CCTV was asleep and didn't react fast enough? Or maybe it's how long they took to call an ambulance that is in questions? I really dislike this blame culture we live in now, gone are the days where accidents happen randomly, someone is always to blame now.
AT86
TS Member
You can’t just hit e-stop, call 999 and then sit back and wait for them to arrive.
There has to be procedures in place for staff/management to deal with the situation in that in between period to the best of their ability - which they should have been trained for and practiced. But let’s just wait and see what (if anything) comes to light.
There has to be procedures in place for staff/management to deal with the situation in that in between period to the best of their ability - which they should have been trained for and practiced. But let’s just wait and see what (if anything) comes to light.
EuroSatch
TS Member
Wow, this topic makes grim reading. You lot need to get some flipping perspective here rather than tugging out your hair because it involves a theme park.
A girl died. An 11 year old girl. She died, and she and her family had put their trust in Drayton Manor to keep her safe. That trust was breached, and no amount of crying that ‘she didn’t obey the ride rules’ will change the fact there was not enough safeguarding in place to prevent this from happening.
SHE WAS 11 YEARS OLD!
If Drayton pays a hefty fine, it’ll be covered by their own indemnity, or considered a provision on the balance sheet. Suggesting that they shouldn’t have to pay a fine because they are a private family run company, is ridiculously hypocritical as you’re suggesting you wouldn’t bat an eyelid if it was a Merlin Park, because they deserve it for being greedy corporates... They’re both in it for the money, that’s what business is about. The good news is if Drayton a fined, they will still exist. The girl however is no longer here
A girl died. An 11 year old girl. She died, and she and her family had put their trust in Drayton Manor to keep her safe. That trust was breached, and no amount of crying that ‘she didn’t obey the ride rules’ will change the fact there was not enough safeguarding in place to prevent this from happening.
SHE WAS 11 YEARS OLD!
If Drayton pays a hefty fine, it’ll be covered by their own indemnity, or considered a provision on the balance sheet. Suggesting that they shouldn’t have to pay a fine because they are a private family run company, is ridiculously hypocritical as you’re suggesting you wouldn’t bat an eyelid if it was a Merlin Park, because they deserve it for being greedy corporates... They’re both in it for the money, that’s what business is about. The good news is if Drayton a fined, they will still exist. The girl however is no longer here