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Dreamland Margate: General Discussion
- Thread starter Sam
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Skyscraper
TS Member
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- Nemesis
Correction: £18 million.
You could say the same thing about family owned parks. I know what you mean though, there aren't loads of successful examples. Liseberg is probably the pinnacle of a publicly owned park?
Efteling might not be publicly owned as such, but it's owned by a charitable foundation?
Rick
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- Crux
Yes, true on both counts. I guess the distinction I would make with those is that at this point they are dependable businesses, whereas the proposal for Dreamland would have been essentially building a new park with public funds using heritage 'stuff' that essentially had little value when it was constructed.
All that Zamperla stuff retains a not insignificant percentage of its value if/when the venture failed. No one is going to buy the Pleasureland Skyride off you after spending six figures to get it running again.
John_P
TS Member
The issue with a 'heritage' Park would be attracting visitors (and repeat custom). No doubt if it had happened the first year with enthusiasts/vloggers etc would've done reasonably well with people wanting to ride old favourites and get on the scenic, but then after that whose visiting in future years.
Still rubbish how they allowed classic rides like Blackpools whip, and King Solomons mines to go to waste.
Still rubbish how they allowed classic rides like Blackpools whip, and King Solomons mines to go to waste.
Matt N
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Out of interest, what parks are publicly owned in the USA?
Personally, I’ll admit I quite like the principle of a government-run park. If the government ran a park, I feel like there would be a real incentive to strive for the best of the best, both in terms of rides, theming, overall experience and service, to really show the park off as a beacon of British creativity and innovation (Or if this principle was applied to a different country, then the creativity and innovation of that country)!
If done right, I think such a park could almost play to a government’s political advantage; if you combined the best theme park industry minds the country has to offer, as well as other tourism professionals to help strive for brilliance, then I really think such a park could be a beacon to the world to show what we can do and what the government is capable of!
Personally, I’ll admit I quite like the principle of a government-run park. If the government ran a park, I feel like there would be a real incentive to strive for the best of the best, both in terms of rides, theming, overall experience and service, to really show the park off as a beacon of British creativity and innovation (Or if this principle was applied to a different country, then the creativity and innovation of that country)!
If done right, I think such a park could almost play to a government’s political advantage; if you combined the best theme park industry minds the country has to offer, as well as other tourism professionals to help strive for brilliance, then I really think such a park could be a beacon to the world to show what we can do and what the government is capable of!
Rick
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- Crux
Now you're asking ... Rye Playland is, Bay Beach is, the City of New York owns the Cyclone. Until a few years ago the city of Santa Clara owned the land that Great America sits on, but Cedar Fair bought it, minus the car park.
No. This is a terrible idea.
pluk
TS Member
The insanely popular Carter's Steam Fair suggests this just isn't true. Good old rides are still good and people will repeatedly travel.to ride them.
What's happened to Dreamlamd is tragic and outrageous in equal measure.
There's nothing wrong with public part ownership of leisure attractions, especially if they can provide some level of education. Great way to ensure it continues to benefit the community rather than just shareholders.
Imagine if the government gave a pot of money to a council to set up a farmers market, and then they said, "Farmers markets don't make a lot of money, so we donated it to Amazon" [the retailer, not the rainforest!]. Given that the Zamperla rides have mostly been sold off, it's a bit academic anyway, because we haven't got a modern amusement park, or a vintage one. Would a vintage amusement park have been successful? Given that the rides that were rescued from Rhyl, Southport and Blackpool got scrapped, we'll never know. Surely that's the point though. The rides were donated, volunteers have up their time, £35 million of public money was pooled together, and look what happened... £35 million of public money was given to an investment banker to set up a heritage amusement park, the heritage amusement park wasn't built, and people say, "It might not have been successful anyway".
Imagine if you paid for a car, and the car wasn't delivered. Would you say, "It might have kept on breaking down"? Or would you say, "Where's my car"? As Pluk says, what's happened is absolutely outrageous. How many other projects are like Dreamland? We've got universal credit being cut by £20, while £35 million gets spaffed on this.
Imagine if you paid for a car, and the car wasn't delivered. Would you say, "It might have kept on breaking down"? Or would you say, "Where's my car"? As Pluk says, what's happened is absolutely outrageous. How many other projects are like Dreamland? We've got universal credit being cut by £20, while £35 million gets spaffed on this.
Prof Burp
TS Member
I read online that Dreamland is currently undergoing a refurbishment and landscaping. Dreamland is now owned by none other than Richard Caddell,the former owner of Brean Theme Park. The article I read also stated that some more Vintage refurbished rides would be added this year. I presume the Zamperla rides have been sold too fund the purchase of Historic rides. I live in hope that the new additions will be the Blackpool Pleasure Beach and Pleasureland Southport rides that The Save Dreamland Campaign originally collected. Dreamland is currently at a crossroads but I can see a positive future ahead.
No the park is owned by Sands heritage limited (SHL) who are owned by the hedge fund Arrowgrass. Which explains why the park isn't doing very well, it's being operated by a hedge fund who have absolutely no idea what they are doing and probably just want to use the land for property development when they are permitted to.
Source: https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2020/12/21/dreamland-sold-to-park-operators-sands-heritage-limited/
Danny
TS Contributor
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Dreamland has been undergoing refurbishment and landscaping since the day it reopened in 2015. Every visit I've had, the park has changed its identity somewhat (be that the park's cosmetic appearance, or the branding and website). This is nothing new, and the constantly shifting ride line-up alters the layout of the park drastically.
Credit where it's due to Littleboys who have done some vintage restoration for Dreamland in the past, and it's a shame they weren't able to do anything with the rides that were donated to the park. It was very clear they weren't to operate again when they were quite literally dumped at the back of the park for all to see with no care taken in storage.
I wouldn't call the future for the park bright. They are very much like Thorpe Park in that they can't establish a target audience or decide what does/doesn't work. Evidently, they've taken a more event-driven approach over recent years with the central focus of the park being the stage, and the calendar has been heavily populated with an extensive variety of events. This isn't necessarily going to guarantee success, however. As others have said, the seemingly blatant pissing of money up the wall with nothing concrete to show for it is absurd.
It's a shame really. I was visiting Dreamland more frequently than Towers at one point given the great press relationship with the park, and their Halloween event made some of the major players in the country look like amateurs.
In terms of the events, there are a reasonably impressive list of events, including some I wouldn’t mind seeing myself. Some of these are events Margate almost certainly wouldn’t get without Dreamland. Some of them are ones that might have been at The Winter Gardens in the past. Certainly, there has been a history of Dreamland poaching events from the Winter Gardens. There is a problem that Margate has a lot of event spaces for a place of its size; The Theatre Royal and The Winter Gardens being the two other main ones.
It might be that having lots of events puts Margate on the map and really invigorates its tourism industry, but it's also possible that it’s been oversaturated. Essentially, the tax payer has put £35 million into setting up another events venue that competes with the ones it’s already funding. Now The Theatre Royal and the Winter Gardens are likely to either close down, or need more public funding to help them compete with Dreamland. The tax payer’s funding different event venues that are competing with each other. Will the whole end up being bigger than the sum of the parts?
theisleofthanetnews.com
Dreamland currently has 20 events on their website, which sounds like a decent amount. But these are spread out between The Ball Room, The Hall by the Sea and The Main Stage. All of these spaces seem somewhat under utilised. Some of these spaces can theoretically be used for other things like weddings or conferences, but at the moment these spaces are only being used something like once a month. Creating these spaces was mostly funded by the taxpayer, and they’re all fairly new and presumably don’t need much maintenance at the moment. But it only works as a business plan because the tax payer was ‘happy’ to put £35 million in and not get anything in return. There’s absolutely no business case for what they’ve done.
It might be that having lots of events puts Margate on the map and really invigorates its tourism industry, but it's also possible that it’s been oversaturated. Essentially, the tax payer has put £35 million into setting up another events venue that competes with the ones it’s already funding. Now The Theatre Royal and the Winter Gardens are likely to either close down, or need more public funding to help them compete with Dreamland. The tax payer’s funding different event venues that are competing with each other. Will the whole end up being bigger than the sum of the parts?
Winter Gardens update confirms closure ‘for period of time’ from August 2022
An update on the future of Margate Winter Gardens says the venue will be shut for ‘a period of time’ following the ‘halt’ in bookings from August 2022. This summer it was announced that bookings fo…
theisleofthanetnews.com
Dreamland currently has 20 events on their website, which sounds like a decent amount. But these are spread out between The Ball Room, The Hall by the Sea and The Main Stage. All of these spaces seem somewhat under utilised. Some of these spaces can theoretically be used for other things like weddings or conferences, but at the moment these spaces are only being used something like once a month. Creating these spaces was mostly funded by the taxpayer, and they’re all fairly new and presumably don’t need much maintenance at the moment. But it only works as a business plan because the tax payer was ‘happy’ to put £35 million in and not get anything in return. There’s absolutely no business case for what they’ve done.
Benjsh
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Tis a fair point.
The owners of Legendia in Poland must often wonder what they have done to deserve being totally neglected compared to Energylandia. I never have quite worked out what it all went to the one park but can only presume Mr Bung and Mr Brown Envelope were involved in the talks somewhere.
Quite a lot of theme parks have had EU funding including a number of British park. IAAPA (the global trade association for theme parks) has a guide on their website for applying for it:
I don't know much about Energylandia's funding or whether or not other Polish theme parks have had EU money. This isn't about the fact Dreamland has had public money per se. It's about the lack of transparency, and what it's been used for. Indeed, Dreamland has had EU funding in the past, and I believe other parks like Oakwood have also had EU money.
I don't know much about Energylandia's funding or whether or not other Polish theme parks have had EU money. This isn't about the fact Dreamland has had public money per se. It's about the lack of transparency, and what it's been used for. Indeed, Dreamland has had EU funding in the past, and I believe other parks like Oakwood have also had EU money.
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I read somewhere that the one park had sucked up nine tenths of all the available funding...because "they were highly skilled in using the application system".
It's not the fact that they have European funding for tourism, I can see the point, it is "chuck it all at the one park" that stinks.
It's not the fact that they have European funding for tourism, I can see the point, it is "chuck it all at the one park" that stinks.
Themepark-newbie
TS Member
Interestingly, two of the rides advertised on the Dreamland website travelled with Carters a couple of seasons ago. The ghost Train & cyclone twist.
What it means is that Dreamland are 'borrowing / renting' rides rather than owning them.