Electric Cars - The Future?

[Rick]

I think the market will react on the back of this news. I'm broadly supportive of it, I hate our general attitude as a society to the environment. The technology will move ahead leaps and bounds in the next 23 years. Imagine mobile phones in 1994 vs. now.

I also hate that our solution to every transport need is a car.

 

[IanSR]

There is no alternative unless you own a helicopter.

But something like this has to be done, the motoring industry is like the banking industry, history tells us they simply cannot be trusted to rregulate themselves.

Formula-E needs to open up battery developement to be more relevant, all the time they use spec batteries the series is nothing more than a marketing platform, Porsche have already paved the way for this, the didn't just decide on a coin toss to enter, they bought up a battery developer recently to lay good foundations for the project.

 

[Rick]

There is no alternative unless you own a helicopter.

There is an alternative, but it's not up to the individual - it's a state thing. Our public transport network is dire. Travel by rail North to South isn't too bad, but East to West is painful.

 

[IanSR]

Yeah true that.

 

[alee298]

Back when they started seriously talking about Electric cards there was a lot of talk about hydrogen cars which run the same as petrol and have a better distance. the only output is water. But it seems like the govt has just decided that electric is the way forward and that's that.

There was also another Idea i saw with electric cars where instead of charging it you go into a little building like a car wash and it changes the battery out - I think this is a much better idea than having to wait for the car to charge

Hydrogen cars + a crash = large explosion, a reason why airships were stopped.
Electric cars seem like a good idea until the charging times and battery capacity come into play, if the technology improves like mobile phones recently have with fast charging options it could work well.
On the other hand, I think electrifying the rail network and improving the reliability of it would be better in the long run for the environment if done well enough to encourage more usage of public transport.

 

[RoyJess]

Haven't phones (and hover boards) been know to go up in flames whilst on charge?

Also as batteries get older, so their holding charge shortens, so the older the battery, the less miles you be able to do on a single charge

23 years away is not very long, the car companies will have less than this as it can take a few years from the drawing board to having a car roll of the production line

 

[Error]

Imagine having to charge up halfway into a trip to AT and it taking at least 30 mins.....Tuck Fhat.

 

[IanSR]

All good points I doubt a minister has ever given a seconds thought to.

 

[Rick]

Haven't phones (and hover boards) been know to go up in flames whilst on charge?

Petrol and diesel are fairly flammable too.

All good points I doubt a minister has ever given a seconds thought to.

They have given this exact thought. The required R&D is very expensive and will be done by private entities, whether it be Tesla, more traditional car makers or technology firms. Pushing the date into play gives incentive for this R&D to be done as it confirms that there will be a return.

The blanket ban on new internal combustion engines by a certain date will force the market to move in terms of developing the technology required for a mass market deployment in a way that it would have happened previously.

If they hadn't done this, the trickle effect would have continued for a long time. Sometimes you need to use the law to force the market in the direction that you want it to go.

 

[IanSR]

You misunderstood what I meant, I doubt ministers have given any thought as to how to charge 30 million cars at the roadside, the practicalities of it all.

MP's don't think for themselves, they rely on the advice of experts, and we all know how that has worked out, all MP's think about is how good a particular decision will make them look, they won't even have considered how you are to make a 300 mile journey in a car that only does 80 miles per charge.

 

[Tim]

... I doubt ministers have given any thought as to how to charge 30 million cars at the roadside...

Personally I think they should ban people from parking on the road side as well. Controversial I know but I miss the days you could drive down a 3 car width wide road without having to weave between parked and oncoming traffic.

Roads are for driving on, driveways are for parking on. If you live at a house with no driveway, garage or designated parking area then you should not be allowed to own a car. Likewise if you've only got 1 parking space you shouldn't have multiple cars at your house.

Further more all new houses should legally have to include a driveway, don't try and pretend the occupants aren't going to want to drive...

I say this because the place that I grew up was purpose built with large driveways and garages. But over time people have converted their garages to extend their house. Trouble is they've kept buying more cars to the point that we once couldn't get a fire engine down their due to parked cars. If you are going to own a car you need to be responsible with it.

[/Off-topic rant]

 

[Rick]

You misunderstood what I meant, I doubt ministers have given any thought as to how to charge 30 million cars at the roadside, the practicalities of it all.

MP's don't think for themselves, they rely on the advice of experts, and we all know how that has worked out, all MP's think about is how good a particular decision will make them look, they won't even have considered how you are to make a 300 mile journey in a car that only does 80 miles per charge.

But that's exactly the point of my post - no one is going to invest in a network of charging services for 30 million vehicles unless the legislation is in place to help force consumers to purchase an electric vehicle. No one is going to invest in the battery technology to get 500+ miles out of a battery unless there is a burgeoning market for the product.

This legislation does this.

 

[IanSR]

Yup I see your point, without the legislation nothing will happen, I said that a few posts ago, but I still think if you ask an MP how they propose to charge all these electric cars, especially in rural locations, they'he going to look at you with glazed eyes.

When they announced this it was one of the first questions asked on BBC breakfast and none of the experts had a clue how it was going to be achieved.

One solution would be to make the batteries hot swappable so you took them indoors at night to charge.

 

[IanSR]

Personally I think they should ban people from parking on the road side as well. Controversial I know but I miss the days you could drive down a 3 car width wide road without having to weave between parked and oncoming traffic.

Roads are for driving on, driveways are for parking on. If you live at a house with no driveway, garage or designated parking area then you should not be allowed to own a car. Likewise if you've only got 1 parking space you shouldn't have multiple cars at your house.

Further more all new houses should legally have to include a driveway, don't try and pretend the occupants aren't going to want to drive...

I say this because the place that I grew up was purpose built with large driveways and garages. But over time people have converted their garages to extend their house. Trouble is they've kept buying more cars to the point that we once couldn't get a fire engine down their due to parked cars. If you are going to own a car you need to be responsible with it.

[/Off-topic rant]

I'd be in that group, so thanks for that lol
I do agree with your overall point though, perhaps limiting each household to one car would be a fairer solution.

My neighbour has four cars for him and his girlfriend, me and the Mrs have one, so I share your frustration at parking problems, we all have to park on the road because none of the 1500 houses/flats in this estate have garages, drives or parking spaces.

 

[Rick]

@IanSR I agree MPs don't know how to solve that problem but I don't think they need to - it's not their role.

MPs voted to proceed with HS2, but the majority of them don't know anything about trains. Ten years ago they voted to the smoking ban legislation through, the market had to enact it in their establishments.

 

[Matt.GC]

23 years ago was a time of carburettors, 4 star fully leaded fuel, 15mpg, no electric or hybrids and the small amount of diesels on the road where slow, rough, smokey and loud.

10 years ago the only electric car is the awful G Whiz, hybrids are still very rare, 4 star is a distant memory and even Unleaded vehicles are being replaced by efficient, quiet, refined and powerful direct injection diesels.

In 23 years ICE technology and alternative means of vehicle propulsion has come an extremely long way and the driving factor is government policy.

If anything, this target is not ambitious enough.
23 years to set up a charging point infrastructure, (most cars will be charged at home on existing mains anyway) and development to get an extra 200-300 miles range out of a battery? 23 years!

 

[IanSR]

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with the ban.

A question though, which Countries are involved in this and when will it happen? I can't see the little old UK making much of a difference to Worldwide emissions if there's only a handful of us doing it.

 

[DiogoJ42]

I guess we can kiss goodbye to cross-continent road trips

 

[IanSR]

You kissed goodbye to that last year.

 

[Tim]

I'd be in that group, so thanks for that lol

Your welcome remember not to vote for me if I run for power.

For the record I know my idea isn't at all practical. For example what would the rule be for friends coming to visit, single night road parking permits?...

But to go with what you were saying about housing estates without parking I do belive it should be a law that housing developers must build new homes with sufficient parking. Driving is too essential for developers to ignore that people will want to drive, as they seem to do with every new house they build near us.

Back on-topic I mostly agree with what Rick has said. Although I think our govenment probably has more important decisions to make at the moment then what we'll be driving in 20 years time. Sorting Brexit would be the main one.