EU Referendum

[DiogoJ42]

Well, the next few years are going to be interesting. They may not be easy, but change never is.

I'm not surprised to see that our lizard overlords are already pushing Boris for PM. He's been groomed for that job for years. Scary as that concept is, can he really be any worse than Dishface?

And for anyone why said they would leave the UK if this was the result... Dover is that way. Close the door on your way out.

 

[bluesonichd]

 

[Danza91]

The UK was not ready for this referendum, it came at least a year too early. The Leave latched onto an emotional driver and people ate it up.

 

[BarryZola]

The UK was not ready for this referendum, it came at least a year too early. The Leave latched onto an emotional driver and people ate it up.

The referendum came when it came. The people who were interested in current affairs and politics in any way were ready to vote and knew where they stood, and voted. If anyone wasn't ready to vote, it was squarely their own fault. No excuses.

 

[delta79]

Well it is done. Now it a matter of where the uk goes from here.
As for the leave campaign and their slogan for the nhs funding. We all know politicians lie

 

[Benzin]

Traditionally though they don't retract their statements 2 hours after the result is announced...

 

[AndrewH]

This is terrible news and doesn't represent the country we should be and are. This is a vote against a lot of the values we hold. We should be working together with our closest neighbours to get the best for everyone and to protect our rights and livelihoods. Instead we have given free reign to a idiotic government who are completely out of touch with the British people and want to do such things as getting rid of our human rights, cutting benefits for poorest and disabled and privatising the NHS. Is that what you really want?

This was a vote for the xenophobe *waits for hate* if you voted out for valid reasons good for you! I respect that. But you can't deny that the only reason the leave camping actually won was because people who are unwilling to certain jobs and have no qualifications think that people coming over and applying for a job that they didn't is "stealing" their job. Immigration is the reason we left and the irony is that the majority of immigration comes from outside the EU and so even when we have control we don't use it. Then there are those who voted out because of turkey joining. That's turkey who have been trying for a decade to join and have met an astonishing 1 out of 48 standerdes to join and even if they get the rest any country (including the U.K.) could veto and they wouldn't get in.

You can see the unease in the value of the pound after the result with resembles oblivion and I feel this country is now digging its self into a hole far deeper, far darker than your worst nightmare. As a 16 year old Scot who was strongly against independence before I find it hard, if there is another referendum, to vote to stay with Britain if we could join the EU.

The worlds eyes were on us and I am quite frankly embarrassed about them seeing us voting for intolerance and against togetherness.

The EU are in no mood for giving us a good deal, and quite frankly can't without half the countries leaving, anyone who thinks they will give us tariff free trade with out free movement of people and/or paying into the EU is quite frankly delusional. In the words of Jonny Vegas we have wanted independence from our parents so moved into the garage. Even if we do get a trade deal we are going to be effected by all of these their policies yet we will get absolutely no say and have no influence this decision is just lunacy.

Also on the topic of 16 year olds voting we definitely deserve a vote I, and the majority of my friends, are far more engaged with current affairs than most over 18s who get the vote and this decision effects us the longest. I guess now I just have to hope a referendum comes before the Tory's wreck all the great things people fought so hard for.

 

[BarryZola]

This is terrible news and doesn't represent the country we should be and are. This is a vote against a lot of the values we hold. We should be working together with our closest neighbours to get the best for everyone and to protect our rights and livelihoods. Instead we have given free reign to a idiotic government who are completely out of touch with the British people and want to do such things as getting rid of our human rights, cutting benefits for poorest and disabled and privatising the NHS. Is that what you really want?

This was a vote for the xenophobe *waits for hate* if you voted out for valid reasons good for you! I respect that. But you can't deny that the only reason the leave camping actually won was because people who are unwilling to certain jobs and have no qualifications think that people coming over and applying for a job that they didn't is "stealing" their job. Immigration is the reason we left and the irony is that the majority of immigration comes from outside the EU and so even when we have control we don't use it. Then there are those who voted out because of turkey joining. That's turkey who have been trying for a decade to join and have met an astonishing 1 out of 48 standerdes to join and even if they get the rest any country (including the U.K.) could veto and they wouldn't get in.

You can see the unease in the value of the pound after the result with resembles oblivion and I feel this country is now digging its self into a hole far deeper, far darker than your worst nightmare. As a 16 year old Scot who was strongly against independence before I find it hard, if there is another referendum, to vote to stay with Britain if we could join the EU.

The worlds eyes were on us and I am quite frankly embarrassed about them seeing us voting for intolerance and against togetherness.

The EU are in no mood for giving us a good deal, and quite frankly can't without half the countries leaving, anyone who thinks they will give us tariff free trade with out free movement of people and/or paying into the EU is quite frankly delusional. In the words of Jonny Vegas we have wanted independence from our parents so moved into the garage. Even if we do get a trade deal we are going to be effected by all of these their policies yet we will get absolutely no say and have no influence this decision is just lunacy.

Also on the topic of 16 year olds voting we definitely deserve a vote I, and the majority of my friends, are far more engaged with current affairs than most over 18s who get the vote and this decision effects us the longest. I guess now I just have to hope a referendum comes before the Tory's wreck all the great things people fought so hard for.

Bye then

 

[Slugjc]

I was a remainer, voted, pleaded with others to do the same. I woke up 5.00 am friday. I felt angry, then i felt shocked, then the worried, then the frustration, then smug after seeing Farage.

Now its Saturday i have thought and spoken to leave/Reamain people and i now know that its time to put personnel feelings aside and start to help build a new Britain.

Already we have seen that the Pound has dropped, and the Bank Of England had to use there emergency pocket money to make sure that it recovred slightly. This is a worry as Britain looks better for trading with a strong Pound behind it. Mr Cameron and whoever takes over need to get the pound sorted ASAP. Which wont happen has the prime minister has more or less said "this is your problem now, ill be dammed if i help you now Mr Johnson/Mr Gove especially with these knives stuck in my back!" It could improve, but will it improve quick enough, as Europe what us gone, out, exited, divorced. and that is understanable. apart from Eurovision they love us/ need us really. Also the quicker we move the less hold they have other us.

The next PM. He/she needs to be strong. The main man is Boris Johnson. Boris is no leader, he is at best a celebraty toff. A man who came to fame by being torn apart on Have I got News for You, then slagging it off in a newspaper article before apologising. Can he negotiate a good deal for Britain, can he keep Scotland and Northern Ireland from splitting. Can he lead a divided country to stand togther during the coming dark days. Even his own Dad (a remainer) has said no. and if reports are true, he wasnt fully behind the Brexit anyway. Which was very clear when you look back.

So what about the promises. Immigration, can we now actually control our Border. This is yet to be seen. Our border will remain open for as long as we are in Europe, but the question is will it remain open after. I think, any deal with Europe will result in the free roam to stay. Asfor outside the EU, will we get the points sytem that doesnt really work in Australia. Time will tell, but im not sure it will come in.

The £350 million.Nobody ever really thought that this would go into the NHS. It was a sheer lie. That was clearly going to be needed to pay the EU money that comes back to various places around Britain. Farmers ETC.

Economy. Even as a remainer i know we can stand on our own 2 feet. But we need a strong pound, already battred and bruised. We have dropped below France in the economy table and against the euro and the doller things are looking shaky. Pensions are at stake and a recession will be looming. we cant look very appealing to other countries. It'll be like selling a nova saying it will turn into a ferrari.

These are my opinions, I love my country i really do. But i think its been sold down the river by Farage and Ukip. The Brexit camp never looked like they knew they would win and now seem to have no plan. They look like they have relied on Cameron staying. There only come back to anything was "They are scaremongering!" They neededto say more, they needed to come back with a plan, not a catchphrase. Is this a racist vote. I would say yes and no to that. Is it a frustrated vote. Yes it is.

Also point out, we have not left yet. And could actually stay in. A referendum is not law, it is a guide. New pm and parliament choose to ignore the result. Re-poll or u-turn without a poll. Slim chance this could happen, but that chance is there. Until article 50 is put into affect, we are in Europe.

 

[Rick]

I voted to remain, but I think the precedent of a second referendum is very dangerous. By virtue of the result, more people who voted got what they wanted, than didn't. It's some kind of faux-democracy to have people vote until they vote the way a particular party or faction wants an electorate to vote.

The EU are massively at fault for the result, not once did they say anything positive about why we should remain. Tusk said it would be "the end of Western political civilisation" and Juncker just on Wednesday said "No more reform, out is out" which I understand is a scare tactic, but both remarks probably served to cement people's opinion of the EU that it cares little for the democratic will of nation states within it and only for its own self.

The best thing the EU could do is come back with an offer stipulating they will allow us to be part of the EU without a federal goal and devolve some power back to Westminster, there are waves of Euroscepticism across Europe, we were the first, but won't be the last. A second referendum where significant and meaningful change is on offer would make sense, but I don't think a repeat of this one is the right thing to do, personally.

I don't think free movement of people is going to go away and suspect we'll end up with a hybrid of the Swiss/Norwegian model, which I think I would support at this stage.

 

[GaryH]

I voted leave, mainly as I dont agree with the bureaucracy and cost of EU membership, and feel that in some ways it has held this country back. With regards migration, yes I had concerns, primarily that I agree that a points based system would favor this country. Yes migration may go up, but it may go up in areas in which the country has demand for, thus benefiting the country, and also migrants who can be assured they are coming to work here in an industry for which they are skilled.

However - what has disgusted me over the past two days has been not only the public display of racism directed to many EU nationals already living and working here, and who have done so for some time, but also the abusive comments from some remain supporters, who have felt that they are above everyone else.

I believe that to some extent, the language and attitude used by the remain camp towards the end of the campaign actually pushed some people to vote leave. While I agree that there are those in the leave camp who voted purely for protest, or with no knowledge of what they were voting for, there were some as well who took a interest in both sides of the argument, and made their mind up in an informed way.

The EU also has a part to play in this decision. Its inability to take on board criticism and its staunch "no" attitude to any member state looking to change something has caused people not just in the UK to question their countries membership of the organisation. The threats from the EU president did, if anything, push people towards leave as his attitude only reinforced the belief that the EU had too much power and influence over us. Indeed, the language used in the past 2 days against the UK has been strong to say the least. Only today the EU President told the UK thats its "divorce" would not be amicable, but it wasnt much of a love affair anyway. Nice to know the UK was so respected in Europe!

However, the attitude currently being shown by Germany has impressed me. Calm, composed, and sensible. Many worry about UK trade with the EU, but lets also not forget that the UK was one of if not the biggest marketplace for many EU countries. They also stand to lose a fortune if they do not also agree favorable trade deals with us. While the language being used by the EU may be strong, it too must also be careful not to bite off the hand that feeds it. Lets not also forget that the UK was the 2nd biggest contributor to the EU behind Germany.

I agree we now have an uncharted road ahead of us. I dont believe a 2nd referendum will happen, doing so would bring the whole concept of democracy into disrepute and probably cause more civil unrest in the country. At the moment people are angry, confused and worried. Everyone, including the EU needs to take a breather and let the dust settle for a moment and take a composed view of the road ahead.

We could focus purely on the negatives, but there are some possible positives too....while the £ has dropped in value, its been lower in the past, quite a few times, so this isnt new. A weaker £ makes our exports cheaper making people buy more of our goods. It also attracts more tourists into the country. House prices may fall which is needed in this country and well overdue so people can at last get on the housing ladder. Interest rates could do with rising slightly so those of us with savings and pensions can at least see some return on investments. At the time I bought my first house interest rates were around 5.4%, which we dealt with at the time, and which meant people with pensions got a decent return for retirement. As for the price of goods going up (imported goods) , we could view this too as a positive and may encourage us to buy more British products.

I respect everyone who voted leave or remain, democracy has spoken, the vote has been cast and thats that. We all have to now focus on rebuilding Britain, not petty name calling, finger pointing and definitely not racism or abuse based on a persons skin colour or country of origin. While I voted for sensible border controls, I certainally did not vote for this.

 

[CGM]

I voted remain and I'm devastated by the result. I've always thought of myself as being a European citizen and I love the fact you can so easily travel, live and work in so many different cultures. Also, I'm almost certain that Scotland will leave the UK if they hold another referendum which would sadden me greatly as I've spent 5 years of my life living in Glasgow.

As a Product Design Engineering graduate, the EU-wide standards and regulations make it very easy to develop products that can be freely traded across the continent without having to worry about local standards organisations or weird mains voltages. Some see this as oppressive EU red tape, but it ultimately saves everyone money because products are designed to one stringent set of standards that are accepted everywhere without tariffs rather than 28 different ones.

I don't think free movement of people is going to go away and suspect we'll end up with a hybrid of the Swiss/Norwegian model, which I think I would support at this stage.

I think that this is the only sensible course of action. Being a Northerner, I am somewhat resentful towards the London-centric nature of the UK and the way that it drains talent and graduates away from other areas. However, it is the driving force behind the UK economy and to hold the city back would be unwise. For London to continue to be the global finance hub it is, it needs the free trade agreements and free movement of people. It would also ensure that large international companies keep their manufacturing bases in the UK, particularly relevant in my area where Siemens are now having second thoughts about expanding their wind turbine operation in Hull.

If that happens and the right cards fall into place, this just might turn out to be better for the UK economy. If direct trade agreements can be made with Asian markets which currently have to go through the centralised EU system, the UK could become a launch pad into the EU for Asian and commonwealth countries.

However, that is a massive if and it involves wading through a period of radical change and uncertainty. We could well end up paying into the EU whilst enjoying far fewer benefits and having no say in any of the law-making processes. If the opportunity came again, I would still vote remain in a heartbeat.

I think the thing that upsets me the most about all this is the message it sends. It shows us to be an insular, intolerant, nationalistic country that would rather shoot itself in the foot than be a part of the global community.

 

[Rick]

I voted remain and I'm devastated by the result. I've always thought of myself as being a European citizen and I love the fact you can so easily travel, live and work in so many different cultures. Also, I'm almost certain that Scotland will leave the UK if they hold another referendum which would sadden me greatly as I've spent 5 years of my life living in Glasgow.

I just don't see how Scotland could be independent any time soon, it just doesn't make any fiscal sense. Not only that, I suspect that if they chase EU membership, that could be even more troublesome. It doesn't appear that they can 'pick up' the UK's membership as their own, not least because we will not have relinquished it for another four years or so, potentially.

I think Gibraltar could be an issue, Scotland is already proving to be an issue. I'm not entirely sure how you fix the Irish border situation unless we sign up to free movement, I just don't see it.

 

[DiogoJ42]

OR......




,.... We could just nuke Brussels....

 

[Benzin]

I'd find it relatively amusing to see the reaction to any of those Leavers who voted purely due to the free movement of people (or them damn immugants) only to find that any trade deals with the EU would come with that as a requirement...

Be a bit awkward really...

Also worrying is how many regions have expressed that they were told explicitly that they would not lose out on their current EU funding after leaving... That £350m a week saving isn't going to stretch that far at this rate, and it shows how much people must've focused on certain issues before their own... Or being stupid a doing a 'protest' vote because 'they didn't think we'd leave'...

The insanely low turnout by under 25s is also a concern and should be looked at for the future generation... Is it down to apathy? Not feeling like voices are heard? Or down to not being educated sufficiently? I don't recall much at my time at school centring around elections...

The venom is coming from both camps as well, neither side has come out of this well... But to see some basic responses to actually well thought out in depth posts is very disappointing to see...

 

[Plastic Person]

I never thought I'd live through a political landscape this thoroughly bonkers. If it were written into a TV drama, you'd give up because it had all gotten a bit too ridiculous. The public have been fed an absolute pack of lies. It took less than 24 hours for two key selling points - control of movement and NHS funding - to unravel. The first is simply not possible, and the latter was completely made up. Yes, politicians lie, but they usually deliver some version of the truth, or at least keep up the conceit at least until the result is confirmed. As for Johnson, it's now clear, he didn't expect this result, and now he, nor anybody else, knows what to do. I try and remain optimistic towards the British public, and 'punch up' towards the right wing media, but seeing people on the news saying, "I voted out, but I didn't want it to actually happen!" or Cornwall voting out, then demanding secured EU funding... Just insane. Good luck, one and all.

The United Kingdom as we know it, is gone. However, I don't think it will be quite as simple as us just packing our bags. I think some sort of 'associate partnership' is what we'll end up with, but it's going to be a tumultuous and financially damaging path that we'll not recover from for decades.

 

[Harv]

I'm really disappointed with the EU's reaction to Brexit. Clearly there are issues that need to be resolved sooner rather than later if the EU wants to survive in the long-term. Euroscepticism is on the rise across the continent and so significant reform is inevitable. Yet instead of responding to Brexit with promises of change, the EU has stubbornly refused to concede any ground whatsoever. Most frustratingly, this is ground that will surely have to be conceded in the coming years anyway, when other nations are cornered into holding referendums.

If a joint statement was issued tomorrow, setting out a more transparent and accountable EU capable of dealing with the migrant crisis and European economic stagnation fairly and effectively, there's no doubt in my mind that Britain would change its mind and we could fix this mess. It's disappointing that in the days following the referendum, our friends haven't fought harder to keep us from leaving. Even the slightest offering of reform would go a long way in Britain right now.

 

[Dar]

If the EU started out negotiations by bending over backwards because of a referendum, everywhere would threaten to hold one unless they got what they want

 

[Rick]

If the EU started out negotiations by bending over backwards because of a referendum, everywhere would threaten to hold one unless they got what they want

I'm not sure they had to bend over backwards, but when the phrase "Stay in and reform" was used religiously by the the remain camp, you would think there would have been some coordination from the EU to show that reform was in fact possible and not the pipe dream many think it was.

The renegotiation achieved close to nothing and it involved two years of Cameron flying around the continent meeting every head of state involved. Imagine if you wanted fundamental change.

 

[Plastic Person]

While I don't believe that Cameron ever thought we'd vote Out, in the event that we have, he's made a brilliant political move. His successor has the responsibility of pulling the trigger on this thing, and it's a rock/hard place situation like no other. Once we go, the magnitude of this will become clear, and we'll likely head into another recession. If a decent deal is wagered otherwise, he or she will be the one who didn't commit to the will of the nation. Either way, there is literally no plan by Remain, who know better than anyone how difficult the EU were going to make this for us. Madness.