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EV Charging at Alton Towers
- Thread starter AT86
- Start date
The real issue with EV chargers at a place like a theme park is that with 99% certainty, a car will block a charger for the entire day. Most guests arrive in the morning & leave in the afternoon / early evening at park-close. Given the remote location of the car parks in relation to the park entrance - particularly at Alton - guests are not going to want to waste 30mins+ of their day to return to the car park and move their car off an EV charger.
Steve74
TS Member
Unless they put them in the express/disabled parking areas and charge extra to park there (as they would be closer to the park entrance)?
So long as they're not blowing the budget on a couple of DC rapid chargers (£35k each) and instead roll out ~50-200 22kW AC points (£1.5k each) to meet demand there will be no blocked charger issues.
evilcod
TS Member
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Exactly this, even 7kW chargers (the same as home chargers) would give upto 56kWh if a car parked up at 10am and left at 6pm. Almost a full charge for most electric cars.
I work in the vehicle telematics and EV transition industry and for day guests, there’s no chance.
No guest is going to leave the park to the move their car when their app says their car is charged, meaning to make this work for day guests, a huge amount of chargers would be needed which would be impossible for the park to install due to their power limitations.
EV chargers would definitely work for guests staying over though. Overnight trickle chargers draw much less from the grid, meaning hotel guests could plug in and get their car charged overnight.
The thought of hundreds of EVs arriving at 10am and leaving at 4pm and their owners expecting a full battery just isn’t going to happen.
No guest is going to leave the park to the move their car when their app says their car is charged, meaning to make this work for day guests, a huge amount of chargers would be needed which would be impossible for the park to install due to their power limitations.
EV chargers would definitely work for guests staying over though. Overnight trickle chargers draw much less from the grid, meaning hotel guests could plug in and get their car charged overnight.
The thought of hundreds of EVs arriving at 10am and leaving at 4pm and their owners expecting a full battery just isn’t going to happen.
James
TS Founding Member
It will be more beneficial to hotel guests, less so day guests. I feel it’s more of a box ticking exercise for Merlin to show they are investing in this area.
My workplace (a hospital) has two EV spaces for over 600 staff. Given most people work 12 hour shifts, they plug their car in and leave it for their whole shift. Similar will happen with theme parks, whoever parks in a space will occupy that for the whole day.
My workplace (a hospital) has two EV spaces for over 600 staff. Given most people work 12 hour shifts, they plug their car in and leave it for their whole shift. Similar will happen with theme parks, whoever parks in a space will occupy that for the whole day.
Craig
TS Administrator
I have similar thoughts in terms of EV charging to park guests without people just chucking their cars in a spot for the whole day. It's hard to incentivise someone to head out of the park when they've paid £150+ as a family of 4 to get on and park on the first place. As EV use grows I don't think that's all that sustainable. It risks causing more complaints from guests than the current complete lack of chargers. At least EV drivers know where they stand at the moment.
There's only a finite amount of infrastructure to support charging at Towers, so it needs a lot more involved thinking than "just add more chargers". If only they had sufficient capacity in the hotels they could've had some sort of offer where people could have a drink, maybe grab some post park grub, quick charge their car to be on their way.
Of course that again comes with limits, so perhaps linking up with some nearby facilities and publicising them as an alternative would be a good idea too? Incentivise people to top up before/after their day at the park instead with some sort of discount/offer?
There's only a finite amount of infrastructure to support charging at Towers, so it needs a lot more involved thinking than "just add more chargers". If only they had sufficient capacity in the hotels they could've had some sort of offer where people could have a drink, maybe grab some post park grub, quick charge their car to be on their way.
Of course that again comes with limits, so perhaps linking up with some nearby facilities and publicising them as an alternative would be a good idea too? Incentivise people to top up before/after their day at the park instead with some sort of discount/offer?
They might have to have a dedicated EV car park where owners leave their keys and pay a premium to park there. Staff then park the cars at an available charger and move them around during the day once charged. Bit out there I accept but not sure how else it would work. Bit like an airport meet and greet but without the erm, meet or the greet lol
NuttySquirrel
TS Member
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Premium priced parking isn't likely to go down too well amongst EV owners who - as they see it - have paid more for a greener vehicle in a bid to help the planet, and are being let down by a government that refuses to invest properly in the needed infrastructure. No, the park needs to make it easy and convenient to use chargers and be seen to encourage EV use, not the other way around.
Slow-speed chargers that charge your vehicle throughout the day you are in the park make by far the most sense. And a pre-book system for a numbered EV space that is yours for the day, but without having to pay extra. Once they're gone they're gone. They will have to keep adding more charge points as EV usage increases though to keep up with demand.
ScottishChris
TS Member
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Merlin being Merlin they will no doubt have pre-bookable "Express EV Parking" with cheap-er 'trickle' ev chargers - all priced at a ridiculous cost.
AT86
TS Member
The press release announcing the installation of these chargers at Merlin sites stated they would be 22kw chargers, a quick google suggests that would charge a car in 1-2 hours.
That does seem a little pointless if as others say most people won’t come back to the car within the day to move them.
I am not familiar with how the charger system works, I assume the app will notify the user once their car is fully charged? Could they not include a ‘penalty’ whereby the user is charged extra if they leave don’t move their car after it has finished charging + a grace period? Say 30-45mins to give them chance to head back to the car?
That does seem a little pointless if as others say most people won’t come back to the car within the day to move them.
I am not familiar with how the charger system works, I assume the app will notify the user once their car is fully charged? Could they not include a ‘penalty’ whereby the user is charged extra if they leave don’t move their car after it has finished charging + a grace period? Say 30-45mins to give them chance to head back to the car?
Craig
TS Administrator
Yup many chargers will start charging overstay fees after a certain period, so that's a possibility. That said, there's probably people who'd just soak up the fee.
Pre book is likely the best way to go on the short term, but I still think in the interim and probably longer term they should be working with other charging locations to encourage charging before and after people arrive at the park too.
I doubt they'll have sufficient electricity infrastructure to cover demand for a good while if ever at the park itself.
AT86
TS Member
The other issue of course is unless people are staying over at the hotels the vast majority of people are arriving somewhere between 10am and 12pm all wanting to get the car on charge and get into the park.
So even if people did charge for a couple of hours and move the car after at say 2pm, very few new cars will be arriving at that point. Meaning anyone already in the park would somehow have to know the space is free and go and move their car etc.
What a faff. Prebooking can address some of that I guess but it’s still a right pain to have to leave the park and re-enter after moving the car.
So even if people did charge for a couple of hours and move the car after at say 2pm, very few new cars will be arriving at that point. Meaning anyone already in the park would somehow have to know the space is free and go and move their car etc.
What a faff. Prebooking can address some of that I guess but it’s still a right pain to have to leave the park and re-enter after moving the car.
Switching cables and moving cars? What a load of faff.
kW capacity is already a solved problem so long as they have enough charging points and employ dynamic load management.
Illustration stolen from: https://evse.com.au/blog/load-management-electric-car-charging/
kW capacity is already a solved problem so long as they have enough charging points and employ dynamic load management.
Illustration stolen from: https://evse.com.au/blog/load-management-electric-car-charging/
Steve74
TS Member
Maybe I'm missing something about the whole EV thing, I don't know and this maybe a bit controversial but part of me thinks if it's this complicated to implement then why bother? Being a petrol car owner, I don't go to Towers or any other destination expecting a petrol pump to be there so I can fill up for my return journey; if I'm low on fuel when I leave home and I know I won't get to my destination or make it back home, I'll fill up on the way. Surely no different for electric cars? Yes I know their range can be significantly less than a tank of petrol but why should EV owners expect to find a charger at their destination? As far as Towers is concerned, almost all drivers will arrive via the M6, M1 or large trunk roads which will have charger stations somewhere along them at the services, so surely they should charge up before they arrive and/or on their way home at these stations?
In my mind, putting EV chargers in destinations like Towers is just giving the government more reasons and excuses not to fund the expansion of the charging network on the roads.
I think the future of EVs should lie in replaceable batteries so you can call into an "electric station" and swap out your flat batteries for fully charged ones and pay for it at that point like you would fuel. Major drawback there is all the car manufacturers would have to collaborate and come up with a standard design of battery pack. But I believe China already have something like this.
In my mind, putting EV chargers in destinations like Towers is just giving the government more reasons and excuses not to fund the expansion of the charging network on the roads.
I think the future of EVs should lie in replaceable batteries so you can call into an "electric station" and swap out your flat batteries for fully charged ones and pay for it at that point like you would fuel. Major drawback there is all the car manufacturers would have to collaborate and come up with a standard design of battery pack. But I believe China already have something like this.
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