Furius Baco - The Debate

[Enter Valhalla]

I'm glad you said that is how poor you think it is, beacuse the point I'm trying to make is that it heavily divides opinion and I have to say I do get annoyed at the way people don't seem to be able to accept that there are many, many people out there who love it, enthusiast or otherwise.

To look at it from another point of view, I hate Air. I find it dull, disinteresting an uncofortable but am willing to accept that I'm n a very small minority. People have told me the reasons why they like Air and I accept that they enjoy it for those reasons.

No matter how many altenative views people hear they are stil going to continue to enjoy a ride. If they enjoy it they enjoy it and they shouldn't need to justify why they do. I've been reading negative opinions of Baco for years and I always question my judgement and think maybe I've got it wrong. However every time I go to the park it's confirmed in my mind just how much I love Baco.

 

[James]

You would be surprised with Air. I know more people that hate it than love it. It's not surprising though that Air is a ride that divides opinion.

I think Baco works a bit similarly to Rita with how its popularity is perceived. With enthusiasts Baco is generally disliked and is rated lowly, however it is popular with the general public and they love it - much like Rita. Funnily enough both Rita and Baco ruin areas that were once quite beautiful without them.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

Funnily enough both Rita and Baco ruin areas that were once quite beautiful without them.

I thought this during construction but since 2007 I've really liked the look of Baco and surrounding areas. It injected some much needed life into the Mediterenea area which was always empty from about 12 till 5 before Baco.

The vineyard and station/ queue line building exterior is just beautiful. As for the ride itself, well the trenches and the mini tunnel do look pretty poor but these are areas we never saw before so I don't think it runined the area.

As for Rita, well it ruined the Ug Land theme, which was actually a themed area which I really liked.

 

[Benzin]

What with the area Baco lives in being an entrance area (and hence, not really needed to be busy all day), did it really need to exist in that area though? (although upon my visit, I walked past Baco for the most part, preferring to spend my time whoring my Express Pass with the B&Ms, only doing Baco twice, plus an aborted attempt to ride it because it broke down)...

At least it gave everyone a wine shop...

 

[Enter Valhalla]

It's not about if the area NEEDS to be busy or not, but it's a better atmosphere when there are alot of people in that area, and it's probably good for the shops too, which used to be empty during the day.

Anyway, I don't think it runined the area at all, it just changed it.

 

[AstroDan]

The fact Intamin haven't sold another in the 8 seasons Baco will have been open come 2014 says it all.

I disagree that it's right to say 'the public love it'. Sure, some will. But when I first went to PA in 2009, with no pre conceptions, the non enthusiasts in the group thought it painful and unpleasant.

And I posted all the launch coasters I prefer to Baco to demonstrate that I am speaking from experience of riding many launch coasters - not just slating it for any old sake. It's also badly operated and has a hideous queueline.

Furius Baco is one of the worst rollercoasters I have been on and that, along with Stampida and El Diablo, is the main reason I don't frequent PortAventura more often.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Alastair]

The fact Intamin haven't sold another in the 8 seasons Baco will have been open come 2014 says it all.

I disagree that it's right to say 'the public love it'. Sure, some will. But when I first went to PA in 2009, with no pre conceptions, the non enthusiasts in the group thought it painful and unpleasant.

And I posted all the launch coasters I prefer to Baco to demonstrate that I am speaking from experience of riding many launch coasters - not just slating it for any old sake. It's also badly operated and has a hideous queueline.

Furius Baco is one of the worst rollercoasters I have been on and that, along with Stampida and El Diablo, is the main reason I don't frequent PortAventura more often.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

I agree - there must be some quantifiable reason why they've failed to sell any more Wing Riders. Given that some people seem to love it and some hate it, I can only conclude it's because Intamin realised themselves that the design was heavily flawed and therefore unsuitable to pursue as a model. Whatever people say, it has unnatural vibration for a coaster so new, vibration and juddering that wasn't meant to be there by design. I can see why people might enjoy that, but it's just not meant to be a feature of a pretty recent steel coaster.

 

[Rob]

Some people may like Baco and that is absolutely fine. We all like rides that others hate. However I don't think you can deny that Baco is ultimately a poor coaster in terms of track and train (I do love the theme and concept behind it). The fact that Intamin have not sold another model shows this. And then to back that up further B&M come along with their variation and it sells like hot bread. So it's not the wing coaster concept that is flawed, it is Intamin's poor model.

 

[Benzin]

The fact Intamin haven't sold another in the 8 seasons Baco will have been open come 2014 says it all.

I disagree that it's right to say 'the public love it'. Sure, some will. But when I first went to PA in 2009, with no pre conceptions, the non enthusiasts in the group thought it painful and unpleasant.

And I posted all the launch coasters I prefer to Baco to demonstrate that I am speaking from experience of riding many launch coasters - not just slating it for any old sake. It's also badly operated and has a hideous queueline.

Furius Baco is one of the worst rollercoasters I have been on and that, along with Stampida and El Diablo, is the main reason I don't frequent PortAventura more often.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

I agree - there must be some quantifiable reason why they've failed to sell any more Wing Riders. Given that some people seem to love it and some hate it, I can only conclude it's because Intamin realised themselves that the design was heavily flawed and therefore unsuitable to pursue as a model. Whatever people say, it has unnatural vibration for a coaster so new, vibration and juddering that wasn't meant to be there by design. I can see why people might enjoy that, but it's just not meant to be a feature of a pretty recent steel coaster.

And I know exactly why this vibration exists (horray for Mechanical Engineering Degrees!)

Basically, the position of the train ABOVE the track is the issue... Notice how the B&M version which is in line with the track has rather minimal vibration (there is still some natural vibration, which is unavoidable in reality), this lack of over the top vibration is purely down to that the train moves in the same axis as the track...

Baco's train being out of sync with the track's horizontal axis means that the vibration that naturally occurs is actually amplified... We know that the further away from the fixed centre you are the level of vibration is larger (again, natural), which is why the outside seat is worse than the inside on Baco (and the outside seats on the B&Ms vibrate more)...

I mean, I've only done one module on Vibration Analysis and it's made me understand why Baco is such a poor ride... It confuses me so greatly that Intamin's seasoned engineers completely didn't realise that this would happen...

 

[Enter Valhalla]

And I posted all the launch coasters I prefer to Baco to demonstrate that I am speaking from experience of riding many launch coasters - not just slating it for any old sake. It's also badly operated and has a hideous queueline.

I wouldn't say it is badly operated. Just because on days when you've been the staff have been slow doesn't mean that's always the case. From my experience it's operated more efficiently than Rita and shifts more people per hour on days when I've visited. What PA also do very well is prove that you don't need a million staff on every ride to keep the queues moving quickly. Baco normally runs on just 4 staff on two trains yet they seem to do a better job of shifting trains than Swarm's team of 10. The reason I use Swarm as an example is because operationally I think the way you can cross Baco's track works much better than the silly division of sides found on B&M wing coasters. How dumb that on Swarm or Raptor groups of 4 have to sit in seperate rows.

As for the queue, well it could be better, but for a cattle pen queue it's no too bad and it's in the shade which is what you need in the 35 degree heat, and whilst I'd mucch rather have an ilustrious queue line snaking its way through tunnels, greenery and waterfalls, at least this queue line, unlike Rita or Stealth's, does have some nice theming elements and is in keeping with the nature o the ride. Furius Baco also has the best themed music of any ride in the world if you ask me ;D

I really can't get enough of that ride. Ever since I left the park 2 weeks ago I've been wanting to get back on it. The launch, the speed, the intensity, the pre-sho, the theming, the surroundings. For me it's just an awesome ride and launch coasters with what could be described as more complex layouts to Baco such as Blue Fire, Incredible Hulk and Rock n' Roller Coaster, and even Rita, just don't match up to Baco's sheer intensity. And as I say, I've yet to find a non ethusiast who has a bad word to say about the ride.

 

[Benzin]

And I posted all the launch coasters I prefer to Baco to demonstrate that I am speaking from experience of riding many launch coasters - not just slating it for any old sake. It's also badly operated and has a hideous queueline.

I wouldn't say it is badly operated. Just because on days when you've been the staff have been slow doesn't mean that's always the case. From my experience it's operated more efficiently than Rita and shifts more people per hour on days when I've visited. What PA also do very well is prove that you don't need a million staff on every ride to keep the queues moving quickly. Baco normally runs on just 4 staff on two trains yet they seem to do a better job of shifting trains than Swarm's team of 10. The reason I use Swarm as an example is because operationally I think the way you can cross Baco's track works much better than the silly division of sides found on B&M wing coasters. How dumb that on Swarm or Raptor groups of 4 have to sit in seperate rows.

I dunno tbh, as this is a common thing on most 2 across row rides anyway, but as the main reasoning for this is to (as in my post above yours) reduce the vibration affect that so ruins Baco as a ride, I'd happily have that as a 'drawback'...

Indeed, when run WELL (Gardaland's is run very well for example), it doesn't matter at all that you go into separate sides of the track...

 

[DiogoJ42]

Baco's trains are double the capacity of standard Intamin launch trains. That's the only reason it gets higher throughput than Rita or Stealth.

 

[simps100]

Whatever people say, it has unnatural vibration for a coaster so new, vibration and juddering that wasn't meant to be there by design. I can see why people might enjoy that, but it's just not meant to be a feature of a pretty recent steel coaster.

Heh could easily say the same about The Smilers un natural shifting of the train in the Cobra!

I dont disagree that Baco is rough and it can give you a headache (My first ride was outside on back row) but it was easily the most intense ride ive been on and i loved it each and every time i rode it, sure it hurt sometimes but its worth it for the thrill i got from it each time.

Id like to see Intamin play with the design to try improve it - if they can manage to get their launch on a ride as smooth as the B&M's wing riders they will be onto a winner IMO.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Intamin? Smooth?
Ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha- Oh wait, you're serious.

 

[Benzin]

Whatever people say, it has unnatural vibration for a coaster so new, vibration and juddering that wasn't meant to be there by design. I can see why people might enjoy that, but it's just not meant to be a feature of a pretty recent steel coaster.

Heh could easily say the same about The Smilers un natural shifting of the train in the Cobra!

That's got a lot more reasoning behind it though (lack of space and from that probably forethought into the design, groundwork issues, poor construction)... Whereas Baco's problems all stem from the train design and nothing else... Bit like their Spinner tbh (which is completely free-spinning throughout and has their god-awful OTSRs, although Tornado also has a stupidly pointless launch of DEATH)...

 

[Alastair]

I think people confuse vibration for intensity on Baco. An easy mistake to make, but it is not even as intense (in terms of acceleration) from the launch as Rita and certainly nowhere near Stealth.

 

[AstroDan]

Sorry, but I flatly refute any suggestion that Furius Baco typically gets a higher hourly throughput than Rita or Stealth.

I doubt Baco gets much over 800, even with 24 seats compared to 20 on Rita/Stealth.

In 2009, Baco was getting 450pph.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Enter Valhalla]

I think people confuse vibration for intensity on Baco. An easy mistake to make, but it is not even as intense (in terms of acceleration) from the launch as Rita and certainly nowhere near Stealth.

Nope, the front row inside seat is actually pretty smoth and it's just as intense as the back row. What I find intense is the sheer acceleration throughout and the sharp corners. The rattling is just a minor annoyance which does not make it more intense at all.

And 450 per hour throughput is very low, I've seen it shift double that easily and it's comendable that they can get the trains dispatched so quickly with just two staff checking bars.

Anyway, I think I've made my thoughts on the ride pretty clear and I would hope that people can accept that the coaster is neither universally hated nor a bad ride, it's just not to everyone's tastes. To say it is a bad ride and treat this statement as unquestionable fact ignores the views of thousands who love the ride. It does seem as though several people just can't seem to be able to accept that many, many people have positive opinions of Baco. It's this bit which I find infuriating.

 

[BigAl]

Furius Baco doesn't really have sharp corners though, really. Intimidator 305, Maverick, Skyrush; now those are rides with sharp corners!

 

[AstroDan]

I think people confuse vibration for intensity on Baco. An easy mistake to make, but it is not even as intense (in terms of acceleration) from the launch as Rita and certainly nowhere near Stealth.

Nope, the front row inside seat is actually pretty smoth and it's just as intense as the back row. What I find intense is the sheer acceleration throughout and the sharp corners. The rattling is just a minor annoyance which does not make it more intense at all.

And 450 per hour throughput is very low, I've seen it shift double that easily and it's comendable that they can get the trains dispatched so quickly with just two staff checking bars.

Anyway, I think I've made my thoughts on the ride pretty clear and I would hope that people can accept that the coaster is neither universally hated nor a bad ride, it's just not to everyone's tastes. To say it is a bad ride and treat this statement as unquestionable fact ignores the views of thousands who love the ride. It does seem as though several people just can't seem to be able to accept that many, many people have positive opinions of Baco. It's this bit which I find infuriating.

I accept your view, but find it hard to believe given how appalling I personally find it.



Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2