General Queue Times Discussion

[Matt.GC]

Would it be theoretically possible within the COVID guidance for Thirteen and Wicker Man to load every row, as opposed to leaving a row in between? Only asking because I know that some other parks abroad are now just loading every row on similar rides; I know Europa Park is (or at least was, prior to the shutdown) loading every row on Wodan, for instance.

I was in Europa late August last year under Covid restrictions and they were indeed loading every row which surprised me. They clearly do have different restrictions in Germany but the core idea behind them remained the same. For instance, queue line distancing was 6ft rather than 2 MTRS, however mask wearing in queue lines was mandatory unlike over here and was actually strictly enforced. I guess their local restrictions deemed it less of a risk to sit people close together on a train for a short period of time than spending a longer period of time together in a queue line. This kind of makes sense when you think about the definition of close contact was described last year as 15 mins or more.

But even loading every row with clearly some of the best ride operations I've seen anywhere in the world (you really have to see it to believe it, it's incredible to watch how much effort they put in the throughputs) Wodan had the consistently highest queues in the park, never going below 45 mins and sitting pretty much all day at 50-55. So for Wickerman to be achieving what it is currently, with fast track, loads of RAP and empty seats, I'd say the ride ops team on WM are doing a pretty decent job! Clearly a world away from what I saw at TP this week.

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[Matt N]

Absolutely; I don’t think the ride teams at Alton Towers could be doing any better right now!

 

[Ethan]

Busy now!

Pretty quiet imo. I'd be very happy with those queues if I was on park

 

[Thameslink Rail]

I decided to look at the Queue Times data for this week compared to the busiest week of April 2019. There actually isn't much difference between the two for most rides. The exceptions are:
Nemesis has significantly larger queues this year because of the air gate problem
Th13teen has significantly larger queues this year because of the capacity problem
Congo River Rapids has significantly shorter queues this year because it's been a lot colder this week than in April 2019.
So in some ways it evens out, the only other big ride that needs to be addressed is Mixtape which is getting quite large queues however many have said this is largely due to poor throughput.

 

[Craig]

I'm gonna be quite blunt here, but it's quite literally impossible and pointless to compare 2019's queues to now and pick out a ride's individual issues and the weather as a comparison. All the indoor attractions are closed, the park contains half the guests and all of the additional restrictions like social distancing.

I'm all for discussing queue times, but as I've said before there's far too many variables in this season for them to be even remotely comparable to previous, pre-pandemic ones.

 

[tayspru]

I’d suspect there probably isn’t “half the guests” on most days though, as the capacity cap as far as I know is based on the parks theoretical capacity rather than how many guests would typically attend on that day (eg weekend vs weekdays vs school holidays) . It’s no good having a capacity cap at 15,000 if the park would only have about 10,000 on a given day normally

 

[Ethan]

I’d suspect there probably isn’t “half the guests” on most days though, as the capacity cap as far as I know is based on the parks theoretical capacity rather than how many guests would typically attend on that day (eg weekend vs weekdays vs school holidays) . It’s no good having a capacity cap at 15,000 if the park would only have about 10,000 on a given day normally

The capacity is 10k currently like last season

 

[tayspru]

The capacity is 10k currently like last season

Pretty useless on days that would normally see half of that, when weekends fill up people are just booking onto weekdays making most days a peak day now

 

[Ethan]

Pretty useless on days that would normally see half of that, when weekends fill up people are just booking onto weekdays making most days a peak day now

Its definitely been busier in 'off peak' periods than pre covid

 

[rob666]

Large numbers of people have no option but to visit on weekends.
There will be more visitors on weekdays due to pent up demand overall...post lockdown.

 

[Matt N]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the park’s capacity during COVID is based off of the maximum capacity of the site as opposed to the amount of guests on a regular day. As such, the number of guests may not end up being too much different to a regular day on some occasions (if the capacity of the park genuinely is 10,000 at the moment, then I don’t think the park often pulled much more than that outside of the very busiest days).

For reference, Alton Towers’ maximum capacity has in the past been cited at 28,000, but the park very rarely gets anywhere even close to this; as I said above, it was only the very busiest days where the park ever even came close to this number even pre-COVID. So in that sense, if the park can get 10,000 guests in now and still be able to accommodate social distancing, then daily guest figures probably won’t end up too much different from a “normal” season so to speak on the vast majority of days.

 

[Craig]

The park will have a number in mind for guests they want on park based on staffing, attraction availability and social distancing considerations, which is substantially lower than the norm for those reasons. What I'm getting at when I'm saying "half the guests" in terms of this weekend though is basically - imagine the park having a delayed opening weekend like they have done. But without any social distancing, MAP restrictions, hotels being open, all attractions being open and having the opening times and weather that we've had. If that were the case, the park would easily be filling the meadows and be in the 22k+ levels in terms of crowd levels after people have been itching to get out for so long.

 

[AstroDan]

I would estimate the park are allowing in between 10 and 11,000 guests currently. I should think this will rise to between 12 and 13,000 once the remaining 7 rides/attractions re-open. Events will also add some capacity in Food & Beverage.

That said, there is no way the park would cope with the above figures unless they maintain opening until at least 7pm, or later. Had the park stuck to its traditional bilge of 5/5.30/6pm closes, then guests would have been leaving last night totally dissatisfied. As it is, with a late close, it's managing. Just about.

 

[Ethan]

I would estimate the park are allowing in between 10 and 11,000 guests currently. I should think this will rise to between 12 and 13,000 once the remaining 7 rides/attractions re-open. Events will also add some capacity in Food & Beverage.

That said, there is no way the park would cope with the above figures unless they maintain opening until at least 7pm, or later. Had the park stuck to its traditional bilge of 5/5.30/6pm closes, then guests would have been leaving last night totally dissatisfied. As it is, with a late close, it's managing. Just about.

I can see your point, but I don't think peoples day would've been ruined if it shut at 5. Still plenty of time to get on rides given that the queues weren't more than an hour, excluding th13teen.

 

[tayspru]

I can see your point, but I don't think peoples day would've been ruined if it shut at 5. Still plenty of time to get on rides given that the queues weren't more than an hour, excluding th13teen.

For most guests there’s nothing satisfying about going from one major attraction to the next without stopping for breaks , drinks, small attractions, food. Longer operating days help but it’s still days mostly spent in miserable slow moving queues

 

[Hew878787]

But there’s nothing more annoying than feeling pressured with how much time you have left.

 

[Ethan]

But there’s nothing more annoying than feeling pressured with how much time you have left.

Well think about anyone going this week only having 10-4!

 

[Craig]

I can see your point, but I don't think peoples day would've been ruined if it shut at 5. Still plenty of time to get on rides given that the queues weren't more than an hour, excluding th13teen.

It takes me a 6 hour round trip to get to towers and head back with little choice for accommodation at present, and that's not a rare travel time for many to Towers. So I get an extra hour at the park compared to my travel time on a 10-5 opening.

If you remove the extra 3 hours of opening, you essentially increase the already high queuing times across the park, as people are then time stressed and they concentrate all their time on park into ride queues. They skip having a quick rest for food/drink and popping into a shop. It then quickly becomes a false economy for the park as people spend less money as they stand in nothing but queues and less revenue is seen from food, drink and merchandise. Not too mention their key metric of guest satisfaction being severely affected. When the weather is as decent as it has been, and the park has the issues they have at the moment causing the slow loading/lower ride capacity then it's absolutely essential that have these 7 or 8 closes when so many are on park.

A 10-4 is annoying, but then again they'll likely have probably a third of the guest numbers they have in a weekend, so the problems above are nowhere near as bad.

 

[Ethan]

It takes me a 6 hour round trip to get to towers and head back with little choice for accommodation at present, and that's not a rare travel time for many to Towers. So I get an extra hour at the park compared to my travel time on a 10-5 opening.

If you remove the extra 3 hours of opening, you essentially increase the already high queuing times across the park, as people are then time stressed and they concentrate all their time on park into ride queues. They skip having a quick rest for food/drink and popping into a shop. It then quickly becomes a false economy for the park as people spend less money as they stand in nothing but queues and less revenue is seen from food, drink and merchandise. Not too mention their key metric of guest satisfaction being severely affected. When the weather is as decent as it has been, and the park has the issues they have at the moment causing the slow loading/lower ride capacity then it's absolutely essential that have these 7 or 8 closes when so many are on park.

A 10-4 is annoying, but then again they'll likely have probably a third of the guest numbers they have in a weekend, so the problems above are nowhere near as bad.

I understand that. I can't really comment as I'm used to just going up there for a couple hours and getting as many rides done in short time as possible. So I'm clearly not thr person to comment on time stresses haha, apologies

 

[Craig]

I mean I'm happy to pop in for a few hours if in in the area, but I think it's important to remember that for the majority of guests Towers is a once or twice a year thing.

For midweek, when those once or twice a year visitors are less likely to visit, a 10-5 (not a 10-4 that's awful) is fine as they're more likely to be your regulars who will come back again and again anyway. A much quieter park means they'll get on far more than your weekend visitors anyway.

You want those once or twice a year guests visiting on a weekend to enjoy themselves and leave with a damn good impression. They're the ones more likely to stay over in future and statistically will spend considerably more money as a visit is seen as an annual treat. They're the ones who'll bump up your average spend per guest far more substantially, which is essential when you're making very little on the off peak midweek days.

Anyway, I'm guilty of veering way off topic here so I'll shut up now