Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

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TomLad

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Nemesis/Dragon Khan
There is a root cause to everything, and failures that are reasonably practicable to avoid are it - otherwise you could say that the cause was the fact that the ride exists.
I get what you mean, but in this case it's still because of the wind+test cars+stall+ride-op/engineer+ whatever else. Take out any one of those and it wouldn't have happened. Without being too pedantic i'd say there are multiple causes to this one.
 

delta79

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Nemesis, Air
They have to look at factors that caused the incident. And look at way of cutting down the chance of it happening again.
 

Tom

TS Member
As Wikipedia so finely puts it:

Commonly, root cause is used to describe the depth in the causal chain where an intervention could reasonably be implemented to improve performance or prevent an undesirable outcome.

The key there is reasonably. Trains are reasonably expected to stall from time to time. It is not reasonable to have a system in place that allows for trains to be released in unsafe circumstances.

The HSE will not be going full throttle on the park having a ride that stalls, they are interested in preventing injury by having procedures in place that the track is sufficiently monitored prior to release.

What you're arguing for is the status quo of a flawed system, but where trains don't stall.

Preventing stalling will be high on the park's list of priorities for PR reasons, but not for safety reasons.
 

TomLad

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Nemesis/Dragon Khan
Well taking Mr Wikipedia into account I'd say the root cause (which allowed for the following chain of events) was that it was an excessively windy day. Oh I'm not saying they don't need improvements, a launch before the batwing would make the ride so much better!
 

ASturge21

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Anything but Thirteen
Well taking Mr Wikipedia into account I'd say the root cause (which allowed for the following chain of events) was that it was an excessively windy day. Oh I'm not saying they don't need improvements, a launch before the batwing would make the ride so much better!
How easy would it be to add a launch before the batwing and would it be done with gerst or another company?
 

Hitch

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An Unnamed Infinity Coaster
Well taking Mr Wikipedia into account I'd say the root cause (which allowed for the following chain of events) was that it was an excessively windy day. Oh I'm not saying they don't need improvements, a launch before the batwing would make the ride so much better!
From what I can see it would be pretty much impossible to fit a launch section to that part of the track, its far too curved for an Infinity Launch LSM to be added, The stalling isnt really an issue anyway, its always done it, it never happens when there are people in the train so I dont see a problem.
 

ASturge21

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Anything but Thirteen
From what I can see it would be pretty much impossible to fit a launch section to that part of the track, its far too curved for an Infinity Launch LSM to be added, The stalling isnt really an issue anyway, its always done it, it never happens when there are people in the train so I dont see a problem.
Is there anywhere before the batwing where a launch would be possible?
 

TomLad

TS Member
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Nemesis/Dragon Khan
How easy would it be to add a launch before the batwing and would it be done with gerst or another company?
From what I can see it would be pretty much impossible to fit a launch section to that part of the track, its far too curved for an Infinity Launch LSM to be added, The stalling isnt really an issue anyway, its always done it, it never happens when there are people in the train so I dont see a problem.
I'm not seriously suggesting they add one :)
 

TomLad

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Nemesis/Dragon Khan
I think a launch would be a very good way of boosting the speed through the batwing and is probably both easier and cheaper than re-profling.
Oh it would be great! However the likelihood of that is pretty slim, unfortunately :(
 

ASturge21

TS Member
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Anything but Thirteen
Totally agree it is unlikely with the track layout but in terms of cost and effectiveness it would be the perfect solution but HSE may find that a launch would make that part of the ride more dangerous in the event of another crash.
 

Tom

TS Member
Postponing operations in excessive wind is perfectly reasonable don't you think?

That wouldn't be an acceptable solution, they need to prove that they only dispatch trains when it is safe to do so. For the avoidance of doubt, Alton Towers saying we will only run it on one train from now on wouldn't be an acceptable solution to the HSE.

As a side note, the ride didn't stall because of wind in any case.
 

TomLad

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Nemesis/Dragon Khan
That wouldn't be an acceptable solution, they need to prove that they only dispatch trains when it is safe to do so. For the avoidance of doubt, Alton Towers saying we will only run it on one train from now on wouldn't be an acceptable solution to the HSE.

As a side note, the ride didn't stall because of wind in any case.
You don't think that the wind played any part at all?
 

TomLad

TS Member
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Nemesis/Dragon Khan
As a side note, the ride didn't stall because of wind in any case.
Just checking a few wind records, 40-50mph gusts from SW/W wouldn't affect it, even in the slightest? An empty train with lower than normal momentum?
 
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