Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

[TomLad]

I can't imagine they'd have HSE over until they'd finished everything, regardless of if they've actually done what required.....correcting....(sorry not sorry).

A well designed ride should not have stalling as a reasonable occurrence, too much track in too little space at the end of the day.

 

[XXBENNXX]

The train stalling in the first place set off the chain of events.

That is the root cause.

If that train had not have stalled none of it would have happened. Manual override happens every single time a ride breaks down. Stalls don't happen on every coaster more than once a day. Manual overrides do.

 

[Jamie G]

You completely missed the point!

I'm sorry bud, but you clearly know nothing about accident investigations.

The fact the train stalled is simply a contributory factor. Yes, if it didn't stall then there would of been no accident, but that's because there wouldn't of been an occupied block to enter!!

The main factor is, for whatever reason, a train was allowed to enter an occupied block.

The fact the train stalled didn't cause the crash, and a train can, and do stall and everyone can get off and be safe.

A train entering an occupied section will equal an accident. Therefore, that's the cause of the accident.

 

[ASturge21]

What people seem to be forgetting is that a stall is a normal part of operations of a coaster and procedures are in place for when a stall occurs but two trains in the same block is not a normal part of operations and that this is the root cause of the crash. Also coasters stall for a variety of reasons but very few stalls actually end up resulting in a crash hence why the stall is not the root cause (look at the other stalls on the smiler did any of them result in a crash? No)

 

[Rob]

The stall was not the route cause of the incident and if we ever get to see the HSE report once it is completed. Althouugh a stall is not normal it is an event that can happen on any coaster in unusual circumstances. The ride system did it's job stopping the train on lift 1, the root cause of the incident was a manual overide of the system allowing two trains in one block.

Yes if it had not have stalled the incident would not have happened. But the same can be said for if the ride was never built, or if Alton Towers did not exist etc.

 

[GaryH]

Going back to the stall though - yes most coasters have a stall consideration in their design, and like others have said, the PMBO can stall in high winds. The Smiler has stalled several times, even before it opened to the public, without any extenuating factors, such as high winds. Whether the different wheels are to blame or not, but surely that would have been taken into account during the design phase. While the stall was not the route cause, I still feel its a design fault of this particular coaster....

 

[RoyJess]

I agree that the stall was not the route cause of the crash, just a contributing factor.

What ever allowed the second car to leave the lift hill whether it's human error or a system failure is the route cause.

It's a bit like for example, you are waiting in your car at a set of traffic lights with the red light showing and someone shunts their car into the back of yours. So was the traffic light the route cause of the accident or was it the driver who shunted into the back of you?

To me it does seems like all the safety features kicked in as they should have done, what happened after that was the route cause.

 

[Graeme]

Well technically, any coaster can stall if the wind speed is high enough.

This thread has just got utterly ridiculous now...I won't be re visiting it, just thought I'd fuel it and walk away!

 

[Hitch]

Plot twist , train didn't stall but got stuck on brake run and the crash happened at the brake run instead.

 

[Leah]

Ill be in the shoutbox when someone's ready to say its open

 

[UserDeleted]

I agree that the stall was not the route cause of the crash, just a contributing factor.

What ever allowed the second car to leave the lift hill whether it's human error or a system failure is the route cause.

It's a bit like for example, you are waiting in your car at a set of traffic lights with the red light showing and someone shunts their car into the back of yours. So was the traffic light the route cause of the accident or was it the driver who shunted into the back of you?

To me it does seems like all the safety features kicked in as they should have done, what happened after that was the route cause.

Tuts ridiculous. That's like saying the same thing but if they were on green would that have made a difference.

 

[micksalt]

Plot twist , train didn't stall but got stuck on brake run and the crash happened at the brake run instead.

This is why I believe the stall cannot be the root cause; eventually you rely on the systems doing their job properly. If a train were to be stopped at the start of the brake run, it's effectively not cleared the section. The brakes have to have the right logic to let that car roll to the front of the brake run to give braking space for the next car.

 

[TomLad]

This is why I believe the stall cannot be the root cause; eventually you rely on the systems doing their job properly. If a train were to be stopped at the start of the brake run, it's effectively not cleared the section. The brakes have to have the right logic to let that car roll to the front of the brake run to give braking space for the next car.

Broken record time, the system did do its job. If it stopped between two blocks then it still hasn't cleared the first block, therefore the system would allow another car (apart from if it's overridden, for obvious reasons).

 

[AndrewH]

Does it really matter what the "root cause" is we all know the first priority will be sorting out the block issue (whether it be human or machanical error) and then possibly the stalling simply for pr purposes. A stall could happen on any coaster from nemesis to blivy if circumstances occurred that allowed it like a damaged wheel or a stray rain poncho. The Smiler must work like all coasters in preventing a collision in this situation (whether it be design fault or unforeseen circumstances) by the block system working this is the only real issue that has to be fixed in the eyes of towers and the HSE anything else done will just be for pr reasons.

 

[micksalt]

the system did do its job

There's a lot of rumour going around about human error, and I appreciate that it is the most likely cause, and I've no reason to doubt you, but I've not seen any concrete evidence to support this yet. Besides, my point was, as Hitch said, the empty train could have just as easily have been on the brake-run. Admittedly, the consequences would have been less severe, because the incoming train would have lost some speed on the brakes leading up to the empty train, but it's fundamentally the same incident.

From a safety perspective, the main reason to prevent a stall is to reduce the frequency that passengers have to be rescued. Work at height carries a risk which can be avoided by not stalling.

 

[TomLad]

There's a lot of rumour going around about human error, and I appreciate that it is the most likely cause, and I've no reason to doubt you, but I've not seen any concrete evidence to support this yet. Besides, my point was, as Hitch said, the empty train could have just as easily have been on the brake-run. Admittedly, the consequences would have been less severe, because the incoming train would have lost some speed on the brakes leading up to the empty train, but it's fundamentally the same incident.

From a safety perspective, the main reason to prevent a stall is to reduce the frequency that passengers have to be rescued. Work at height carries a risk which can be avoided by not stalling.

I think the thing about if a train was on any of the brake runs is that because the main trims are magnetic, an impact at a point where a train could physically stop would be so much slower. Yes, fundamentally the same thing, but probably closer to the 'crash' on sonic a week after.

 

[Dar]

Has any work been spotted on the trims on the air hills? I can't help but think they have been the constant factor between all the stalls!

If the system is measuring the speed on a section too far away then it won't be taking wind speed into account when calculating how many fins to extend, meaning too much speed is scrubbed off.

Just a thought

 

[TomLad]

Has any work been spotted on the trims on the air hills? I can't help but think they have been the constant factor between all the stalls!

If the system is measuring the speed on a section too far away then it won't be taking wind speed into account when calculating how many fins to extend, meaning too much speed is scrubbed off.

Just a thought

Perhaps the anemometers are there for that reason, rather than shutting the ride down. Fresh speculation, how nice that is.

 

[MattyH]

Perhaps the anemometers are there for that reason, rather than shutting the ride down. Fresh speculation, how nice that is.

Well we can expect another 50 pages about this new speculation then...

 

[micksalt]

too much track in too little space

...for too little expense. Too right TomLad!